Labeling Vs. Learning: How Much Should We Accept, and How Much Should We Try to Overcome?

[Lanolin]

normal is a boring label
its like the blank label with nothing on it.
Nobody knows what its is, so you can just write your own label.

 

[stilllearning]

@Live4Him3 -- Thank you for the welcome... I need to say the same right back to you! My coming and going from this site probably further cements my potential ADHD diagnosis, as my ability to concentrate on different things waxes and wanes for various times.

@Magenta -- I LOVE stories of an underdog getting his (or her) day. One of the YouTubers I watch was told she would never be able to speak in front of audiences, should give up acting because she would never be able to perform, and should give up any ambitions of painting, sculpting, or producing art because she had no talent. And here she is today, running a channel that has her doing exactly all of those things! Kudos to you for never giving up!

@Lynx -- You make a good point as to what the actual value of a label can be.

And I need to clarify here that I am most certainly not trying to dismiss or reduce any actual medical conditions as "mere labels." But what I am saying is that the very community, even if they are professionals, misdiagnoses or incorrectly assesses people all the time. At the time I was in college, Ritalin was seen as an almost automatic answer to any parent whose child was having behavioral problems, and the medical community was just starting to talk about how suspicions that many of these cases were being inaccurately diagnosed. (Not to mention when patients are purposely misdiagnosed for money/insurance reasons...)

But I also have to say that there is a flipside to this flapjack that really got the whole ball rolling for me.

I am starting to absolutely LOATHE the "label" of... drumroll... being "NORMAL."

I know this is probably just me being nit picky or even ungrateful, but I am finding more and more that I run into people who will tell me something like, "I have X, Y, and Z -- you know, things that a NORMAL/NEUROTYPICAL person like you just wouldn't understand." That may be true in some ways, but what gets to me is if the person then seems to think that just because I'm "normal", I am somehow obliged to completely cater to what they see is their own set of special needs -- without ever stopping to think or ask about my own.

I'm sure I've had many incidences in my own life in which the other person is "normal" and I'M the one who is "atypical." For instance, the stereotype that Asians are mathematical geniuses -- and here I was, an Asian who was always failing math classes. I know that's a petty example, but my point is simply that every person has had some kind of struggle that makes them sensitive to something.

Now of course, people have real medical issues and absolutely need special care or extra help -- I'm most certainly not docking that at all. I always try to use myself as an example, as I got to a point where I had to try to explain to friends and family why I might react certain ways or need certain conditions when my depression acted up, so I understand a little bit of what it's like to have specific conditions going on.

But the thing I'm talking about is, for example, a YouTuber I had unsubscribed to because every video became a matter of, "This is what I have, this is how it affects me, and this is how ALL YOU NORMAL PEOPLE OUT THERE should be working around my needs because of it!"

I had to stop watching her because everything was about her, and there was never any recognition of what others might be going through and how she could be sensitive to their needs as well. I realize that in some cases, the person might be incapable of doing this, but I often wonder if people like this have even tried.

I spent a few decades of my life trapped in one-way situations, and now I tend to avoid them like the plague. While I know at one point, we all must sacrifice to serve others -- I certainly understand that -- but what I try to stay away from are situations that are sustained by co-dependency, emotional manipulation, and gaslighting. I have had multiple situations (hairdresser, neighbor, etc.,) in which someone saw me as being "normal" or a "good girl" and wanted me to be friends with their adult child who was struggling. The person who wanted me to befriend their adult child saw me as being someone who could work around their adult child's specific needs. Nothing much was ever asked about myself or what my own special needs might be, so I politely declined any such "offers."

One of my most pressing conversations with God as of late is who has the right to label ME as "normal" -- and what are they allowed to expect of or from me because of it.

Honestly I would not let it get to you. Self righteousness comes in many forms and flavors. With the current flavor being a race to get a gold medal in the oppression Olympics or amassing the most victim points. That is all some folks have as their claim. You are hating it because lets face it you are smart and deep down you know you are being talked to condescendingly.

When they are saying be glad you are normal, if they were more honest with their words they would just say look at me how I carry so many burdens look how special I am because I can deal. People love to brag and love to sound the trumpet so they are noticed. Life has taught me folks who really have pain or true struggles tend to hide what is really going on. The folks telling be glad you are normal have just sounded a trumpet and now are waiting for you to reply back oh wow I had no clue you show no signs. You really are good at dealing with it.

They are telling you that you are normal because they are saying look at me and see how you can't walk in my shoes so give me the praise I feel I deserve boost my ego. In the world I was not not nice enough to hold my tongue so would just reply. I hope you never lose all that drama and problems in your life because it seems to be the only thing interesting about you to hide how boring you are.

