Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

but the example over which he is chiding those he wrote to is favoring the rich over the poor, showing partiality ((James 2:1-7))
so James does not lift the 10 commandments out as though they are still binding but the rest of the law isn't: the thing in which they have been unrighteous is from Leviticus 19.

James wrote 30 years AFTER the Cross that if the Christian kills, whether literally or in his thinking, he becomes a transgressor of the law, and there's no getting around that. The only thing left to determine what happens to "Christians" who become transgressors of the law and refuse to repent...Matthew 24:12-13 KJV tells you they will not endure to the end and be saved.

we are either under the whole law or we are not under the law. the idea that Christians are under the 10 commandments but nothing else does not come from scripture: we would be in error to treat ceremonial physical observance of the sign of the Mosaic covenant in the same way the Judaizing false teachers demanded circumcision among the believers in Galatia.

Doesn't come from Scripture? The same Paul who taught ceremonial Mosaic Laws are obsolete by "circumcision is nothing; uncircumcision is nothing" and "let no man judge you with respect to...the (yearly) sabbath days" also said "let him who stole steal no more" and "I had not known sin except by the law, for I had not known lust except that the law hath said "thou shalt not covet" and "honor your father and mother", etc. If Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, is it OK to have other gods before God or bow down in idolatrous worship or murder or commit adultery?

 

[Phoneman-777]

​

have faith in God. ​

(Mark 11:22)​

"Blessed are they which do His commandments that THEY (AND ONLY THEY) might have right to the Tree of Life..." (Revelation 22:14 KJV)

 

[Phoneman-777]

preposterous.

​

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, ​

or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath ​

(Colossians 2:16 kjv) ​

​

'holyday' here in kjv is literally 'feast' or 'festival' -- those are the 7 feasts of the law.
'the sabbath' here in kjv is differentiated from the yearly festivals.

The yearly sabbath was a shadow, but the weekly Sabbath isn't a shadow of anything! It was created before sin entered the world when there were no shadows: all was light.

However, the Feast day sabbaths were shadows of Christ's ministry of salvation: Passover foreshadowed the Cross, Unleavened Bread foreshadowed His incorruption in the tomb, First Fruits foreshadowed the resurrection, etc., etc., etc.

 

[Phoneman-777]

CherieR, if I may, it's a popular misconception that when Colossians 2:16 KJV mentions "let no man judge you with respect to...sabbath days" it's referring to the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments which may safely be discarded, as Posthuman argues. Nothing could be further from the truth. Proof:

The things Paul lists in verse 16 are "shadows" of Christ - ceremonial components of the Mosaic Law which pointed to Jesus. Passover, Unleavened Bread, meat offerings, drink offerings, holy days, and yearly "sabbaths" like Passover, Unleavened Bread, Tabernacles, etc., were "shadows" of Christ's ministry concerning His first and second advents. The weekly Sabbath isn't a shadow of anything because it was created before sin entered the world when all was light.

If you stand in the shadow of a tree and start walking, you eventually bump your head on the tree. Likewise, these ceremonial shadows all lead up to Christ. So, what is the weekly Sabbath? It's a memorial to the totality of God's creative power, concerning both nature and the redeemed who are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, and that's why we keep it

 

[posthuman]

Situation Ethics

interesting term you got there.
another example of situational ethics, apart from the common, simple understanding, is ignoring the present situation when applying ethos.
consider for example Christ healing people on sabbath: the pharisees, who effectively placed ritual ceremonial physical sabbath observance above God, as an idol, accused Christ of sin because he healed people on a certain day. they had a situational ethic that only applied during a certain time period. an ethos that was temporary rather than eternal.
they crazily though they would commend themselves to God because of their particular situational ethos.
turns out such things.. God is not impressed with.
the real answer is to confess your sin, daily, and daily throw yourself at His feet asking for mercy. it's the humble, that He approves.
haven't you discovered the same?
or do you even walk with Him


on this day called "TODAY" you might ask yourself whether the Bible teaches an ethos that only applies over a certain brief time period or whether it teaches an eternal ethos.

or maybe you might not.

how can i tell?

