"If You Want to Have Sex, Get Married." Ok. But What If You Want to Have Sex, and You're ALREADY Married?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

This is going to be an even longer post that what I normally write, so if you can, stick with me for a while. It's going to be so long, in fact, that apparently it's too long for the system and I am going to have to break it up into two posts, so here we go.

A friend shared this post from a Christian wife who gave this advice to singles:

"Singleness is not a gift. Celibacy is. If you have no sex drive, you have the gift of celibacy and can choose to remain single for the Lord and His work. If you have a sex drive, get married; for it is better to marry than to burn. Most people don't have the gift of celibacy."

I'm a woman who has been single for a very long time (about 20 years,) and like most Christian singles, have been given the "for it is better to marry than to burn with passion" (1 Corinthians 7:9) so often that I'm sure if we counted them all up and got a dollar for each time, we could probably all retire.

Please note that i am NOT AT ALL trying to refute what the Bible says. Rather, I am always troubled as to why we are given such an incomplete answer.

My immediate reaction after reading this married woman's advice was:

1. "If you have a sex drive, get married." This makes marriage sound like a bag of potato chips you simply pick out and just throw into your cart at the grocery store and go home. Singles are told to get married as the supposed quick, easy solution to a sex drive, and yet at the same time, we are also told that we must be ever so careful in choosing a marriage partner. It gives off a very conflicting message: "Get married. Simple as that. But wait, hold your horses! Don't rush into anything! Take your time! Wait for God to direct your steps!" And I'm certainly not saying this isn't Godly advice.

But the thing is, single people are pretty much told to hurry up and get married before they sin. And on the other hand, if anything goes wrong, they will then immediately be blamed for not being prayerful or particular enough and choosing the wrong person.

2. Again, I'm not trying to say that this advice is somehow not Biblical. It most certainly is. BUT, it gets recited as of it's on auto tune in every Christian circle while at the same time completely ignoring that:

A. A plethora of Christian marriages are broken because of porn and sex addictions. Apparently, marriage doesn't cure this, but no one tells us how to prevent it or even talks about it until the marriage is crumbling or already destroyed. But yet, marriage is somehow the ultimate answer to a sex drive.

B. If I could get away with it (but I won't even try out of respect for this site and the fact that we have young people here,) I would love to make a poll asking married people if they're having the fantasy sex, as often as they want, in the exact ways they wanted when they were single and dreaming of having a spouse and "spiritually legal" way to have sex.

And if it isn't everything they thought it would be, how close is it? Or not? Because if this is the case, I'm hoping for and expecting married people to also tell singles how to buckle up for the truth: that there will be a lot of disappointment, and, after committing, you are going to have to learn to find the continues grace to deal with that for the rest of your life.

C. Simplistic statements like this ignore the plight of single parents and those who are divorced and widowed. Is it to be expected that a divorced or widowed person, or even someone who has sinned but repented and is now waiting again for marriage can somehow automatically erase their sex drive? Because these factors often make the search even more complicated, and it can't be dismissed by saying, "You don't have the gift of singleness if you have a sex drive." Why is it that so many fail to realize that singleness in itself is often a condition that is not chosen by that person?

This is why I personally don't buy that "not having a sex drive" is the only qualification for a life of singleness. I think there are plenty of Christian singles -- at least, I think I've met some of them -- who do indeed have one, but since they haven't met the right person, are able to set it aside for the life God currently has for them. And some people, not all, but some, are able to do that for a lifetime.

Likewise, what about married people who don't have a sex drive? Because there are people in marriages who don't have or lost their sex drive, and I would guess it's not making for a very happy marriage.

If singles are always spoken to like idiots and told to just get married (as if we can't think of that ourselves,) why aren't the married people who give us that advice, like this particular woman, talking about what happens when people who WANT to have sex -- but ARE ALREADY MARRIED -- but sex is not available to them. How are they coping and what are they doing to learn to live with it?

I am certainly no expert in anything in this life, but I've spent about 20 years being single and following, living with, or close by older married (or widowed) relatives. After spending so much time around those who are my parents' and grandparents' ages, I've seen a lot of things that have affected or just plain killed off many married couple's sex drives (but usually just for one person at a time,) such as:

* Pregnancy; caring for kids; miscarriage; losing a child.