You are a encourager and from what I see love to get involved with people is just a natural gift the Lord has placed in you. So I would encourage you to not burn yourself out using it on people who are just sounding a trumpet vs those who could really stand to hear a kind word or have a friend or shoulder to just really bare their soul on.

So worry not I would say that the reason being called normal bothers you is deep down you are aware that some folks are just using your Godly gift as a boost for their ego and you realize they are being condescending as they do so.

 

[stilllearning]

Overall as to the questioning of labeling and accepting labels or not. Not sure what to think about it. It sounds eerily familiar to the cry I recall in the 70's when folks would say I am a name not a number. So don't really have a broad answer for the overall question reckon will just have to do a case by case basis as not always sure of the motivation behind when folks say don't label me. Is this just a current fad of people saying so like the 70's I am a name not a number.

Is it folks using it to say accept my life style and what I am involved in even if it runs counter to your faith and beliefs or is it really someone who is beat down and feels like giving up. So in the general really have no answer as I am missing data for the overall. However, on a case by case basis it would depend on the person and how they are saying it and how they are using the term.

 

[Lanolin]

bump for @Seeking-Christ

regarding ADD or ADHD

 

[Seeking-Christ]

I printed and read this.

Hey Everyone,

This is a subject I've been thinking about quite often as I navigate new territory in life.

Since I'm the only single person without kids in my family, it was decided (and agreed upon by myself) that I needed to learn a few things from family members to act as a back-up in case someone got sick or passed on. The nature of the work is completely unnatural to me, as it involves a lot of numbers and book work. I am the type of person who always thinks in words, pictures, and emotions, so numbers have never been my strong point. If you would have told me 10 years ago that I would be doing this, I probably would have said, "Sorry, I'm just not good at math -- I never have been, and I never will be, and I could never do that."_

I'm the kind of person who will plug 2 x 2 into the calculator -- not because I don't know the answer, but because I don't trust myself to keep that number in my head as I'm adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing 20 more. I was once told by someone I highly respect that I should probably go to a doctor because this person felt I most likely have ADHD. This observation was backed by personal experience, and after doing some research, I could definitely see myself as qualifying. However, I've also read the checklists of a number of other disabilities and disorders and I think I could easily qualify for a few, if not all of those as well. For now, I would just rather not know because if I do have these things, so far I've found a way around them.

It took about 8 months, but I finally had my "Helen Keller moment" when everything my family was trying to teach me finally started to "click." I asked God to expand my understanding, and now, about a year later, I've developed a craving to start learning on my own, and while I have to repeat the same lesson or video or speech MULTIPLE times and still take notes every time, it's finally starting to sink in. I always explain to people who are trying to teach me something, "I'm sorry, but my brain only picks up 1 or 2 pieces of information at a time. I need to have things repeated to me, often with some time in between, because my brain will then pick up different points each time, and I have to repeat it until I've learned all the most important points." And even though I've been that way all my life, it took up until probably the last 5 years that I could actually explain it to someone.

Learning has always been like this for me. School was an immense struggle that I hated. I COULD learn things and I did well in school, but it was an uphill climb on a snowy hill in bare feet the whole time. Meanwhile, I had a relative who could skip all the minor homework assignments, not study 'til the last minute before the major tests, and still wind up with at least a B.

I grew up right before the time that labeling children and giving them prescriptions seemed to be the answer to everything. Now as a disclaimer, please note that I am NOT AT ALL trying to discredit, shame, or criticize ANYONE who has been diagnosed with something, knows someone or has a child who is going through this, and/or is seeking the recommended treatment. I'm very open about having gone to counselors and doctors for depression in the past, so I am most certainly not above a diagnose and resulting treatment.

But what strikes me is that I have no doubt that I would have been labeled something, or some things, as a child, and I wonder how that would have affected me. A relative in my own household was treated for "irregular speech" problems and a supposed inability to read. That person then grew up to not only read 500-page novels for fun, but also has a flourishing career.

A highly respected member of a church I attended was told all his life that he was stupid and nothing but trouble. His class voted him "Most Likely to Go to Prison," and he was able to hide the fact that he could not read right up through his mid-20's. And yet, he later became a chiropractor and professional speaker whose engagements included universities, the United States military, and even the White House.

I know these stories are a bit of a one in a million, but I have two other friends with similar tales.

How much should we, especially as Christians, accept the labels we or others are given as limits, and how far should we push to try to overcome what we can, to the best that God enables us?

