Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Jackson123]

It's still you

do you lose faith in people who never let you down?

Not me but some do
Jesus say in Matt 13:7
The seeed that fell on the soil with a lot of torn will sprung for a while than die

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You didn't read my post carefully. The Greek for "believe" means to trust. That's much further than "mental agreement".


You have no grounds from Scripture.


You may speak only for yourself. I know what the Bible says and NONE of the OSNAS crowd has proven the verses I quote as meaning or saying something else.


I've been doing that.


I'll never accept false doctrines.


Jesus actually told us why.

Luke 8:13 - Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. They failed to use their faith.


Jesus didn't say that. This is just your opinion. The Bible never speaks of "pure" faith, whatever that is. You're just making up stuff.

The second soil DID believe, but when testing came, they failed to use their faith against the testing.


Still making up stuff. Jesus never any of this either. That they "only claimed" to have faith. Jesus said in the clearest of words that "they believed for a while". Quit trying to CHANGE what Jesus said.


Why wouldn't I? And why don't you? Maybe too much bias.


Actually, Jesus NEVER said anything about so quick. You're just making up a bunch of hooey.


Then show me the words that "they claimed to have faith".

Rather, Jesus SAID that "they believed for a while". You are giving a great example of how to twist Scripture to say what you want it so say.


Since you obviously don't understand what "monotheism" means, why are we even having a discussion. "God is One" IS IS IS monotheism. It was uniquely a Jewish belief. Gentiles were polytheists.


Well, there you go.


Then you simply don't understand the Bible. Producing fruit is a command. If being saved guaranteed fruit, where is that taught in the Bible? It isn't. Believers are commanded to because it isn't guaranteed or automatic.


Work has nothing to do with salvation. Works are supposed to follow salvation. That's what the command is for.

But, when believers grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they sure AREN'T producing fruit. That is why Paul commanded believers to be filled with the Spirit.

Do you understand how to obey that command?


Do you really believe that how one lives is the ultimate determiner of salvation? If so, you are just like the Pharisees, who believed in a works based salvation, which is totally opposed to the Bible.

Do you know what GRACE is?


Since the Greek word for repent means to change the mind, those who do believe the gosple have to change their mind about a lot of things.

once again, I bid you good day sir.

Your one of the most proud people I have met in CC.. and I refuse to keep hashing out the same stuff over and over.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I am not agree
Killed by Muslim because not mark of the beast mean spiritual salvation

who said anything about muslim?

have you ever read revelation> Did you read Jesus own words in matt 24. If he did not return NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE..

this is the salvation he is talking about

 

[Jackson123]

who said anything about muslim?

have you ever read revelation> Did you read Jesus own words in matt 24. If he did not return NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE..

this is the salvation he is talking about

What this verse thing to do what your believe if you endure you physically save
Read act friend Stephen endure in his faith and he physically die
His endurance not physically saved him

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What this verse thing to do what your believe if you endure you physically save

If jesus said NO FLESH WILL SURVIVE, unless he came. and he comes for the elects sake.

then says he who endures to the end will be saved

well you should easily see the point.. Jesus did not say the elect woudl die spiritually. He meant physical life.

Read act friend Stephen endure in his faith and he physically die
His endurance not physically saved him

we are not in the tribulation period yet. so in context. No one yet has had the ability to endure to the end, when Christ returns.

 

[Inquisitor]

I believe what Jesus taught in John 5:24, that believers possess eternal life, which means from the MOMENT they believe they have it.

Then, Jesus taught in John 10:28 that recipients of eternal life (from the MOMENT of saving faith per 5:24) they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

This isn't difficult. When Jesus gives someone the free gift of eternal life, they shall never perish. And the gift is given to those who believe in Him, WHEN they believe.

So, whatever happens AFTER they have believed and received the free gift of eternal life, DOES NOT HAVE ANY AFFECT on their salvation.

However, God does not tolerate sin. Consider:

Heb 10-
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e]
31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

This is about God's very painful discipline for His children who are unfaithful/disobedient. No one gets away with anything, which is the usual complaint of those who beieve OSNAS.

The first verse is clear enough.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

No sacrifice for sins remains, the blood of Christ avails not for the deliberate, and continual rejection of it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

once again, I bid you good day sir.

Your one of the most proud people I have met in CC.. and I refuse to keep hashing out the same stuff over and over.

There is no "pride" in simply knowing what the Bible says. All I've done is point out what verses mean. You have not done that. You've just complained about what I believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The first verse is clear enough.

Good point!

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

No sacrifice for sins remains, the blood of Christ avails not for the deliberate, and continual rejection of it.

v.26 is directly related to previous verses.

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

v.18 says the same thing as v.26.

For believers, animal sacrifice is "no longer necessary" because by Christ's death, all sin has been paid for.