* Loss of sex drive or loss of ability to have sex due to medical conditions like cancer, dementia, surgeries, etc. I've also read several articles and watched documentaries about younger and younger men losing some of their physical ability to have sex and having to rely on Viagra as early as in their 20's and 30's -- which is both expensive and detrimental to their health.

* Loss of interest in a marriage partner for sex due to porn, or a desire for things their spouse doesn't like that was discovered through porn.

* Growing apart over time and no longer thinking of their spouse in a romantic way.

* Some couples aren't even living together anymore because of medical conditions -- for example, one spouse has to live in a nursing home.

And it has also been my observation that most times, it's just one person who loses their sex drive at a time, leaving the other one very wanting and feeling very neglected. But they're married. So what do they do now? How do they learn to live with this? And why aren't singles told the truth -- that marriage does not equal getting a lifelong, steady availability of sex, so get used to going without it -- even you've done the exact thing you were told to do.

(Continued

 

[seoulsearch]

(Continued from Post #1

Now I know some people will say, "But Seoul, that only happens when people are old and don't have a sex drive anyway." But I would beg to differ. The communities I lived near had very active senior populations (55+) and message boards. I read some of the articles and conversations, and while they weren't Christian-based, they WERE very honest, and talked about how many older people were finding dating and sex to be even more exciting now because their kids were out of the house (no worries about someone walking in on them,) there was no longer any worry of pregnancy, and some people had more disposable income and free time to spend with a partner.

The point is, our culture might see us as dried up hags or old geezers by age 27, the but reality is far from that. One of the senior communities I lived near had a local "hookup" bar and restaurant, and there was a running joke about "the golf cart ride of shame" some took back home after spending the night with their latest catch.

If it's supposedly so easy for singles with a sex drive to find a spouse, then what happens? Are the porn addictions automatically cured? Is everybody getting all the adventure, fun, and romance they ever dreamed of?

Having spent a little bit of time on both sides of the fence (I was once married, but my husband left for someone else,) I would have to answer with a big, fat, resounding NO. And from the conversations we've seen on CC over the years, I think most married people would agree. But why doesn't anyone talk about the realities of this?

If so many people want to tell us singles how to solve the problem of our sex drives, why is no one talking about the times when married people want to have sex, too -- but are unable to, and yet, they are married? What do they do? How do they deal with it?

We singles need THOSE answers too, or else the readily given advice becomes useless. Even if we do get married, many are going to need some useful information about how to deal with, "Ok, I'm Married. AND I STILL CAN'T HAVE SEX. NOW what do I do?" because chances are, it's going to happen at some time. Even if both people remain blessedly healthy all their lives, God usually does not call both spouses home at the same time.

Please note that I am NOT at all trying to criticize married people, nor am I trying to turn this into a Married Vs. Singles boxing match. I am IMMENSELY GRATEFUL to the compassionate, loving married people I have known, and who are willing to hang around us here in Singles. But unfortunately for us singles, some married people are not that understanding.

Thank you for allowing me to vent my frustration at always being given such generic advice with no real substance behind it.

And for every married person who tells me if I'm struggling with sex, just get married, I would like to ask them about the following scenario:

I would tell them, "Let's say that your spouse is going to be unable, unwilling, and unavailable to have sex with you for the next 20 years. They are not going to show any interest in you, will not respond to your desires, and there will be no other outlet in any other form available to you. What are you going to do?"

Because that's actually a very realistic scenario that many married people find themselves in. And I would guess that no one really knows until they are smack-dab in the middle of it.

You're probably wondering how I would answer myself. I certainly can't say that I would take the news very calmly, especially after waiting for so long. I'm sure I would cry and scream for a long time, asking God why it had to be that way. But then God would eventually remind me of the nearly 20 years He's brought me through without a romantic partner, and He would probably say, 'I've prepared you for this. My grace is sufficient for you -- now get up and serve your husband.'"

Would I be joyful? Would I be grateful? I most certainly would not be so at first. But then I would realize that THIS is the power of what God has taught me through all these long lonely years, and I would ask God to please help me carry out the task that had been set before me, because I made the commitment to Him to do so. And then I would try my messy, imperfect best to implement my very shaky, unsure walk, relying on God more than ever.

THESE are the kinds of things I wish married people would talk to us about when they tell us to get married.

