Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
- Thread starter crossnote
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It should be, for the Papacy is the predicted Antichrist of Bible prophecy, and Protestantism exposed it as such.
"Hereby we do know Him if we keep His commandments." 1 John 2:3 KJV
"Sin is the transgression of the law". 1 John 3:4 KJV
"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and (Jesus) is not in him."
"Because the carnal mind...is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be".
"Hereby we do know that we love the children of God when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2-3 KJV
"Hereby we do know Him if we keep His commandments." 1 John 2:3 KJV
"Sin is the transgression of the law". 1 John 3:4 KJV
"He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and (Jesus) is not in him."
"Because the carnal mind...is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be".
"Hereby we do know that we love the children of God when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2-3 KJV
It's not an exact quote, but if you'd like, I'll find it for you - it's essentially the same.
BTW, quotes that were nothing to find 5+ years ago seem to be disappearing as prophesied polarization of Christians toward either true Protestantism and Catholicism continues.
And, who does Catholicism consider the only credible, true Protestants?
"Reason and common sense demand the one or the other of the two alternatives. Either Protestantism and teh keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."
BTW, quotes that were nothing to find 5+ years ago seem to be disappearing as prophesied polarization of Christians toward either true Protestantism and Catholicism continues.
And, who does Catholicism consider the only credible, true Protestants?
"Reason and common sense demand the one or the other of the two alternatives. Either Protestantism and teh keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."
Did you miss the part where I dealt with your habit of selecting only verses which support your conclusions and ignore verses which shed additional light on the issue which forces the abandonment of said conclusion and consideration of another conclusion?
Yes, I did. You're failing to understand the difference between a shepherd who falls asleep and wakes up to find he's lost sheep to thieves, wolves, disease, etc., and sheep who outrun the shepherd into the wilderness.
Yes, I did. You're failing to understand the difference between a shepherd who falls asleep and wakes up to find he's lost sheep to thieves, wolves, disease, etc., and sheep who outrun the shepherd into the wilderness.
There is a present rest (sabbath)
(Mat 11:28) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
(Mat 11:29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
(Mat 11:30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The rest that is future will be at the redemption of our bodies.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1Co 15:51-57)
(Mat 11:28) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
(Mat 11:29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
(Mat 11:30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The rest that is future will be at the redemption of our bodies.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1Co 15:51-57)
Okay Post..,I think I have irrefutable proof for you, that the Ten Commandments are...shall we say, "Grandfathered", into the New Covenant.
Eternal life was not promised to those under the Law of Moses..correct?
So....Eternal Life was only offered under the New Covenant.
When a man asked Jesus, What he must do to have Eternal life?...The answer Jesus gave him, was by accord of the New Covenant.
His answer...."Keep the Commandments". The Man then asked, "Which ones?" Jesus said unto Him, “‘Thou shalt do no murder; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; honor thy father and thy mother (Matthew 19:18&19)
Jesus gave this man five of the Ten Commandments...to keep.
If he told this man the truth, the Ten Commandments are still in play. If he lied to this man, the Ten Commandments are obviously not part of the New Covenant....for it would show that Jesus sinned.
Now...you must decide, Did Jesus tell him the Truth, or did Jesus bear false witness?
Yes..or No?
Eternal life was not promised to those under the Law of Moses..correct?
So....Eternal Life was only offered under the New Covenant.
When a man asked Jesus, What he must do to have Eternal life?...The answer Jesus gave him, was by accord of the New Covenant.
His answer...."Keep the Commandments". The Man then asked, "Which ones?" Jesus said unto Him, “‘Thou shalt do no murder; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; honor thy father and thy mother (Matthew 19:18&19)
Jesus gave this man five of the Ten Commandments...to keep.
If he told this man the truth, the Ten Commandments are still in play. If he lied to this man, the Ten Commandments are obviously not part of the New Covenant....for it would show that Jesus sinned.
Now...you must decide, Did Jesus tell him the Truth, or did Jesus bear false witness?
Yes..or No?
-
1
- Show all
Paul definitely spoke directly to the Jews and rebuked them. As the verse below states.
Romans 2:23-24
You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.
The letter to the Romans also explains the history of the law and Israel, to the Gentiles.
This is important to understand because Paul is discussing the law and faith. If one assumes that Paul is talking only to the Gentiles, then one would assume naturally. That the Gentiles are under the law, which they are not.
Romans 4:13-15
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, then faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.
If you place the Gentiles under the law, then you are subjecting the Gentiles to the wrath of God.
where there is no law, there also is no violation.
Romans 2:23-24
You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.
The letter to the Romans also explains the history of the law and Israel, to the Gentiles.
This is important to understand because Paul is discussing the law and faith. If one assumes that Paul is talking only to the Gentiles, then one would assume naturally. That the Gentiles are under the law, which they are not.
Romans 4:13-15
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, then faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.
