Not By Works

[posthuman]

in re:

This is the will of the Father who sent Me, ​

that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, ​

but should raise it up at the last day. ​

(John 6:39)​

​

A subjective interpretation of Jesus' prayer referring to them who would "endure to the end"

if God gave only those who will endure to Christ, then no one who belongs to Him will fail to endure - therefore everyone who is saved will always be saved and there is no such thing as losing salvation; there is only never having belonged to Him in the first place.

as much as you clearly despise the assurance of our faith, i did not realize you yourself were OSAS.

interesting.

 

[posthuman]

Checkmate, pal.

this isn't a game, mr. teleperson.

 

[posthuman]

Jesus' prayer referring to them who would "endure to the end"

btw John 6:34-40 is not a prayer. it is Christ making statements of fact.

perhaps you should spend some time getting more familiar with what is actually in the Bible?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So, how does the Greek disprove that OSAS is the very "license" Jude says people in the last days would misuse grace to obtain?

The greek disproves what you said.

And people have been following a licentious gospel since Christ left.

Licentious does not mean license. This is wrong. I proved that to you, yet here you are still rambling

If you're following a God which says outward sinful habits are NOT the evidence of a deceived, lost soul, you're not following the God of the Bible b/c He plainly says in 1 John 2:3-4 KJV "he that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth (Jesus) is not in him."

dude, There will be people in heaven you can swear would be in hell. And people in hell you would swear would be in heaven.

Stop being a fruit inspector. and take care of your own sin..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We don't worry about anybody "stealing" salvation from anyone - our concern is for the OSAS crowd who rejects 1 John 2:3-4 KJV and instead says they know Jesus DESPITE their refusal to keep His commandments, and think their truthful while lying through their teeth in claiming "I know him" while refusing to obey His commandments, and cannot see by their outward action the truth (Jesus) in not inwardly enthroned on their hearts.

this just proves how desperate you are.

Gods people KEEP HIS COMMANDS..

This is what OSAS teaches.

Your slandering people because of your hatred and ignorance of what we teach.

what we teach is NO ONE IS PERFECT. And thus even today. No one can be saved by the law. Because NO one can keep the standard..

those who claim they can water down Gods law.

 

[Grandpa]

Isaiah 66 in the New Jerusalem.

Question: If the first 6 days are for "all thy labor and and all thy work" which was from dawn till dusk after which people collapsed in exhaustion for bed to get ready to do it all over again the next day, and the 7th day was for rest, on which day do you think God was corporately worshiped? Do we really have to ask?

John 4:20-24
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Phoneman-777]

actually, the way posthuman is dismantling your ellen white theology is building his credibility .

you, on the other hand, are getting proved wrong on a regular basis, yet continue to repeat the same debunked theology.

THAT hurts credability.

Instead of pretending EGW invented Conditional Salvationism (it was around long before her) why don't you get busy refuting it?

HERE'S YOUR CHANCE:​

Jesus contrasts the fate of those in Matthew 24:12 with the fate of him in verse 13 who is saved, which means those in verse 13 whose "agape" turns cold (and dead) will be lost. The question we must ask is: Are these "many" Saints or the Wicked?

The evidence proves they can't be the Wicked because "agape" is demonstrated only by happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 3:7 KJV), but the Wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

Nothin but silence from Posthuman and his ilk concerning this line of reasoning - deafening silence. Will you be, too?

 

[Phoneman-777]

seeing that you have a Christless view of sabbath, you clearly have a false view of sabbath.

My position that the weekly Sabbath is a memorial to Christ's creative power is the antithesis of "Christ-less"

 

[gb9]

Instead of pretending EGW invented Conditional Salvationism (it was around long before her) why don't you get busy refuting it?

HERE'S YOUR CHANCE:​

Jesus contrasts the fate of those in Matthew 24:12 with the fate of him in verse 13 who is saved, which means those in verse 13 whose "agape" turns cold (and dead) will be lost. The question we must ask is: Are these "many" Saints or the Wicked?

The evidence proves they can't be the Wicked because "agape" is demonstrated only by happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 3:7 KJV), but the Wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

Nothin but silence from Posthuman and his ilk concerning this line of reasoning - deafening silence. Will you be, too?

ah, i actually forgot this-

you guys use 1st John 3 v7 to point to command keeping for demonstration of salvation.

except, John goes on to say that the commands we are to keep are believe on the name of the Son and love one another.
so, not talking about the Sabbath.

as usual, when it comes to properly interpreting Scripture, you got the wrong number.

 

[Phoneman-777]

oh?

let's pretend KJV doesn't matter, you say?

suddenly jots and tittles don't matter anymore, if they run afoul of your private false doctrines?
scripture is subject to your personal interpretation, rather than your thoughts being subject to scripture?

interesting. i'll make a note of that.

My criticism of your claim that "the sabbath" is singular and thus must refer to the weekly Sabbath and not a yearly feast day sabbath is not an indictment of the KJV, but a refutation of your weak scholarship.

It's as stupid as insisting (as many of you Jesuit Futurists do) that "man of sin" is one single evil Antichrist dude as it is to insist that 2 Timothy 3:17 KJV reference to "man of God" refers to an individual saint.

 

[Phoneman-777]

ha!!

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:​

“So I swore in My wrath,​

‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”​

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”​

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:​

“Today, if you will hear His voice,​

Do not harden your hearts.”​

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.​

(Hebrews 4:1-10)​

​

please pay particular attention to vv. 4-5 where God Himself says the sabbath given in Exodus 16 was a shadow of things to come.

all things are for Christ, by Christ, and of Christ.
the fact you say the ceremonial sabbath rite isn't, makes it a defacto idol in your life.
you place it above Him, calling it distinct from Him yet necessary, precluding and presiding over His salvific work.
i suggest repent, but i know you won't listen to me.

your false gospel salvation is by works, not of faith.
((re-orients back to thread topic))

Your lack of discernment is why you can't see the Sabbath is not a "shadow" of anything: it's a memorial to Christ's creative power.