Don't just give me the shortcut pat answers, the Cliff's notes, the things that everyone expects good Christians to say. I want to know the truth, and most importantly, how God gets you through it.

So what is the point of this thread? Usually I have a clear topic and discussion questions for the reader to ponder answer. Today, I'm not expecting people to spill out the most personal aspects of their lives. Rather...

* I think what I would really like to ask people is: Whether you are single or married, were you given answers that you felt were too simplistic and didn't really address your real issues? How did you respond?

* Did you have unrealistic expectations because of what others told you? How did you learn to adjust to reality?

* What words of wisdom would you give to others to try to prevent them from falling into the same trap?

* What do you wish people would have REALLY told you, or would really talk about?

I do understand that my posts are very long (ironically though, many times there will be people who say I write way too much, but then will write their own answers or multiple posts that are just as long or longer, but won't read my full post, lol. There's nothing wrong with that, and I certainly don't expect people to read everything I write, but when someone writes just as much and apparently wants people to read what they wrote, it always makes me chuckle.)

Anyways, one of the reasons I put this all out there is because I am betting that I'm not the only one who feels this way (at least I hope not,) and I'm looking forward to hearing your answers.

 

[Lynx]

I can only answer for myself, but... Hmm... How graphic can I get on this forum?

1. If I get married just to have sex, I have gotten married for the wrong reason. That's like buying a jumbo jet just to get the free packs of peanuts.

2. If I marry my lady love and then she refuses me sex for selfish reasons, I have chosen the wrong woman.

3. If I marry my lady love and she becomes unable to have sex for medical reasons, I can always masturbate and still be happy with my lady love.

4. If I become unable to have sex, I hope she will just be happy if I wield a vibrator instead. If I pick the right one, she will still love me.

5. If (all the conditions in four) and she is not content, I have picked the wrong one and I should just let her go if she wants to go.

 

[Lynx]

I mean really... If sex is really as important as some people seem to think it is, a valid reason for choosing to marry and choosing to divorce, then not only have I got it wrong about why I should marry but the Bible has it all wrong too.

I just hope that either I won't run into this problem after I marry, or I will have the good fortune to choose a woman who values sex the same way I do.

 

[seoulsearch]

I can only answer for myself, but... Hmm... How graphic can I get on this forum?

1. If I get married just to have sex, I have gotten married for the wrong reason. That's like buying a jumbo jet just to get the free packs of peanuts.

2. If I marry my lady love and then she refuses me sex for selfish reasons, I have chosen the wrong woman.

3. If I marry my lady love and she becomes unable to have sex for medical reasons, I can always masturbate and still be happy with my lady love.

4. If I become unable to have sex, I hope she will just be happy if I wield a vibrator instead. If I pick the right one, she will still love me.

5. If (all the conditions in four) and she is not content, I have picked the wrong one and I should just let her go if she wants to go.

I appreciate this extremely honest answer, Lynx.

These are the kinds of things I wish Christians could talk about and work through together (giving each other tips and encouragement along the way.)

It's funny because I was reading your answers and I know the conservative Lutheran background I came from would say, "Nope, nope, nope. That's not allowed, that's not allowed, and that MOST CERTAINLY isn't allowed in marriage."

And it's for that very reason why I like talking about the things no one else seems to talk about. At the same time, I don't want to offend the administration on the site or be seen as inappropriate for any younger members here.

But I am very, very grateful to those who are willing to make themselves vulnerable for the sake of a discussion that might help others.

Thank you again for being so open.

 

[Lynx]

I appreciate this extremely honest answer, Lynx.

These are the kinds of things I wish Christians could talk about and work through together (giving each other tips and encouragement along the way.)

It's funny because I was reading your answers and I know the conservative Lutheran background I came from would say, "Nope, nope, nope. That's not allowed, that's not allowed, and that MOST CERTAINLY isn't allowed in marriage."

And it's for that very reason why I like talking about the things no one else seems to talk about. At the same time, I don't want to offend the administration on the site or be seen as inappropriate for any younger members here.

But I am very, very grateful to those who are willing to make themselves vulnerable for the sake of a discussion that might help others.

Thank you again for being so open.

Wait, what? Which part would be against a Lutheran background?

At my Pentecostal church we believe in Jesus, miracles, all that, but we also openly admit that life happens and sometimes life can really suck.

