Three Questions for Calvinists

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Shepherd

Shepherd

Active member
#1
May 11, 2022
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28
#1
Luke 14
15And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.16Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Did the man actually invite those who gave the excuses?
Did those who made the excuses know that they were being invited?
So, if the man originally wanted them to come, why did they end up with no supper?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2
Jul 3, 2015
59,826
29,199
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#2
Shepherd said:
Did the man actually invite those who gave the excuses?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Did those who made the excuses know that they were being invited?
Click to expand...
Yes.

So, if the man originally wanted them to come, why did they end up with no supper?
Click to expand...
They refused the invitation.

Oh, I see these questions are for Calvinists :unsure:

I am not a Calvinist :geek:
 
J

joecoten

Guest
#3
#3
I've been accused of being a Calvinist, and though I'm not quite sure what that is, I'm pretty sure I don't want to know! 😬
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#4
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#4
Are there actually people who refer to themselves as "Calvinists?"
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#5
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#5
joecoten said:
I've been accused of being a Calvinist, and though I'm not quite sure what that is, I'm pretty sure I don't want to know! 😬
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I've been accused of the same thing, but I couldn't describe one aspect of what that means. Joecoten . . . when we're accused of such nonsense, it's just fake christians practicing their personal bullying tactics.
 
J

joecoten

Guest
#6
#6
2ndTimothyGroup said:
I've been accused of the same thing, but I couldn't describe one aspect of what that means. Joecoten . . . when we're accused of such nonsense, it's just fake christians practicing their personal bullying tactics.
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Yes, there were a few on another site I used to frequent. Very proud of it, too!
The bullies used to upset me, but I seem to be saying oh well to many things recently. As long as I keep a good attitude, I'm okay. I was on a Rumble thread chat earlier and I must admit that the unreasoning hatred of the Jews upset me. There's so much of it today.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#7
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#7
joecoten said:
Yes, there were a few on another site I used to frequent. Very proud of it, too!
The bullies used to upset me, but I seem to be saying oh well to many things recently. As long as I keep a good attitude, I'm okay. I was on a Rumble thread chat earlier and I must admit that the unreasoning hatred of the Jews upset me. There's so much of it today.
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I appreciate all that you wrote . . . especially the protection of our Jewish brothers and sisters. And like you as you say, "Oh well" to the disruptors, I am quick to cast the dust from my feet and move onward before I become agitated. It is easiest to just depart and discontinue conversation until the Lord has open the hearts and minds of those who cannot see nor hear.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#8
Jul 31, 2013
37,728
13,522
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#8
2ndTimothyGroup said:
It is easiest to just depart and discontinue conversation until the Lord has open the hearts and minds of those who cannot see nor hear.
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it is easy to presume someone else is the problem, rather than ourselves
 
L

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
#9
May 19, 2022
1,383
640
113
#9
posthuman said:
it is easy to presume someone else is the problem, rather than ourselves
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Yes, it most certainly is, and a lot of people are quite adept at the same.

As far as "bullying" is concerned, those who feel "bullied" just need to grow up. Throughout the ages, Christians, not to mention Christ himself, have endured all sorts of real persecution, even to the point of death. Nowadays, if you simply disagree with a professing Christian, while supporting your own position with scripture to boot, you're a "bully".

Anyhow, to the OP's questions, as Magenta already rightly answered:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. They refused the invitation.

Jean Calvin was not only a heretic, but an arch-heretic, and his teachings are a plague on society.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#10
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#10
Live4Him3 said:
As far as "bullying" is concerned, those who feel "bullied" just need to grow up.
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Self-justification . . . nice. If I had young children, I'd tell them not to talk to you; to keep a distance.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#11
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#11
Shepherd said:
Luke 14
15And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.16Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Did the man actually invite those who gave the excuses?
Did those who made the excuses know that they were being invited?
So, if the man originally wanted them to come, why did they end up with no supper?
Click to expand...
Well ... if your question was asked about those of us as believe in Predestination and Election [those good old fashioned bible doctrines] and not asked about of Calvinists. I would argue along these lines ...

First it wasn't an invite it was a command, they were bidden to come. They rebelled.
second the servants were command to go out quickly and "bring in hither" the poor and the maimed and the halt and the blind.
These came in willingly enough, it was a feast, some of these hadn't eaten all day.
But there was still room
The servants are now told to go and COMPEL the most hopeless and abject people to come to the feast. Where is free human will in all this?

You may not like this.

But predestination and election is built into the human existence, in his present condition and circumstances. The prodigal son had very little choice, if he would live he must return to his father or die. That is what he understood when he "came to himself" and that is just when God the Holy Ghost caught up with him and gave him the idea to do just that ... to all appearances he made a freewill decision. But hunger and poverty are built in to the human condition by predestination ... what ? to exclude people from the kingdom as Calvin says? NO! a hundred times no, but to act as an irresistible magnetism to draw them to Christ.