* What kinds of labels have you (or others around you) been given, and how has it affected the person given the label? (Only share if you would like to; I know this is a highly personal question.)

* Do you think you escaped being labeled certain things? How did this help or hinder you? (Did it spare you being held back, or did it keep you from seeking treatment you think you might have benefited from?)

* Have you pushed back against being labeled? How far did you find you can go?

Please know that I'm certainly not trying to say that any or all things can be overcome. I am never going to understand Physics or Statistics -- I was getting good grades in all my other classes, but those areas always held my GPA back. I just saw it as a God-given academic Achilles tendon to keep me from relying on myself.

This is just me speaking for myself, but I am personally grateful I wasn't labeled as a child because I'm pretty sure I would have grown into the characteristics of the label rather than into myself (whoever that may be -- I'm still asking God about that one!)

We all know that even the Apostle Paul was given "a thorn in the flesh" that God refused to take away, saying, "My grace is sufficient for you" (1 Corinthians 12:9.)

But in a world where almost everyone seems to be labeled with "something," how much should we pay attention to such "diagnoses," and how much should we rely on God to possibly break past the limitations we've been given?

I am eager to hear your stories.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

Then I printed and read this

And I need to clarify here that I am most certainly not trying to dismiss or reduce any actual medical conditions as "mere labels." But what I am saying is that the very community, even if they are professionals, misdiagnoses or incorrectly assesses people all the time. At the time I was in college, Ritalin was seen as an almost automatic answer to any parent whose child was having behavioral problems, and the medical community was just starting to talk about how suspicions that many of these cases were being inaccurately diagnosed. (Not to mention when patients are purposely misdiagnosed for money/insurance reasons...)

But I also have to say that there is a flipside to this flapjack that really got the whole ball rolling for me.

I am starting to absolutely LOATHE the "label" of... drumroll... being "NORMAL."

I know this is probably just me being nit picky or even ungrateful, but I am finding more and more that I run into people who will tell me something like, "I have X, Y, and Z -- you know, things that a NORMAL/NEUROTYPICAL person like you just wouldn't understand." That may be true in some ways, but what gets to me is if the person then seems to think that just because I'm "normal", I am somehow obliged to completely cater to what they see is their own set of special needs -- without ever stopping to think or ask about my own.

I'm sure I've had many incidences in my own life in which the other person is "normal" and I'M the one who is "atypical." For instance, the stereotype that Asians are mathematical geniuses -- and here I was, an Asian who was always failing math classes. I know that's a petty example, but my point is simply that every person has had some kind of struggle that makes them sensitive to something.

Now of course, people have real medical issues and absolutely need special care or extra help -- I'm most certainly not docking that at all. I always try to use myself as an example, as I got to a point where I had to try to explain to friends and family why I might react certain ways or need certain conditions when my depression acted up, so I understand a little bit of what it's like to have specific conditions going on.

But the thing I'm talking about is, for example, a YouTuber I had unsubscribed to because every video became a matter of, "This is what I have, this is how it affects me, and this is how ALL YOU NORMAL PEOPLE OUT THERE should be working around my needs because of it!"

I had to stop watching her because everything was about her, and there was never any recognition of what others might be going through and how she could be sensitive to their needs as well. I realize that in some cases, the person might be incapable of doing this, but I often wonder if people like this have even tried.

I spent a few decades of my life trapped in one-way situations, and now I tend to avoid them like the plague. While I know at one point, we all must sacrifice to serve others -- I certainly understand that -- but what I try to stay away from are situations that are sustained by co-dependency, emotional manipulation, and gaslighting. I have had multiple situations (hairdresser, neighbor, etc.,) in which someone saw me as being "normal" or a "good girl" and wanted me to be friends with their adult child who was struggling. The person who wanted me to befriend their adult child saw me as being someone who could work around their adult child's specific needs. Nothing much was ever asked about myself or what my own special needs might be, so I politely declined any such "offers."

One of my most pressing conversations with God as of late is who has the right to label ME as "normal" -- and what are they allowed to expect of or from me because of it.

I don't know what to say about all of this... People are complicated, and it seems that everyone labels people. Sometimes the label is right and sometimes it's wrong. I don't think people are as slow at judging others as they should be. I don't think most people are doing a very good job of imagining themselves in the other person's shoes before they come up with the label.

You asked for stories.