 

[seoulsearch]

Wait, what? Which part would be against a Lutheran background?

At my Pentecostal church we believe in Jesus, miracles, all that, but we also openly admit that life happens and sometimes life can really suck.

I don't want this to become graphic enough to offend (though of course the mods are free to edit anything said,) but I am almost 100% certain that my childhood church would have been against the alternatives you are suggesting (actions without a partner, or actions with an added device.)

I could be wrong, but I went to WELS Lutheran schools K-graduation and nothing's going to push the buttons more than a group of hormone-ridden teenagers in a Christian school, and we were pretty much told there is only one solution -- man, woman, marriage.

All 3 together, with nothing added and nothing taken away (I could be wrong about the solo trips within marriage, but that was the impression I got -- that it had to be you and your spouse always, and in all ways, and only that.)

Lol.

I have to laugh at this because it's a great example of the exact irony I'm trying to point out.

I don't really know the answers because... No one ever talked about it.

They were too busy telling us not to do anything and to just get married instead.

As I've gotten older, I've had younger singles ask me these questions and I'm sad to say that I don't know what to tell them, because I've never heard it clearly taught.

 

[cinder]

Seems to me that those telling singles they just need to get married are the same people who tell struggling couples that if they were better Christians then they wouldn't have all those struggles. They just need to obey God and love Jesus and their spouse more and everything will be fine.

 

[Lanolin]

Oh my goodness
I was going to start a topic called Celibacy the last taboo

but you bet me to it.
Yes celibacy is a gift sadly many singles dont have, or never thought about, or dont have the tools to navigate.

I think you need to ask God on that one and He will guide you to it.

As for teenagers and hormones. Well. I went to a co ed public school. Nobody was humping everyone they saw.
Apparently the most horny teens actually went to single sex schools! lol

One of my christian friends in high school (I was not a christian then) was obssessed with finding love and having a family and marrying young. She was even prepared to go out with an athiest. The rest of us were like meh if it happens it happens, we wanted to do stuff with our lives first.

Yes teens had sex though girls were worried about pregancy and AIDs. this was the after the whole campaign to have 'safe sex'. Girls got taught we were in charge of our own bodies and not to give ourselves away, if we did, it was our own choice.

I dont know if the boys were told a different message.

The one thing girls werent really told was whether sex was good or bad. It could be great or it could be a disappointment, sex was not necessarily love. Many girls wanted only to have sex with boys that loved them, but we wernt stupid enough to think that was going to be always the case. Many times sex was just this gross thing you did with a boy and could potentially catch germs from or something you did if you really wanted to make babies. You might be surprised that some girls actually DID want babies.

Others had to go on brith control when they got sexually active. If you want the doctors to know all your business, just have sex.

 

[Mel85]

Hey Seoul. I can’t believe I read all of your post this early in the morning here lol but you raise some really good and valid points

To keep my reply short, I’ve copied and pasted your qs over:

Whether you are single or married, were you given answers that you felt were too simplistic and didn't really address your real issues? How did you respond?
To be honest, this is an area I’m still trying to figure out. Over the years I’ve been given a whole bunch of advice/answers but truly for myself I know I have to seek what God says in His Word even if I won’t like the answer, I know it’s for my own good.

* Did you have unrealistic expectations because of what others told you? How did you learn to adjust to reality?
Yes definitely and sometimes I fall into the trap of unrealistic expectations. I am convicted of these things through the HS.

* What words of wisdom would you give to others to try to prevent them from falling into the same trap?
Follow what God says not your feelings and urges. It’s hard as a Christian sometimes but we all know it’s for the better.

* What do you wish people would have REALLY told you, or would really talk about?
Hmmm like what you’ve mentioned sis, hard to say things on here without being insensitive to our younger crowd members so I’ll just hold my thoughts lol.


I will say thank you for bringing these types of topics or discussions up as always Seoul, makes me really assess myself and the position I’m in. God bless 💛

 

[Lanolin]

the condom message or contraceptives didnt seem to make a dent in many boys wallets. They just seemd to 'forget' them unless a girl specifically asked for them. Anyway

I remember reading that in the US schools were not actually allowed to promote condoms, they were told to abstain or marry. In NZ everyone in high school was taught 'no glove, no love'. Or students when going out 'gotcha keys, gotcha cash, gotcha condoms?'