If you place the Gentiles under the law, then you are subjecting the Gentiles to the wrath of God.
where there is no law, there also is no violation.
-
1
- Show all
the man asked "what may i do to inherit eternal life"
is that our faith, that we "do" in order to inherit salvation?
or that we believe?
as i showed you earlier, when Paul says 'the law' he includes the 10 commandments - see Romans 7 again.
Christ did not say to Nicodemus, "God so loved the world that He sent His only Son so that whosoever keeps the 10 commandments shall have eternal life"
He said "He that believes"
Christ did not say to Mary "I AM the Resurrection and the Life; He that keeps the 10 commandments, though he may die, he shall live, and he that lives and keeps the 10 commandments shall never die"
what He said was this:
do you believe this?
if you don't, then so be it.
but if you do -- then clearly Matthew 19 is much more complex than the superficial gloss you presented, and rightly interpreting it is going to take much more discussion.
if we know the gospel, then what He says to this man should smack us like a brick wall! as it did the disciples - because look, what did they say when they saw this? they were amazed, and said who then can be saved??
is that our faith, that we "do" in order to inherit salvation?
or that we believe?
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
(Galatians 3:10-25)
clearly, that we believe.as i showed you earlier, when Paul says 'the law' he includes the 10 commandments - see Romans 7 again.
Christ did not say to Nicodemus, "God so loved the world that He sent His only Son so that whosoever keeps the 10 commandments shall have eternal life"
He said "He that believes"
Christ did not say to Mary "I AM the Resurrection and the Life; He that keeps the 10 commandments, though he may die, he shall live, and he that lives and keeps the 10 commandments shall never die"
what He said was this:
“I AM the Resurrection and the Life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live,
and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
(John 11:25-26)
do you believe this?
if you don't, then so be it.
but if you do -- then clearly Matthew 19 is much more complex than the superficial gloss you presented, and rightly interpreting it is going to take much more discussion.
if we know the gospel, then what He says to this man should smack us like a brick wall! as it did the disciples - because look, what did they say when they saw this? they were amazed, and said who then can be saved??
if by this you mean that i believe Christ is God manifest in the flesh, Who was born of a virgin, gave Himself to be crucified, was resurrected, ascended, presented His blood in the true temple in heaven for the atonement of our sins, and Who will come again to gather His sheep to Himself & then to judge the quick & the dead -- then yes, those are my beliefs.
however if you think that makes me catholic - well, it does in the sense that 'catholic' literally means 'general' - but i am not a member of the RCC by any means, and you have a very perverse idea of what catholics actually believe, as witnessed earlier in this thread by two, both me giving you a link to actual catholic doctrine & by an actual catholic answering your slander.
now that's rich!
a slick televangelist on youtube is what you call "real research" but you dismiss primary sources as fake!
ha!
however if you think that makes me catholic - well, it does in the sense that 'catholic' literally means 'general' - but i am not a member of the RCC by any means, and you have a very perverse idea of what catholics actually believe, as witnessed earlier in this thread by two, both me giving you a link to actual catholic doctrine & by an actual catholic answering your slander.
now that's rich!
a slick televangelist on youtube is what you call "real research" but you dismiss primary sources as fake!
ha!
FreeGrace2 said:
Wrong. We have to consider ONLY the very clearly worded verses. And you guys don't have any.
Since Jesus SAID that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, He made very clear that there are NO CONDITIONS on recipients of eternal life to comply with in order to NOT perish.
Simply on the basis of being given that precious yet free gift, the recipient shall never never never, no not ever, perish.
That is the message from Jesus. Arminians seem to hate that message.
Well, another mysterious post from you. No idea what your point is. And you STILL don't address my points. Why?
Wrong. We have to consider ONLY the very clearly worded verses. And you guys don't have any.
Since Jesus SAID that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, He made very clear that there are NO CONDITIONS on recipients of eternal life to comply with in order to NOT perish.
Simply on the basis of being given that precious yet free gift, the recipient shall never never never, no not ever, perish.
That is the message from Jesus. Arminians seem to hate that message.
Well, another mysterious post from you. No idea what your point is. And you STILL don't address my points. Why?
FreeGrace2 said:
He made very clear that there are NO CONDITIONS on recipients of eternal life to comply with in order to NOT perish.
Why does the teaching of Jesus BOTHER you so much? Why don't you believe what He teaches?
Why are you so AGAINST His teachings?
How about this: do you believe that a person who claims to be saved YET continues to reject what Jesus teaches will go to heaven?
Let's put YOUR own theology to the test, shall we?
He made very clear that there are NO CONDITIONS on recipients of eternal life to comply with in order to NOT perish.
Why does the teaching of Jesus BOTHER you so much? Why don't you believe what He teaches?
Why are you so AGAINST His teachings?
How about this: do you believe that a person who claims to be saved YET continues to reject what Jesus teaches will go to heaven?
Let's put YOUR own theology to the test, shall we?