Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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Everlasting-Grace said:
we can't lose salvation period
eternal life is eternal.
we do not just stop believing and become an unbeliever (antichrist) thats impossible
Says Jesus! That's who. Your claims are directly contrary to what Jesus said.
we can't lose salvation period
eternal life is eternal.
we do not just stop believing and become an unbeliever (antichrist) thats impossible
Says Jesus! That's who. Your claims are directly contrary to what Jesus said.
What do you mean by physical salvation on Matt 24:13
Say Muslim come to you and said endure on you faith and killed or not endure and life
If you endure Muslim change his mind and let you have physical salvation not kill you?
It doesn't what Jesus say
Where in that verse Jesus say that he talk about physical salvation
Say Muslim come to you and said endure on you faith and killed or not endure and life
If you endure Muslim change his mind and let you have physical salvation not kill you?
It doesn't what Jesus say
Where in that verse Jesus say that he talk about physical salvation
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
From the earlier link, continued:
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Several other pertinent scriptures:
Luke 12:45 "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delays his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looks not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." He was the servant of his Lord. But now Jesus says that, though he was once saved, his lord will appoint him a portion in hell.
John 15:2-6 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit¦ If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." The person was already abiding in the vine, i.e., saved and "in Christ. Now, he will be "taken away, cut off, and will be burned. But note what happens before this burning: He will "wither, xeraino, dry up, and shrivel. This means that at one time the life of the Vine actually flowed in and through him, but now being separated from the Vine because of a refusal to bear Christian fruit, he loses that life.
Romans 11:21 "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." This is the warning of the Lord Jesus Christ. He has cut off many before. If you don't continue in his goodness, he will cut you off also. Once saved, you have to continue in salvation. Or else you can be cut off.
1 Cor 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy." You are the temple of God. He lives in you. But, if you defile yourself with sin, God will destroy you, not merely your rewards! It is not once saved always saved.
1 Cor 9:27 "I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." If Apostle Paul did not continue to keep his body in obedience, he would have been thrown away. That means salvation is not automatically kept. But we have to meet the conditions to keep it.
1 Cor 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." If we stand, be careful so that we may not fall. This caution shows that the position is not guaranteed.
"
Several other pertinent scriptures:
Luke 12:45 "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delays his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looks not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." He was the servant of his Lord. But now Jesus says that, though he was once saved, his lord will appoint him a portion in hell.
John 15:2-6 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit¦ If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." The person was already abiding in the vine, i.e., saved and "in Christ. Now, he will be "taken away, cut off, and will be burned. But note what happens before this burning: He will "wither, xeraino, dry up, and shrivel. This means that at one time the life of the Vine actually flowed in and through him, but now being separated from the Vine because of a refusal to bear Christian fruit, he loses that life.
Romans 11:21 "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." This is the warning of the Lord Jesus Christ. He has cut off many before. If you don't continue in his goodness, he will cut you off also. Once saved, you have to continue in salvation. Or else you can be cut off.
1 Cor 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy." You are the temple of God. He lives in you. But, if you defile yourself with sin, God will destroy you, not merely your rewards! It is not once saved always saved.
1 Cor 9:27 "I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." If Apostle Paul did not continue to keep his body in obedience, he would have been thrown away. That means salvation is not automatically kept. But we have to meet the conditions to keep it.
1 Cor 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." If we stand, be careful so that we may not fall. This caution shows that the position is not guaranteed.
You didn't read my post carefully. The Greek for "believe" means to trust. That's much further than "mental agreement".
You have no grounds from Scripture.
You may speak only for yourself. I know what the Bible says and NONE of the OSNAS crowd has proven the verses I quote as meaning or saying something else.
I've been doing that.
I'll never accept false doctrines.
Jesus actually told us why.
Luke 8:13 - Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. They failed to use their faith.
Jesus didn't say that. This is just your opinion. The Bible never speaks of "pure" faith, whatever that is. You're just making up stuff.
The second soil DID believe, but when testing came, they failed to use their faith against the testing.