Because of AIDs.

When you had people dying of AIDS in the 80s and children catching them because of blood transfusions and it being a 'gay' disease stigma and also STDS which anyone can catch...it becomes a health and safety issue!

but people still has sex anyway, and fornicate and stuff because it seems exciting, but in reality it can actually be a yawn. The tv and movie make it seem like a cool thing to do, but its not so romantic as people make out.

 

[Pipp]

I don't want this to become graphic enough to offend (though of course the mods are free to edit anything said,) but I am almost 100% certain that my childhood church would have been against the alternatives you are suggesting (actions without a partner, or actions with an added device.)

I could be wrong, but I went to WELS Lutheran schools K-graduation and nothing's going to push the buttons more than a group of hormone-ridden teenagers in a Christian school, and we were pretty much told there is only one solution -- man, woman, marriage.

All 3 together, with nothing added and nothing taken away (I could be wrong about the solo trips within marriage, but that was the impression I got -- that it had to be you and your spouse always, and in all ways, and only that.)

Lol.

I have to laugh at this because it's a great example of the exact irony I'm trying to point out.

I don't really know the answers because... No one ever talked about it.

They were too busy telling us not to do anything and to just get married instead.

As I've gotten older, I've had younger singles ask me these questions and I'm sad to say that I don't know what to tell them, because I've never heard it clearly taught.

See... I know what you mean, but what do they do with verses like this ..

Proverbs 5:19
King James Version


19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.


Let her breast satisfy the at all times.... now, that gives no insinuation that its just talking about sex, so there are other ways to be intimate without fully having sex.

 

[Lanolin]

Most couples in nz live together first before marrying. Most only get married AFTER having children. Even in church

I think the christian community OP was in seemed very legalistic.
But the reason you may not have been told is because its the parents that are expected to teach their children or model relarionships for them its not really on the church or schools to do this, its kind of outside their remit so they dont really devote much time to it.

a lot of what i remember getting the info and advice from was my big sisters womans magazines, like Cosompolitan. But nowday you can go online and research that thing, Oh but porn. Yea. Thats a huge problem for men now.
a lot of music and tv would talk about it in the 90s people were starting to have more conversations about it. eg shows like sex and the city.

music like Spice Girls or Salt n Pepa or Lauryn Hill and TLC rapping about the perils of sex and love.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Hey Everyone,

This is going to be an even longer post that what I normally write, so if you can, stick with me for a while. It's going to be so long, in fact, that apparently it's too long for the system and I am going to have to break it up into two posts, so here we go.

A friend shared this post from a Christian wife who gave this advice to singles:

"Singleness is not a gift. Celibacy is. If you have no sex drive, you have the gift of celibacy and can choose to remain single for the Lord and His work. If you have a sex drive, get married; for it is better to marry than to burn. Most people don't have the gift of celibacy."

I'm a woman who has been single for a very long time (about 20 years,) and like most Christian singles, have been given the "for it is better to marry than to burn with passion" (1 Corinthians 7:9) so often that I'm sure if we counted them all up and got a dollar for each time, we could probably all retire.

Please note that i am NOT AT ALL trying to refute what the Bible says. Rather, I am always troubled as to why we are given such an incomplete answer.

My immediate reaction after reading this married woman's advice was:

1. "If you have a sex drive, get married." This makes marriage sound like a bag of potato chips you simply pick out and just throw into your cart at the grocery store and go home. Singles are told to get married as the supposed quick, easy solution to a sex drive, and yet at the same time, we are also told that we must be ever so careful in choosing a marriage partner. It gives off a very conflicting message: "Get married. Simple as that. But wait, hold your horses! Don't rush into anything! Take your time! Wait for God to direct your steps!" And I'm certainly not saying this isn't Godly advice.

But the thing is, single people are pretty much told to hurry up and get married before they sin. And on the other hand, if anything goes wrong, they will then immediately be blamed for not being prayerful or particular enough and choosing the wrong person.

2. Again, I'm not trying to say that this advice is somehow not Biblical. It most certainly is. BUT, it gets recited as of it's on auto tune in every Christian circle while at the same time completely ignoring that:

A. A plethora of Christian marriages are broken because of porn and sex addictions. Apparently, marriage doesn't cure this, but no one tells us how to prevent it or even talks about it until the marriage is crumbling or already destroyed. But yet, marriage is somehow the ultimate answer to a sex drive.

