Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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Yep, than bear fruit
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
Good work is not from us, we only bear not produce, Jesus in us produce through us and Christian think we have love because they don't see Jesus in us
We not boasting of good work because we know we not producer
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
Good work is not from us, we only bear not produce, Jesus in us produce through us and Christian think we have love because they don't see Jesus in us
We not boasting of good work because we know we not producer
The use of "fulfilling" and "fulfillment" doesn't change the sentiment - there is a law to be fulfilled by Christians and that is the Ten Commandments, which first four we will fulfill if we love God, and the last six we will fulfill if we love our neighbor. If we love God, we'll keep the first four, and if we love our neighbor, the last six.
Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law, but fulfill, or "to keep" it, not do away with it. Otherwise, we distort Jesus' words into perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements there could ever by: "Think not I am come to destroy the law and the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to do away with". Makes Jesus as confused as the most confused individual on the planet: a white Rastafarian.
Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law, but fulfill, or "to keep" it, not do away with it. Otherwise, we distort Jesus' words into perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements there could ever by: "Think not I am come to destroy the law and the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to do away with". Makes Jesus as confused as the most confused individual on the planet: a white Rastafarian.
The changing of the heart, is, the fulfillment of the Law.
Through the Law, Jesus created a way to change our hearts, for those who obey his commands. This is why he said, He did not come to abolish the Law.
Now, if were were not under the Law.. Jesus would have said...I come to abolish the Law. But, did Jesus say that? No!
The Law of Christ is a New Covenant, not to be confused with the Law of Moses. But I can understand why it's confusing for many. Allow me to explain:
There were two parts of the Law God gave to Moses. Ten Laws of Omission written on stone...AKA the Ten Commandments, and over 600 laws of Commission....Laws which required WORKS.
Under the New Covenant, the 600 Laws of the Old Covenant were done away with, the Law of Moses.
But the Ten Commandments were not, they were carried over as a part of the New Covenant.
When Paul said "We are not under Law"......he was teaching against the Laws of Commission...AKA..Works, the Law of Moses. He was not teaching against keeping the Ten Commandments. To prove this to yourselves, try and find a passage, where Paul teaches against the Keeping of the Ten Commandments. This teaching does not exist.
Now.....try and find where he teaches against the 600 Laws of commission, and you will find him teaching against these Laws. Just read the book of Acts. This is what caused the dispute between Peter and Paul.
Many people, understandably, mistakenly call the Ten Commandments the Law of Moses. The Ten Commandments were in place, long before God ever wrote them in stone and gave them to Moses.
So this notion that we can Kill, lie, steal, commit adultery...etc, is just foolishness. Now I don't expect you to believe me, but think on this for a moment, THINK.....as to why most of us will be condemned.
In Revelation, you will see the condemned, are people who broke the Ten Commandments. Now honestly, if Jesus did away with the Ten Commandments, Why would God condemn the people who break them?
Ahh...the Catholic Church...great discussion. They took the reins of the Church...right from the get go.
The Spirit taught me about it some years ago...and the Bible backs what I learned.
Those Pharisees converts we read about in Acts...they created what we call the Catholic Church.
Wannabe priests, and with the New Covenant they saw their chance. That's why they still dress today, as the Levites did back then. Again, don't expect anyone to believe me...just throwing it out there for those who have wondered why they dress so..
The Spirit taught me about it some years ago...and the Bible backs what I learned.
Those Pharisees converts we read about in Acts...they created what we call the Catholic Church.
Wannabe priests, and with the New Covenant they saw their chance. That's why they still dress today, as the Levites did back then. Again, don't expect anyone to believe me...just throwing it out there for those who have wondered why they dress so..
No, Jesus destroyed the OSNAS heresy with John 5:24 and 10:28.
5:24 teaches that eternal life is POSSESSED WHEN a person believes in Christ.
10:28 teaches that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
So OSNAS is simply a failed attempt to contradict Jesus.
Your 2 sentences here are in CONFLICT. The first sentence expresses a lifestyle. To "surrender" MEANS a different lifestyle.
The second sentence is simply what the first sentence is about. A changed lifestyle.
Those who think they are saved by a change in lifestyle, the Bible says they are NOT saved.
Because it is heresy and is in direct conflict with Jesus' own words in John 5:24 and 10:28.
This is nonsense. What we know to be true is that NO ONE can fulfill the law perfectly. iow, there is NO perfect obedience.
Why not? Because all believers still have their human sinful natures and will sin. Which is why John wrote 1 John 1:8-10.
Further, the Bible is full of commands FOR obedience. Your view seems to be obedience is automatic for a believer. If that were true, there would be no need for any such commands. Bet you didn't think that one through, didja?
Tired old saw. Nonsense again. The "license" to sin comes from our human nature.
Even Paul struggled with his own sin nature and he described his struggles in Romans 7 and Gal 5:17.
Your views are beyond naive and reveals a serious lack of understanding the Bible.
5:24 teaches that eternal life is POSSESSED WHEN a person believes in Christ.
10:28 teaches that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
So OSNAS is simply a failed attempt to contradict Jesus.