The Feast Day sabbaths were kept as shadows which pointed to Christ's FUTURE work He would accomplish in the plan of redemption, while the Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment is kept as a memorial to Christ as both our Creator of the foundation of the world, and our Lamb "slain from the foundation of the world".

Got that?

Feast days sabbaths shadows pointed to the future...
weekly Sabbath memorial points to the past.

 

[Phoneman-777]

in re:

This is the will of the Father who sent Me, ​

that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, ​

but should raise it up at the last day. ​

(John 6:39)​

​

if God gave only those who will endure to Christ,

You can't win, so you continue your lying insinuations.

I never said God only gave to Christ those who endure to the end. Your willful ignorance of the truth blinds you to the other verses which qualify this one: Christ will not lose any God has given Him as long as they choose to not be lost - which is why Jesus told us to "abide in the Vine".

Why would Jesus command us to "abide in the Vine" or be cast into the fire if choosing to not abide results in no change in our eternal fate?

 

[Phoneman-777]

this isn't a game, mr. teleperson.

Which is why I work so hard to help you see the light - because hell is real and eternal.

 

[Phoneman-777]

btw John 6:34-40 is not a prayer. it is Christ making statements of fact.

perhaps you should spend some time getting more familiar with what is actually in the Bible?

The same sentiment is found in John 17, is it not? Perhaps you ought to. BTW, didn't Judas start out as an obedient, Holy Spirit filled saint, but ended up overcome with a spirit of theft and was lost?

Oh..so Christ did lose one given Him by God, right? Because He kicked Christ out of his heart.

See, if you don't read one verse and put the Bible down, but continue "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little", you might learn something.

 

[Snacks]

“And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those He has given me, but raise them up at the last day.” ~ Jesus Christ

“Christ will not lose any God has given Him as long as they choose to not be lost.” ~ Phoneman

One of the above statements is God’s Word while the other is heresy. You decide.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The greek disproves what you said.

And people have been following a licentious gospel since Christ left.

Licentious does not mean license. This is wrong. I proved that to you, yet here you are still rambling

dude, There will be people in heaven you can swear would be in hell. And people in hell you would swear would be in heaven.

Stop being a fruit inspector. and take care of your own sin..

sigh...
"Licentious" means "freedom" which is what a license grants the bearer - freedom to practice that for which the unlicensed practitioner will suffer. BTW, the word for "lasciviousness" is also translated "license" and "licentious" in various versions. Split hairs all you want, but Jude was talking about the OSAS crowd turning grace into a License to Sin.

 

[Phoneman-777]

this just proves how desperate you are.

Gods people KEEP HIS COMMANDS..

This is what OSAS teaches.

Your slandering people because of your hatred and ignorance of what we teach.

what we teach is NO ONE IS PERFECT. And thus even today. No one can be saved by the law. Because NO one can keep the standard..

those who claim they can water down Gods law.

yep...another one bites the dust.

Will not ANYONE offer an explanation as to how the "many", whose "agape" turned cold, of Matthew 24:12 can be "the wicked" if "agape" is only demonstrated by happily keeping the commandments of God (1 John 3:7 KJV) yet the wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV)???

 

[Phoneman-777]

John 4:20-24
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

"If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15 KJV
"And why call ye Me Lord Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV

 

[Phoneman-777]

ah, i actually forgot this-

you guys use 1st John 3 v7 to point to command keeping for demonstration of salvation.

except, John goes on to say that the commands we are to keep are believe on the name of the Son and love one another.
so, not talking about the Sabbath.

as usual, when it comes to properly interpreting Scripture, you got the wrong number.

More selective scholarship...let me help you out:

John says we are to love God as well as love one another...

Let's ask JESUS about what it means to love God.."If ye love Me, keep My commandments". And, what are His commandments? The very ones He spoke at Sinai!

"Give ear, O people to MY LAW".
Incline thine ears to the words of MY MOUTH".
(Did Jesus SPEAK the Ten Commandments at Sinai?)
"I will open My mouth in parable..."

BTW, Matthew 13 confirms Jesus fulfilled this OT prophecy of Psalms 78.

Why the flip do you who claim to have a corner of the market on agape fight so hard against demonstrating it...which is happily keeping God's commandments???

Question: do you agree with Compostman that the wicked can demonstrate the agape of God, which is happily keeping His commandments?

 

[Phoneman-777]

“And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those He has given me, but raise them up at the last day.” ~ Jesus Christ

“Christ will not lose any God has given Him as long as they choose to not be lost.” ~ Phoneman

One of the above statements is God’s Word while the other is heresy. You decide.

Snacks, what you preach is heresy.

You never heard of the Unmerciful Servant being fully forgiven but then winds up having that forgiveness revoked?

You never heard of the saints in Hebrews 6 who fall away beyond the ability to renew their repentance?

You never heard of the saints who "escaped the pollutions of this world" but become again entangled therein?

You never heard of the saints who were washed by the blood of the lamb, but return to the filth like the dog to his vomit and the sow to the mire?

You never heard of the "many" saints of Matthew 24 who allow iniquity to turn their agape cold, leaving them unable to endure and lost?

Take notice, brothers and sisters! Don't let surface reading, Scripture-twisting, sin-loving, law haters convince you to get stuck in the Left Ditch of License, but keep in the Path of the Just with the rest of us!