B. If I could get away with it (but I won't even try out of respect for this site and the fact that we have young people here,) I would love to make a poll asking married people if they're having the fantasy sex, as often as they want, in the exact ways they wanted when they were single and dreaming of having a spouse and "spiritually legal" way to have sex.

And if it isn't everything they thought it would be, how close is it? Or not? Because if this is the case, I'm hoping for and expecting married people to also tell singles how to buckle up for the truth: that there will be a lot of disappointment, and, after committing, you are going to have to learn to find the continues grace to deal with that for the rest of your life.

C. Simplistic statements like this ignore the plight of single parents and those who are divorced and widowed. Is it to be expected that a divorced or widowed person, or even someone who has sinned but repented and is now waiting again for marriage can somehow automatically erase their sex drive? Because these factors often make the search even more complicated, and it can't be dismissed by saying, "You don't have the gift of singleness if you have a sex drive." Why is it that so many fail to realize that singleness in itself is often a condition that is not chosen by that person?

This is why I personally don't buy that "not having a sex drive" is the only qualification for a life of singleness. I think there are plenty of Christian singles -- at least, I think I've met some of them -- who do indeed have one, but since they haven't met the right person, are able to set it aside for the life God currently has for them. And some people, not all, but some, are able to do that for a lifetime.

Likewise, what about married people who don't have a sex drive? Because there are people in marriages who don't have or lost their sex drive, and I would guess it's not making for a very happy marriage.

If singles are always spoken to like idiots and told to just get married (as if we can't think of that ourselves,) why aren't the married people who give us that advice, like this particular woman, talking about what happens when people who WANT to have sex -- but ARE ALREADY MARRIED -- but sex is not available to them. How are they coping and what are they doing to learn to live with it?

I am certainly no expert in anything in this life, but I've spent about 20 years being single and following, living with, or close by older married (or widowed) relatives. After spending so much time around those who are my parents' and grandparents' ages, I've seen a lot of things that have affected or just plain killed off many married couple's sex drives (but usually just for one person at a time,) such as:

* Pregnancy; caring for kids; miscarriage; losing a child.

* Loss of sex drive or loss of ability to have sex due to medical conditions like cancer, dementia, surgeries, etc. I've also read several articles and watched documentaries about younger and younger men losing some of their physical ability to have sex and having to rely on Viagra as early as in their 20's and 30's -- which is both expensive and detrimental to their health.

* Loss of interest in a marriage partner for sex due to porn, or a desire for things their spouse doesn't like that was discovered through porn.

* Growing apart over time and no longer thinking of their spouse in a romantic way.

* Some couples aren't even living together anymore because of medical conditions -- for example, one spouse has to live in a nursing home.

And it has also been my observation that most times, it's just one person who loses their sex drive at a time, leaving the other one very wanting and feeling very neglected. But they're married. So what do they do now? How do they learn to live with this? And why aren't singles told the truth -- that marriage does not equal getting a lifelong, steady availability of sex, so get used to going without it -- even you've done the exact thing you were told to do.

(Continued

I think the scripture has to be taken in the context of the time period that it was written in. Back then, marriage was pretty much expected of everyone so it's like saying if you're burning with sexual desires, then get yourself married asap instead of later. Today times are much different. To tell someone they should get married today is like trying to tell them how to live their life.

 

[seoulsearch]

Oh my goodness I was going to start a topic called Celibacy the last taboo but you bet me to it.

Go right ahead and write your thread, Lanolin. The Singles Forum ALWAYS has room for another thread about celibacy!!!

Seriously.

It's kind of refreshing to see another single start that topic.

Most often I see married people who weren't single for very long thinking they can somehow give advice to singles about celibacy.

That's why I said in my post that I want to tell them, "Ask God to give you the opportunity to experience 20 years of celibacy -- within your marriage. Because that's what happens to a lot of married people. And if you haven't experienced it for that long, you can't relate to what a lot of singles are going through. So please, experience it for yourself first -- and then come back and tell me all about how it's a gift."

And they would probably say, "BUT I'M MARRIED -- that means I don't have the gift of celibacy."