 

[posthuman]

The yearly sabbath was a shadow, but the weekly Sabbath isn't a shadow of anything! It was created before sin entered the world when there were no shadows: all was light.

However, the Feast day sabbaths were shadows of Christ's ministry of salvation: Passover foreshadowed the Cross, Unleavened Bread foreshadowed His incorruption in the tomb, First Fruits foreshadowed the resurrection, etc., etc., etc.

crazy how you don't care about directly contradicting scripture.

do you have any idea how transparent you are to all of us?
ritual ceremonial carnal physical sabbath observation is your god; not Christ.
we all see that.
with this post you're blatantly stating that your private interpretation is that sabbath has nothing to do with Him.
wow.

& you have no idea what i do on saturdays, but you are about to baselessly falsely accuse me once again:

go ahead, do it. that's your schtick.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You didn’t answer my question because your pride won’t allow you to do so. Your pride also won’t allow you to be rebuked by anyone, let alone by someone who isn’t in theological lockstep with you. Furthermore, I couldn’t care less if we have further dialogue or not.

I didn't answer your question because I needed to first find out if you're capable of mature Christian dialogue, or a waste of my time. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You’re guilty of breaking the 1st Commandment and ironically you quote a verse that pertains to you, one who places value on your works rather than on Christ and His works, thus denying His saving grace.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Phoneman-777]

We were talking about tough love, not the absence of love. Big difference.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[posthuman]

phoneman is a ellen white follower.

if you know who she was and what she taught, you will understand his theology a lot better.

more than that, he thinks he's greater than her - he swallows all her false testimony & goes even further, adding blindness to blindness, and proud of it.
that explains things even more.
he goes from forum to forum spreading the same garbage, patting himself on the back for deceiving the young, thinking he's earning heaven by it.

some of us see; some of us don't. God alone gives eyes.
i only have blurry images, but i'm not completely blind: i perceive light, and perceive darkness.
i'm not good at walking but at least i know when i have misstepped ((that's 'almost always' lol))
'men as trees walking' you might say -- trees, and also briars.

i love you, @gb9
we are brothers

 

[posthuman]

James wrote 30 years AFTER the Cross that if the Christian kills, whether literally or in his thinking, he becomes a transgressor of the law

what James wrote was about Leviticus 19, not about Exodus 20.
previously discussed.
Christ places Leviticus 19 & Deuteronomy 6 above the decalogue.
the decalogue isn't the basis of the law; it's secondary - and ritual carnal sabbath observations by willful inaction are ceremonial.
they are a shadow of the realty, which is Christ: you think to teach us that Christ is a shadow of ceremonial ritual inactivity, but you are in totally the wrong forum for that. we're not idiots.

 

[Phoneman-777]

He does not understand Jude 1: 4 speaks of licentious.

Let's get something straight about what "licentiousness" means: it's derived from a word meaning "freedom" which is what a "license" provides: freedom to engage in something for which the unlicensed will be punished.

A fishing license gives freedom to a fisherman to do that for which the unlicensed man doing the same thing will be punished.
A hunting license gives freedom to a hunter to do that for which the unlicensed man doing the same thing will be punished.
A driver's license gives freedom to a driver to do that for which the unlicensed man doing the same thing will be punished.
A contractor's license...
A real estate license...
A law license...

OSAS says the Christian man is free to do (but he's better off not doing it) the exact same thing for which the wicked man will be punished. A blind man can see that's exactly the heresy about which Jude warned the church: turning grace into a OSAS License to Sin.

Charles Stanley preaches that bulldookey. David Jeremiah preaches that bulldookey. Adrian Rogers preaches that bulldookey.
And, what do they all have in common? They're all part of the OSAS crowd.

 

[posthuman]

Let's get something straight about what "licentiousness" means: it's derived from a word meaning "freedom" which is what a "license" provides: freedom to engage in something for which the unlicensed will be punished.