Your 2 sentences here are in CONFLICT. The first sentence expresses a lifestyle. To "surrender" MEANS a different lifestyle.
The second sentence is simply what the first sentence is about. A changed lifestyle.
Those who think they are saved by a change in lifestyle, the Bible says they are NOT saved.
Because it is heresy and is in direct conflict with Jesus' own words in John 5:24 and 10:28.
This is nonsense. What we know to be true is that NO ONE can fulfill the law perfectly. iow, there is NO perfect obedience.
Why not? Because all believers still have their human sinful natures and will sin. Which is why John wrote 1 John 1:8-10.
Further, the Bible is full of commands FOR obedience. Your view seems to be obedience is automatic for a believer. If that were true, there would be no need for any such commands. Bet you didn't think that one through, didja?
Tired old saw. Nonsense again. The "license" to sin comes from our human nature.
Even Paul struggled with his own sin nature and he described his struggles in Romans 7 and Gal 5:17.
Your views are beyond naive and reveals a serious lack of understanding the Bible.
abide in Jesus than you bear fruit without Jesus you can't do nothing
What is mean
Salvation not by your work, by faith or abide in Jesus than the fruit ps or good work appear from you not by you but by Jesus the more you give Jesus room in your heart the mother you become like Zhou, loving work out from you by Jesus in youu
The more you give room to the devil the more you become like, killing robbing etc out from you by the devil in you
You not give room to Jesus, will like branch without fruit and will be cut thrown into fire
What is mean
Salvation not by your work, by faith or abide in Jesus than the fruit ps or good work appear from you not by you but by Jesus the more you give Jesus room in your heart the mother you become like Zhou, loving work out from you by Jesus in youu
The more you give room to the devil the more you become like, killing robbing etc out from you by the devil in you
You not give room to Jesus, will like branch without fruit and will be cut thrown into fire
This is a very naive statement. Every person is "at liberty" to choose whatever is possible to do. Just read Romans 6, and especially v.16.
This clearly demonstrates the extreme confusion of the OSNAS-ers. Salvation grants deliverance from the lake of fire.
It sure doesn't grant freedom to "break the 10 commandments". The freedom to choose whether to do that or not is explained in Romans 6:16. It's a choice that everyone has.
Again, this so-called "license to sin" comes from your own soul. James 1:12-15.
And finally, it is quite apparent that you are totally unfamiliar with what Paul wrote:
Rom 3-
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. iow, no one can fulfill the Law. Only Christ did that.
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Those who claim sinlessness are woefully ignorant of these verses and Rom 6 and 7.
This clearly demonstrates the extreme confusion of the OSNAS-ers. Salvation grants deliverance from the lake of fire.
It sure doesn't grant freedom to "break the 10 commandments". The freedom to choose whether to do that or not is explained in Romans 6:16. It's a choice that everyone has.
Again, this so-called "license to sin" comes from your own soul. James 1:12-15.
And finally, it is quite apparent that you are totally unfamiliar with what Paul wrote:
Rom 3-
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. iow, no one can fulfill the Law. Only Christ did that.
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Those who claim sinlessness are woefully ignorant of these verses and Rom 6 and 7.
FreeGrace2 said:
Obviously Bible verses do not lie. But the one you keep reading doesn't mean what you
I'm sure you really meant "keep sinning". What a reckless comment!! Shame.
Do you think eternal security means there will be no consequences for sin??? Then you are simply very ignorant of Scripture.
God's divine discipline is PAINFUL according to Heb 12:11. And David wrote about his own painful discipline in Psa 38. Please read it and understand what the disobedient child of God will face.
The words "thrown into the fire" is an idiom which means discarded and unusable. For a 1st Century Jew, that was a horrible thought.
They were very proud that they were God's CHOSEN people. The idea that God would set aside or discard His people was shocking.
No offense, but your posts suggest that English isn't your native language. If not, what is your native language?
I suspect you have having difficulty understanding idioms, figures of speech and metaphors.
Obviously Bible verses do not lie. But the one you keep reading doesn't mean what you
I'm sure you really meant "keep sinning". What a reckless comment!! Shame.
Do you think eternal security means there will be no consequences for sin??? Then you are simply very ignorant of Scripture.
God's divine discipline is PAINFUL according to Heb 12:11. And David wrote about his own painful discipline in Psa 38. Please read it and understand what the disobedient child of God will face.
The words "thrown into the fire" is an idiom which means discarded and unusable. For a 1st Century Jew, that was a horrible thought.
They were very proud that they were God's CHOSEN people. The idea that God would set aside or discard His people was shocking.
No offense, but your posts suggest that English isn't your native language. If not, what is your native language?
I suspect you have having difficulty understanding idioms, figures of speech and metaphors.
FreeGrace2 said:
I don't believe any verse contradicts any other verse. I've shown you verses that PLAINLY say the opposite of what you claim.
Sorry, but this sentence doesn't make sense. Could you please re-phrase or check spelling or whatever?
I don't believe any verse contradicts any other verse. I've shown you verses that PLAINLY say the opposite of what you claim.
Sorry, but this sentence doesn't make sense. Could you please re-phrase or check spelling or whatever?