Prosperity gives the ILLUSION of freewill, this is the danger of prosperity. No wonder the Americans are big on defending human freewill.

The western church in it's prosperity has sinned against Africa, India , China and poorer nations. Preaching poverty instead God's prosperity, God's abundant provision. We have gone to those nations not preaching feast but fasting. Preaching a future blessing but a present curse.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#12
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#12
Evmur said:
Well ... if your question was asked about those of us as believe in Predestination and Election [those good old fashioned bible doctrines] and not asked about of Calvinists. I would argue along these lines ...

First it wasn't an invite it was a command, they were bidden to come. They rebelled.
second the servants were command to go out quickly and "bring in hither" the poor and the maimed and the halt and the blind.
These came in willingly enough, it was a feast, some of these hadn't eaten all day.
But there was still room
The servants are now told to go and COMPEL the most hopeless and abject people to come to the feast. Where is free human will in all this?

You may not like this.

But predestination and election is built into the human existence, in his present condition and circumstances. The prodigal son had very little choice, if he would live he must return to his father or die. That is what he understood when he "came to himself" and that is just when God the Holy Ghost caught up with him and gave him the idea to do just that ... to all appearances he made a freewill decision. But hunger and poverty are built in to the human condition by predestination ... what ? to exclude people from the kingdom as Calvin says? NO! a hundred times no, but to act as an irresistible magnetism to draw them to Christ.

Prosperity gives the ILLUSION of freewill, this is the danger of prosperity. No wonder the Americans are big on defending human freewill.

The western church in it's prosperity has sinned against Africa, India , China and poorer nations. Preaching poverty instead God's prosperity, God's abundant provision. We have gone to those nations not preaching feast but fasting. Preaching a future blessing but a present curse.
Click to expand...
Just imagine, wealthy christians from the west preaching poverty to the people of India.
 
J

joecoten

Guest
#14
#14
Live4Him3 said:
Yes, it most certainly is, and a lot of people are quite adept at the same.

As far as "bullying" is concerned, those who feel "bullied" just need to grow up. Throughout the ages, Christians, not to mention Christ himself, have endured all sorts of real persecution, even to the point of death. Nowadays, if you simply disagree with a professing Christian, while supporting your own position with scripture to boot, you're a "bully".

Anyhow, to the OP's questions, as Magenta already rightly answered:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. They refused the invitation.

Jean Calvin was not only a heretic, but an arch-heretic, and his teachings are a plague on society.
Click to expand...
Some need to take a long walk off a short pier.
 
L

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
#17
May 19, 2022
1,383
640
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#17
joecoten said:
Sure. Here, let me give you a push!
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That's why I love you.

You're always willing to lend a brother a helping hand...or two.

Anyhow, I don't see you as being a crybaby in the least, but there are some members here who could use a pacifier and a bib.

They already shake their rattles...
 
J

joecoten

Guest
#18
#18
Live4Him3 said:
That's why I love you.

You're always willing to lend a brother a helping hand...or two.

Anyhow, I don't see you as being a crybaby in the least, but there are some members here who could use a pacifier and a bib.

They already shake their rattles...
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong with being an infant...if you're an infant! We need to keep these two things in mind...
"21 Because you shove with flank and shoulder, butting all the weak sheep with your horns until you have driven them away, 22 I will save my flock, and they will no longer be plundered. I will judge between one sheep and another." - Ezekiel 34:21, 22
" A bruised reed He will not break, and a smoldering wick He will not snuff out. In faithfulness He will bring forth justice;" - Isaiah 42:3
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#19
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,091
113
#19
joecoten said:
I've been accused of being a Calvinist, and though I'm not quite sure what that is, I'm pretty sure I don't want to know! 😬
Click to expand...
I have been "accused" of being a dreaded Calvinist before as well, because I believe some of the same stuff they believe.

Ya know, like Jesus is God in the flesh come to die and pay our sin debt, and was resurrected to life, among other things.


What I find interesting is the great amount, and usually vitriolic number of anti-calvinist threads, especially in comparison to the number of anti-arminian threads.

I think people kinda got the incredibly erroneous idea that calvinists are not Christians, and not their Brethren.
 
J

joecoten

Guest
#20
#20
PennEd said:
I have been "accused" of being a dreaded Calvinist before as well, because I believe some of the same stuff they believe.

Ya know, like Jesus is God in the flesh come to die and pay our sin debt, and was resurrected to life, among other things.


What I find interesting is the great amount, and usually vitriolic number of anti-calvinist threads, especially in comparison to the number of anti-arminian threads.

I think people kinda got the incredibly erroneous idea that calvinists are not Christians, and not their Brethren.
Click to expand...
What I like most about Calvinists is that they remind me of Calvin And Hobbes. One could say that Cavinists make me smile!
 
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