I didn't pass kindergarten. So i was put in a readiness class. I don't know how in the world I can remember that far back, but I do! I even get flashbacks from those days, and sometimes wish I could go back. Not that everything was perfect or anything. But in comparison to what I'm dealing with now days, it was a lot simpler time. I even had a girl friend in kindergarten. But during first grade something strange happened, girls didn't seem to like me so much anymore. My relationship with girls declined so bad that I didn't even hardly talk to any of them because they seemed to think I was worthless and annoying, even though I wasn't doing anything to them. That same trend continued until i graduated High School.... ANYWAYS! I was diagnosed with a learning disability in readiness. For the first 5 years of my years in Elementary School, I had to go to special classes. They also changed my spelling lists and a few other things. But by the time I got into the 5th grade, they wanted to take me out of special classes. But I found myself in between. Not good enough to completely do it all on my own, and yet too good for the program. As a result they doubled my school work, and they took all my recesses away from me. I spent detention with all the trouble makers, every day. Not because I was doing anything wrong, but because I couldn't do all my extra work. My parents, didn't want to take me out of the program because they were told from an other parent, that once your taken out then it's really hard to get back in. After 5th grade, they finally put me on a tether. That meant, I was allowed to try and make it on my own. But if I needed help then I could get some... Thanks to the program, back then, I was not required to pass the istep tests. But I hear that now days everyone must pass it. If that was true back then, I probably wouldn't have graduated High School.

I'm not entirely sure what all I said has to do with labels, and I might be able to go on with my story. But I want to stop my story here, for now.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

People have asked me if I liked my High School or not. It is hard question to answer because my answer is negative. And I don't like to pass on negativity. I do that plenty already. But anyways, it depended on what level you were on. If you were on the higher levels, the people tended to be nicer. But if you were on the lower levels, the people tended to be meaner and more sinful. That was my experience with it.

 

[Lanolin]

interesting
People thought I was dumb and couldnt speak English because I didnt talk much. So they didnt talk to me and avoided me. I dont remember having many boyfriends in primary school. Most of my friends were girls. It was because boys played bullrush and I was too little and I didnt like going on the grass in barefeet (prickles!!) like everyone else did.

there was really no such diagnoses around called ADD or ADHD that I knew of when I was in primary, but we did know of one boy who suffered from epilepsy, who actually did have a seizure once at school. Otherwise, everyone just learned with everyone else. It was only high school that was streamed. It happens much later in nz, that you get tested. I was then put in the 'brainy class'.

I think they recognised I was what they called 'gifted and talented' and so was put in an extra writing class, but it just meant we had to do MORE work lol. I loved homework, I would spend hours doing it because I liked creativity. My parents never had to help me do it. They only thing I remember them helping with was spelling but its only testing me on it.

In high school it was different , it was boring. There was hardly any creativity. It was pretty much just copying stuff off the board. Or answering questions out of text books. I liked doing projects where I set my own things I wanted to inquire about.

I was 'handicapped' in other ways though. I was terrible at sports and uncoordinated because of short sightedness. I still cant really swim. I had lessons but I was just never natural at it. I dont like the water much anyway it gets up my nose and I cant see anything underwater!

But I can ride a bike and drive a car. Some people cant ride a bike cos they never learned and never tried. But thats different. Some people cant do things cos they had never been taught properly. Im mostly self taught but I just couldnt teach myself to swim and I am a bit hopeless at it.

It would be a dream if I could really do it and dive and just do it naturally like others can.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

I still cant really swim. I had lessons but I was just never natural at it. I dont like the water much anyway it gets up my nose and I cant see anything underwater!

When I swim, I have a special problem. I don't know of anyone else that has this problem. When I kick my feet, instead of going forward, I go slowly backwards.

 

[Lanolin]

When I swim, I have a special problem. I don't know of anyone else that has this problem. When I kick my feet, instead of going forward, I go slowly backwards.

well I dont really go anywhere. Kicking my feet doesnt help me at all lol
I need to have a kick board so I dont need to put my head under the water and can float.

 

[TheNarrowPath]

In schools this seems to be the go to. If the student throws a chair across the room they might have autism. Lets get them tested. Lets get funding ...
I think labels can sometimes be a negative for a child. Sometimes the child doesnt aspire to be anything because their label told them what they are and nothing more. Sometimes other factors should be considered such as home environment, class environment, health etc When I was a child, teachers thought I was shy. They wrote it in my reports. I was not shy but nobody asked me the right questions. I took part in speech contests, I had friends at school. I just didnt trust some adults from my own experiences. So Im very careful to not label children if I can help it.

 

[Lanolin]

I try not to have too many chairs in the library cos I hate stacking them. I only have arm chairs to heavy to lift, wheely chairs, and cushions. And just one plastic chair that I use as a stool.

I mean it is rather idiotic to throw chairs but thats why those with sensory issues need hug blankets. Theyre special blankets with weights on them. to calm them down.