Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Bluesproverb]

It's strange. Someone refers to a Christian as a red letter Christian, thinking that is a means if delivering an insult.

When the Gospel books containing Jesus words are written in red so to make them stand out as his good news.

And thinking red letter Christian must coincide with liberal, as if to further 'insult" someone, is just....

 

[Inquisitor]

Which "written law"? The one written in our hearts?
Jesus said if we love him we will keep his commands.

If we covet our neighbors new car today it is just as wrong as coveting his oxen centuries ago. Or even today in some parts of the world.

Why are there churches that presume to teach salvation means there are no more rules for right conduct because everything is forgiven , under grace, all the time.
How wrong they are.

Don't tell me your going to get drunk, beat your slaves, kidnap, afflict orphans. Because those types of sins are not mentioned in the ten commandments.

Please don't tell me you can swear, gamble, minimize tax, love the world. Because that's not written in the ten commandments.

How about you tell me what you think love is.

 

[Inquisitor]

It's strange. Someone refers to a Christian as a red letter Christian, thinking that is a means if delivering an insult.

When the Gospel books containing Jesus words are written in red so to make them stand out as his good news.

And thinking red letter Christian must coincide with liberal, as if to further 'insult" someone, is just....

Fact, Jesus was only sent to the Jews. This fact causes an over emphasis on the law of Moses. In that, Jesus was born under the law.

Jesus taught a legal works based theology, simply because, the kingdom was still approaching.

The kingdom arrived after Jesus was crucified.

Once Jesus was crucified the gospel became centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.

A switch from an old covenant to a new covenant.

Everything changed and Paul was the only apostle to explain this change concisely.

 

[Bluesproverb]

How about you give us your definition of what 'love' really means.

Jesus.

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus.

God is love of course.

Now for an amplification of the definition of love please.

Your already ducking and weaving.

 

[Bluesproverb]

Don't tell me your going to get drunk, beat your slaves, kidnap, afflict orphans. Because those types of sins are not mentioned in the ten commandments.

Please don't tell me you can swear, gamble, minimize tax, love the world. Because that's not written in the ten commandments.

How about you tell me what you think love is.

You have no idea.

Those "type of sins" are all addressed by the ten commandments.

 

[Inquisitor]

It's strange. Someone refers to a Christian as a red letter Christian, thinking that is a means if delivering an insult.

When the Gospel books containing Jesus words are written in red so to make them stand out as his good news.

And thinking red letter Christian must coincide with liberal, as if to further 'insult" someone, is just....

You think that is an insult, you should read some of the other posts.

 

[Bluesproverb]

God is love of course.

Now for an amplification of the definition of love please.

Your already ducking and weaving.

I've read why you'd think that.

 

[Inquisitor]

You have no idea.

Those "type of sins" are all addressed by the ten commandments.

No they are not.

You shall not steal.

I cannot see any mention of any other sin except theft in that commandment.

Lend me your glasses.

 

[Bluesproverb]

You think that is an insult, you should read some of the other posts.

Nothing to brag about.

 

[Inquisitor]

I've read why you'd think that.

There is a formal definition given in the scripture and you should know it.

 

[Bluesproverb]

No they are not.

You shall not steal.

I cannot see any mention of any other sin except theft in that commandment.

Lend me your glasses.

I'd prefer someone lend you a new testament so you could present a more studied pose.

 

[Inquisitor]

I'd prefer someone lend you a new testament so you could present a more studied pose.

Are you saying that if you do not steal, then you are seriously loving your neighbor?

 

[Bluesproverb]

Fact, Jesus was only sent to the Jews. This fact causes an over emphasis on the law of Moses. In that, Jesus was born under the law.

Jesus taught a legal works based theology, simply because, the kingdom was still approaching.

The kingdom arrived after Jesus was crucified.

Once Jesus was crucified the gospel became centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.

A switch from an old covenant to a new covenant.

Everything changed and Paul was the only apostle to explain this change concisely.

Good luck with that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
OK, now you are out and out admitting that salvation can be by works.

NO WHERE in the Bible will you find that unbiblical idea.

Eph 2:8,9 is clear; salvation is by grace through faith, and not of works.

You are in conflict with Scripture on several levels.

I'm glad you finally admitted your unbiblical view that salvation can be by works.

So finally you addmid saved have different attitude, any way that I believe

You can't read correctly. I never said that. I said what YOU believe and have admitted.

Now, where are the verses that SAY what you claim? So far, you've provided nothing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Need to remember
Not believe is include
1. Never believe
2. Use to believe but not anymore

you have it exactly BACKWARDS.

The phrase "he has not believed", means "he NEVER believed". Though you may not be that familiar with English.

When a person "has never believed", it means that the person "has NOT believed". Both mean the same thing.

In fact, this proves that once a person HAS believed, they won't be condemned. It is ONLY those who "have not believed" or "has never believed" who will be condemned.

You just hung your own theology.

And there's MORE.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Here we read the EXACT SAME WORDS as found in John 3:18.

So, we have TWO verses that make it totally clear that ONLY those who "have not believed" which means "have never believed" will be condemned.

So the second soil in the parable of the soils is STILL saved, even though he failed to bear fruit. Because he did believe.

So the 2 verses CANNOT apply to him. ONLY those who never believed will be condemned.

So, once again, eternal security is proven from Scripture.

Thanks for bringing up John 3:18.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Hm. How does that work? You also believe that certain sins will UN-save you. Your view is conflicted.

So Paul was conflicted?...

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
(Eph 2:5)

Oops again. That was supposed to be for J123.

 

[crossnote]

Interesting how a gospel based on the gospels generates a works based salvation.

Where as a gospel based on Paul's letters generates a faith based salvation.

Add some further complexity, Jesus promoted the law and magnified the law.

So the end result is a massive gospel, faith, law, legal works, good works, are all required for salvation.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

lol, The giving of the law by Jesus (going to the heart, was to show mankind was unfit to save himself, they needed the truly Obedient One to save them...

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
(Rom 5:19-20)

 

[Phoneman-777]

FreeGrace2 said:
Where does Jesus say, "if you quit believing in Me, I'll quit saving you"?

I asked you a question. Are you capable of an answer, or are you just going to continue to ignore my questions and keep asking yours?

You have a very serious problem.
1. you have NO verses that say what you claim.
2. you believe Matt 24:13 says endurance is required for salvation, in spite of Jesus saying that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.
3. your theology creates a serious contradiction in the Bible.
4. you don't answer any questions.

Those who know the truth CAN answer questions.

You have zero room to talk, pal. I've been asking you to explain why you and the rest of your OSAS crowd deny that the"many" who wind up lost because they allowed their "agape" to turn cold and dead in Matthew 24:12 are saints, when 1 John 5:3 KJV plainly says the "agape" of God is demonstrated by keeping God's law, and Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to.

Yes, still waiting for an answer, but I already know no answer will come. Yes, none of us that God has given to Jesus will be lost IF we choose to remain found in Him instead of allowing iniquity to kill our "agape" cold and dead.

 

[crossnote]

That means our Bibles will be thin and easy to carry. A lot less scripture to read also. Our doctrines will be minimal. Which spells the end of debate in Christianity. A hundred interpretations will collapse.

Wow, your onto something here.

lol, it would also mean a return to Rome with all it's Mysteries, Intermediaries, Superstitions and Work Righteousness. Indulgences anybody?