And my reply would be, "Then what's your answer to married people who want to have sex but can't because their spouse is unable or unwilling? Would you tell them, 'Well Hot Diggity, Brother (or Sister)! You were just given the GIFT OF CELIBACY!!' And what about people who had your alleged 'gift of celibacy' and didn't know it or didn't recognize it, so they got married, and then discovered they're really not interested in having sex? What advice would you have for their spouse? Is there spouse then allowed to divorce them because of it?"

Because if celibacy is a gift that means you shouldn't get married, you can't me in this utterly broken world that there aren't people who have this "gift" -- and have knowingly, or mistakenly gotten married -- to someone who very much DOESN'T have it.

*Smiling to myself.* Even as a kid, my Sunday school teachers kind me as a bit of a nightmare, because I've just never been good at just accepting pat answers or Scriptures that are constantly regurgitated without any other context.

 

[seoulsearch]

See... I know what you mean, but what do they do with verses like this ..

Proverbs 5:19
King James Version


19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.


Let her breast satisfy the at all times.... now, that gives no insinuation that its just talking about sex, so there are other ways to be intimate without fully having sex.

When I was on the Christian dating sites, there were some men using this passage in their profiles as a justification as to why they HAD to have a young, slender, good-looking wife, even if they were 60 pounds overweight -- because "the Bible says her body is to be pleasing to me at all times."

I'm not trying to get myself banned here, but one of the answers to this belief always seemed obvious to me, and I've always asked God about this.

The passage (Proverbs 5:19) says, "Let her breasts satisfy you at all times."

I understand the Bible was written at time where the male point of view took center stage.

But God isn't sexist. Therefore, I have often asked Him, "If our (the women's) bodies are to be pleasing to our husbands at all times, then Lord, what do you have in mind as far as their bodies being pleasing to their wives? What can I expect him to have in return?"

I always hear the saying, "Men are visual," to which I always say, "And God didn't make women blind." All I'm saying is, I don't agree with people who set a standard for what someone else has to be or look like when they don't fit into it themselves.

This is just my own personal belief, but I think anyone, man or woman, who sees something like this in a one-sided way is also going to have to live up to their own end of the deal.

Therefore, if a man believes his wife's body must be attractive and fulfilling to him at all times... What will he have to offer about his own body that's equally attractive and fulfilling to her?

 

[seoulsearch]

I think the scripture has to be taken in the context of the time period that it was written in. Back then, marriage was pretty much expected of everyone so it's like saying if you're burning with sexual desires, then get yourself married asap instead of later. Today times are much different. To tell someone they should get married today is like trying to tell them how to live their life.

This is such a great point, Zero.

I can even admit that one of the reasons I get a little bent out of shape about this constantly being doled out is because it always seems like someone is telling me what I need to do, Easy Peasy, 1-2-3, when they haven't actually walked road of long-time singleness themselves.

I don't mind at all when it's someone is showing that they're at least trying to see things from a single's point of view.

But all too often it seems like the ones trying to tell singles this are those who married young and have pretty much always been married.

I couldn't speak to them about how they need to live because I don't have the experience of being married as long as they have, so how can they speak to single life accurately when they haven't experienced for at least as long or even half the time as many of us?

 

[Live4Him3]

Well, you said you like people who are "open", so here goes...

From the time that I was born until I was 12 years old, I honestly didn't have a "sex drive".

Was I attracted to females?

You better believe that I was, and especially to Marcia Brady from "The Brady Bunch"...lol.

Alright, maybe not Marcia Brady specifically (a little bit), but definitely some females that I saw on TV shows, and definitely also some females that I knew from either school or just my neighborhood. My attraction back then was strictly heart and mind felt. In other words, I truly desired to share my heart and mind with a female's heart and mind, and I really didn't see women as an object of sexual desire or lust.

Well, something changed dramatically, and I've spoken openly of it on this forum before. When I was 12 years old, one of my older brothers moved out (I was number 8 out of 9 children), and while rummaging around in our basement one day, I found a box of items that he had left behind. Inside that box was a Playboy magazine which I looked at, and it was at that exact moment in time that my "sex drive" began. As I've openly said here before, in hindsight, I am beyond convinced that a demon entered into me at that time, and it was the demon that was "driving" my "sex drive" from that point forward.