A fishing license gives freedom to a fisherman to do that for which the unlicensed man doing the same thing will be punished.
A hunting license gives freedom to a hunter to do that for which the unlicensed man doing the same thing will be punished.
A driver's license gives freedom to a driver to do that for which the unlicensed man doing the same thing will be punished.
A contractor's license...
A real estate license...
A law license...

OSAS says the Christian man is free to do (but he ought not do) the exact same thing for which the wicked man will be punished. A blind man can see that's exactly the heresy about which Jude warned the church: turning grace into a OSAS License to Sin.

Charles Stanley preaches that bulldookey. David Jeremiah preaches that bulldookey. Adrian Rogers preaches that bulldookey.
And, what do they all have in common? They're all part of the OSAS crowd.

having faith in God is not BS.
having faith in God is the gospel.

perhaps you ought to stop falsely accusing the brethren at some point.

 

[posthuman]

some people will not admit that salvation is free
because they are afraid it will be stolen

 

[Phoneman-777]

interesting term you got there...consider for example Christ healing people on sabbath: the pharisees, who effectively placed ritual ceremonial physical sabbath observance above God, as an idol, accused Christ of sin because he healed people on a certain day. they had a situational ethic that only applied during a certain time period. an ethos that was temporary rather than eternal.
they crazily though they would commend themselves to God because of their particular situational ethos.
turns out such things.. God is not impressed with.
the real answer is to confess your sin, daily, and daily throw yourself at His feet asking for mercy. it's the humble, that He approves.
haven't you discovered the same?
or do you even walk with Him


on this day called "TODAY" you might ask yourself whether the Bible teaches an ethos that only applies over a certain brief time period or whether it teaches an eternal ethos.

or maybe you might not.

how can i tell?

Was the Pharisaic prohibition against healing on the Sabbath in the Mosaic Law or "tradition"? And what did Jesus say about "tradition" in Matthew 15? Therefore, Situation Ethics has no application here at all.

 

[Phoneman-777]

having faith in God is not BS.
having faith in God is the gospel.

perhaps you ought to stop falsely accusing the brethren at some point.

Perhaps you ought to give up your hope that you may obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

 

[Phoneman-777]

crazy how you don't care about directly contradicting scripture.

do you have any idea how transparent you are to all of us?
ritual ceremonial carnal physical sabbath observation is your god; not Christ.
we all see that.
with this post you're blatantly stating that your private interpretation is that sabbath has nothing to do with Him.
wow.

& you have no idea what i do on saturdays, but you are about to baselessly falsely accuse me once again:

go ahead, do it. that's your schtick.

I've shown you the "sabbath" of Colossians 2:16 must be a "shadow", that the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments in no way qualifies as a "shadow" because it was created before sin entered the world when all was light, and that the ceremonial "sabbaths" Feast Days were indeed shadows that pointed to the Christ...and every bit of that is backed up with Scripture AND YOU KNOW IT. Repent now and avoid the rush at doomsday.

 

[Phoneman-777]

what James wrote was about Leviticus 19, not about Exodus 20.
previously discussed.

James referenced no less than two of the Ten Commandments, and yet you claim he wasn't writing about Exodus 20? Good gravy...

 

[Phoneman-777]

you think to teach us that Christ is a shadow of ceremonial ritual inactivity, but you are in totally the wrong forum for that. we're not idiots.

In what post did I say "Christ is a shadow" of anything? You won't find one.

Stop trying to lump the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments in with the yearly "shadow" sabbaths of Colossians 2:16 KJV because it's not going to work. Leviticus 23 plainly calls the yearly Feast Days "sabbaths", but the weekly Sabbath was created in Eden before sin entered the world when all was light, right or wrong?

 

[CherieR]

In what post did I say "Christ is a shadow" of anything? You won't find one.

Stop trying to lump the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments in with the yearly "shadow" sabbaths of Colossians 2:16 KJV because it's not going to work. Leviticus 23 plainly calls the yearly Feast Days "sabbaths", but the weekly Sabbath was created in Eden before sin entered the world when all was light, right or wrong?

I could see where it would be a shadow of the rest found in Christ. For me, this idea makes the Sabbath sound even more special not less.