What did you think of the rest of Heb 10 that I explained, from v.26-31?

 

[Inquisitor]

Good point!


v.26 is directly related to previous verses.

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

v.18 says the same thing as v.26.

For believers, animal sacrifice is "no longer necessary" because by Christ's death, all sin has been paid for.

What did you think of the rest of Heb 10 that I explained, from v.26-31?

The primary context of Hebrews 10 concerns the Jewish audience, returning to the law.

Gentiles never submitted animal sacrifices, in fact, Gentiles never even had a temple to conduct sacrifices.

The letter was addressed to the Hebrews and not to the Gentiles.

 

[Jackson123]

If jesus said NO FLESH WILL SURVIVE, unless he came. and he comes for the elects sake.

What verse?

well you should easily see the point.. Jesus d

Wrong, whoever endure save physically ? No they save spiritually
Stephen endure than Jews stone him to death physically but save spiritually

 

[Goliath]

Than you lost your salvation friend becaus Jesus say he who endure to the and will be save
We don't have the right to make the law salvation not according to you friend it is according to Jesus rule

We are under the law of love because Jesus ask us t olve God as much as we can and love your neighbor like yourself
But we not under the law of ritual like catholic teach to be save must water baptis, Eucharist etc, that are not the requirement of salvation but law of love is
You not save if you not love Jesus and hate your fellow man

Love is Definitely...one of the signs. But I must admit, I do hope

Thanks for your reply.

I can see that you are struggling with this issue.

My definition is the Gentile definition of sin, which is not based on the law, obviously.

Anything that is not of faith is sin.

Here is a list of sins that Paul names.

Galatians 5:18-21
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Did you notice these sins, witchcraft, hostilities, outbursts of anger, ambition, factions, envy, etc.

None of these sins above are mentioned in the 10 commandments.

Paul says if you have any of these sinful attributes, your not going upstairs.

What's worse is that Paul says 'and things like these', so obviously there are many more.

The ten commandments are effectively useless, in giving us a clear picture of what sin really is.

Murder and Adultery are not sins for gentile believers?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What verse?

22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Wrong, whoever endure save physically ? No they save spiritually
Stephen endure than Jews stone him to death physically but save spiritually

once again. STEVEN WAS NOT IN THE TRIBULATION PERIOD!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Wrong, whoever endure save physically ? No they save spiritually

What verse tells us how to receive eternal life? Do you have one?

Stephen endure than Jews stone him to death physically but save spiritually

Stephen was saved WAY BEFORE he was stoned.

Acts 6:5 - This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

Stephen was in the first group of deacons. His stoning had NOTHING to do with his salvation, since he was already saved.

His stoning was God's method of bringing him home.

 

[Jackson123]

22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


once again. STEVEN WAS NOT IN THE TRIBULATION PERIOD!

This verse don't say if you endure you guaranty physically save
This what happen during tribulation rev 13

15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

Refused to worship ...to be killed/physical death not physical save

You reserve this verse

 

[Goliath]

Inquisitor.....One of the biggest disagreements among believers, one that has divided us....is wether we are under the Law. And I am confused as to how people can believe they are not under the Law.
Why?
Those who believe they are not under the Law, will tell me they sin...that they are sinners.
This is my conundrum....
Sin is the transgression of the Law. If they are not under Gods Law..How do they sin..What makes them a sinner?
Paul said without the Law there is no sin....This makes sense to me, but how does someone sin, without the Law...this I don't understand.
Obviously you must define sin differently than I have...So what is your definition of sin?

Are you saying, for the gentile,…. Murder and Adultery are not sins because they were not on Paul’s list?

 

[mustaphadrink]

Perhaps as foretold in God's Word...

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 (NASB) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

I don't doubt your reply but I would be more convinced if there were SOME churches that are a light on a hill. I am sure there are, just not in western nations.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This verse don't say if you endure you guaranty physically save
This what happen during tribulation rev 13

15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

Refused to worship ...to be killed/physical death not physical save

You reserve this verse

lol

It don;t say you endure you get to keep eternal life either

Again, I must ask. Why are you trying to save yourself?

 

[Rosemaryx]

lol

It don;t say you endure you get to keep eternal life either

Again, I must ask. Why are you trying to save yourself?

This is what happens when one does not have assurance in Christ...
It is lack of trust , living in a fear...
...xox...

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This is what happens when one does not have assurance in Christ...
It is lack of trust , living in a fear...
...xox...

sadly they want the rest of us to live in fear also.. Jesus said come to me and I will give you rest. Not more fear...

 

[Rosemaryx]

sadly they want the rest of us to live in fear also.. Jesus said come to me and I will give you rest. Not more fear...

Amen to that...
Give up all your works , just come to Him , empty of everything...
...xox...