A scriptural citation might be good at this time:

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

I definitely yielded my members (eyes and, subsequently, other body parts) to sin at that time, and I was most definitely a slave to pornography and sexual sins for the next almost 15 years. In all honesty, it was as if there was two of me during those years. In other words, I still had the true desire to connect with a female in both heart and mind, but I was also DRIVEN to lust after women, and, again, I fully believe that "drive" was demonic in nature. I became a born again Christian a couple of months before my 27th birthday, and I still had this same inward struggle initially. I read my Bible insatiably, I prayed, fasted, you name it, and the problem persisted until the time came that I literally got delivered from the demons, PLURAL, which were inside of me. As soon as they departed, my "sex drive" departed with them. No longer did I have that inward struggle, and my true heart's desire of bonding with a women in both heart and mind was the only desire that I had.

Well, I did eventually get married, and sexual relations between my wife and I were definitely a big part of our relationship. However, as I've said on this forum before, there is A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE between "having sex" with someone and "making love" to someone. In other words, I still desired, first and foremost, to bond in both heart and mind, and then the intimacy actually meant something to me.

Would I be okay without the intimacy?

Truth be told, and I've shared this here before, there were many times when I was just fine without it. For one thing, I learned, about a month after I got married, that my wife (my ex, now) had been sexually molested repeatedly by her own father between the ages of 5 and 6 years old. To me, that's got to be one of the most traumatic things that a child could ever experience, and, believe me, whether she's cognizant of it or not, it still affects her to this day. Anyhow, there were many times when we were about to be intimate that she had flashbacks to what her father had done to her, and I understandably, willingly, and compassionately was perfectly fine to do without that particular form of intimacy while still trying to minister to my wife's needs.

I don't know if I've ever mentioned this here before or not, but, late in our marriage, my wife had a fall in which she received a traumatic brain injury (TBI), and she was actually paralyzed from the neck down periodically for a few weeks. Her own doctors couldn't figure out what was causing the paralysis, but my nephew, who is a doctor himself, spoke with his colleagues, and we finally figured out what was causing it. Anyhow, during that ordeal, I can assure you that I wasn't running around like a dog in heat looking for somebody's leg to hump.

Seoul, you mentioned porn several times in your post, and I'd be willing to bet that people with "sex drives" have all viewed it at some point in time.

Anyhow, I can assure you that when I look at women today, what I'm primarily looking at is their heart and soul. If that is beautiful, then they're beautiful in my eyes.

 

[seoulsearch]

A close CC friend just made an excellent point to me privately about how I am always concerned about posting things that might be too much for young people, but they are most likely already talking about all these things amongst themselves.

Boy is that ever true. When I was in Lutheran school, everyone was talking about all the things the pastors and teachers wouldn't tell us or allow us to bring up.

But the reason I try to be mindful is because a while back, we would regularly have kids who said they were around 13 years old posting in the teen and young adult forums. I looked up some of the threads back when I joined in 2009, and there a good number were from 18-year-olds to young 20's looking for partners.

For a long time, we had a young girl who said she was about 15 who used to hang out with us in Singles every day. A member who isn't here anymore started the original, infamous Shipping Thread (in which people suggested who might be a good match for whom among current users,) and this girl eagerly asked everyone to suggest matches for her.

This set off a firestorm discussion among users of how old one needed to be to be actively included in such a thread, what "rules" need to be put into place, and how those rules would be enforced.

Ever since then, when I sit down to write, I'm trying to think from the perspective that we might have have pre-teens or younger friends reading what we write, and how I as a parent would feel about my child reading those conversations.

At the same time, one of the reasons I write what I do is because I always wished I had a "big sister" or "auntie"-type figure that I could go to with all my questions and not have to fear judgment or condemnation.

I always told God that if He gave me the opportunity, I hoped to grow up and be that for someone else, and this is part of my way of doing that.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

3. If I marry my lady love and she becomes unable to have sex for medical reasons, I can always masturbate and still be happy with my lady love.

4. If I become unable to have sex, I hope she will just be happy if I wield a vibrator instead. If I pick the right one, she will still love me.

These solutions have the potential of becoming complicated. This may create a scenario where spouses may not want their other spouse to masturbate or use devices but they just put up with it because there is no other solution. The spouse could feel threatened or uncomfortable. For example, what if either spouse bought a sex doll; that is just a more elaborate sex device. I think when people start using sex devices, they have the urge to take it up to the next level.