Still making up stuff. Jesus never any of this either. That they "only claimed" to have faith. Jesus said in the clearest of words that "they believed for a while". Quit trying to CHANGE what Jesus said.
Why wouldn't I? And why don't you? Maybe too much bias.
Actually, Jesus NEVER said anything about so quick. You're just making up a bunch of hooey.
Then show me the words that "they claimed to have faith".
Rather, Jesus SAID that "they believed for a while". You are giving a great example of how to twist Scripture to say what you want it so say.
Since you obviously don't understand what "monotheism" means, why are we even having a discussion. "God is One" IS IS IS monotheism. It was uniquely a Jewish belief. Gentiles were polytheists.
Well, there you go.
Then you simply don't understand the Bible. Producing fruit is a command. If being saved guaranteed fruit, where is that taught in the Bible? It isn't. Believers are commanded to because it isn't guaranteed or automatic.
Work has nothing to do with salvation. Works are supposed to follow salvation. That's what the command is for.
But, when believers grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they sure AREN'T producing fruit. That is why Paul commanded believers to be filled with the Spirit.
Do you understand how to obey that command?
Do you really believe that how one lives is the ultimate determiner of salvation? If so, you are just like the Pharisees, who believed in a works based salvation, which is totally opposed to the Bible.
Do you know what GRACE is?
Since the Greek word for repent means to change the mind, those who do believe the gosple have to change their mind about a lot of things.
You have no grounds from Scripture.
You may speak only for yourself. I know what the Bible says and NONE of the OSNAS crowd has proven the verses I quote as meaning or saying something else.
I've been doing that.
I'll never accept false doctrines.
Jesus actually told us why.
Luke 8:13 - Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. They failed to use their faith.
Jesus didn't say that. This is just your opinion. The Bible never speaks of "pure" faith, whatever that is. You're just making up stuff.
The second soil DID believe, but when testing came, they failed to use their faith against the testing.
Still making up stuff. Jesus never any of this either. That they "only claimed" to have faith. Jesus said in the clearest of words that "they believed for a while". Quit trying to CHANGE what Jesus said.
Why wouldn't I? And why don't you? Maybe too much bias.
Actually, Jesus NEVER said anything about so quick. You're just making up a bunch of hooey.
Then show me the words that "they claimed to have faith".
Rather, Jesus SAID that "they believed for a while". You are giving a great example of how to twist Scripture to say what you want it so say.
Since you obviously don't understand what "monotheism" means, why are we even having a discussion. "God is One" IS IS IS monotheism. It was uniquely a Jewish belief. Gentiles were polytheists.
Well, there you go.
Then you simply don't understand the Bible. Producing fruit is a command. If being saved guaranteed fruit, where is that taught in the Bible? It isn't. Believers are commanded to because it isn't guaranteed or automatic.
Work has nothing to do with salvation. Works are supposed to follow salvation. That's what the command is for.
But, when believers grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they sure AREN'T producing fruit. That is why Paul commanded believers to be filled with the Spirit.
Do you understand how to obey that command?
Do you really believe that how one lives is the ultimate determiner of salvation? If so, you are just like the Pharisees, who believed in a works based salvation, which is totally opposed to the Bible.
Do you know what GRACE is?
Since the Greek word for repent means to change the mind, those who do believe the gosple have to change their mind about a lot of things.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believedin the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Since neither verse gives any kind of time limit on 'have not believed", it absolutely does mean "have NEVER believed".
So, it is ONLY those who have not believed (have NEVER believed) who will be condemned.
Think about that.
I guess you didn't think about it.
The 2 verses above proves that condemnation is based on NEVER having believed. And you don't believe that, but there they are; 2 verses that make that clear.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Since neither verse gives any kind of time limit on 'have not believed", it absolutely does mean "have NEVER believed".
So, it is ONLY those who have not believed (have NEVER believed) who will be condemned.
Think about that.
I guess you didn't think about it.
The 2 verses above proves that condemnation is based on NEVER having believed. And you don't believe that, but there they are; 2 verses that make that clear.