Life of a Christian

[RaceBoy]

The point of this thread is to have a debate on what life as a Christian is suppose to be like. When Jesus was on this earth, there were verses in the bible saying that we should sell all that we have and follow him. IMO this is a controversial statement as that all but guarantees you'll never have anything in this life.

Enter into the straight gate, for broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many go to it. Enter into the narrow gate, for narrow is the way and few will find it.

Some of Jesus' teachings seem, at first glance, unreasonable. It seems like God doesn't want us to have anything on this earth, and expects us to be (or live) a certain while we are suffering. Christians being persecuted around the world for nothing but expressing their faith. Hatred directed at Christians making it nearly impossible to make friends with anyone other then a fellow Christian (understandable though), etc.
All these things make feel that God can be unfair, but that's not really my question. My question is mostly a confirmation. Are we suppose to just "drop it all" and forget about marriage and children? To forget about working and setting one's self for success? And to expect constant suffering with little to no breaks, while serving God (nothing wrong with that) and waiting for some unknown date for him to return?

 

[Magenta]

When Jesus was on this earth, there were verses in the bible saying that we should sell all that we have and follow him.

To whom was this said? The rich young ruler?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @RaceBoy, the first command given to us by God, "be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth" (Genesis 1:28), has never been rescinded, and the NT is filled with instructions to husbands and wives, so no, we are not supposed to forget about marriage and children (unless we are specially called to do so by God, that is) .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 7; Ephesians 5:22-33; 1 Peter 3:1-7.

Also, there is nothing wrong with working hard and ending up being successful in this life, as long you remember that seeking after $$/power/success/ease/comfort (as an end in itself, even to a degree) means that you are seeking after the things of this world instead of the things of God, which never ends well for those of us who are aliens and strangers here (because we are now citizens of a far better country).

There is a simple, Biblical formula to follow for getting all that you desire (a command with a promise attached to it actually), and here it is,

Psalm 37​

4 Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.​

Now, the key to properly obeying God's command in this case, and to (thereby) receiving the wonderful promise that He made to those of us who do, is to place ALL of your attention on seeking after/delighting yourself in Him, and NONE of it on things that you think you want from Him (I realize that this may seem like backwards thinking, of course, so do many/most things in God's economy, yes? .. cf John 11:25-26; Romans 8:13; 2 Corinthians 12:10).

It is also important to be sure that you are delighting YOURSELF in Him (rather than attempting to delight Him), as if our relationship with Him is based upon a quid pro quo (He is not/never will be, a kind of, Cosmic Sugar Daddy )

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - suffering as a Christian is to be expected .. e.g. 2 Timothy 3:12, but never regretted .. e.g. Acts 5:41; Romans 8:28; Hebrews 12:7-11.

"I've learned to kiss the waves that throw me up against the Rock of Ages". ~Pastor/Theologian Charles Spurgeon​

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"Our vision is so limited we can hardly imagine a love that does not show itself in protection from suffering…. The love of God did not protect His own Son…. He will not necessarily protect us – not from anything it takes to make us like His Son." ~Missionary Elisabeth Elliot​

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"Instead of a river, God often gives us a brook, which many be running today and dried up tomorrow. Why To teach us not to rest in our blessings, but in the Blesser Himself" ~Theologian/Pastor Arthur W. Pink​

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[Deuteronomy]

To whom was this said? The rich young ruler?

Hello Magenta, yes, but to a more general audience as well in other places, such as this passage (Luke 12:13-34), where the Lord Jesus is teaching against covetousness).

Luke 12​

33 Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys. ​

34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.​

God bless you

~Deut
p.s. - of course, the OP question (which is a very important one) remains, are we/are we not to supposed to obey such commands My (quick) answer is that we should always be prepared to do so, as we sense the leading of the Holy Spirit to do so, or not. In any/every case however, our "stuff" (and especially, getting more of it) should never be our focus, yes?
.

 

[RaceBoy]

Gonna take some thinking...

 

[Deuteronomy]

Gonna take some thinking...

Hello again RaceBoy, being sanctified and growing in our relationship with God means not only becoming less and less sinful/more and more righteous, but also growing less and less dependent upon ourselves and more and more dependent upon Him.

Here's a short excerpt from a section of Calvin's, Institutes of the Christian Religion, that addresses this topic (part 1 of 6 actually). If you (or anyone else who is reading or posting to this thread) are John Calvin haters (due to his particular understanding of soteriology), no worries, as this section of Institutes has nothing whatsoever to do with his teachings on soteriology

*(the text in bold below, as well all but one of the paragraph breaks, were all added by me, just FYI)

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MEDITATION ON THE FUTURE LIFE
(By our tribulations God weans us from excessive love of this present life, 1–2)​

​

1. The vanity of this life​

Whatever kind of tribulation presses upon us, we must ever look to this end: to accustom ourselves to contempt for the present life and to be aroused thereby to meditate upon the future life. For since God knows best how much we are inclined by nature to a brutish love of this world, he uses the fittest means to draw us back and to shake off our sluggishness, lest we cleave too tenaciously to that love. ​

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There is not one of us, indeed, who does not wish to seem throughout his life to aspire and strive after heavenly immortality. For it is a shame for us to be no better than brute beasts, whose condition would be no whit inferior to our own if there were not left to us hope of eternity after death. But if you examine the plans, the efforts, the deeds, of anyone, there you will find nothing else but earth. ​

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Now our blockishness arises from the fact that our minds, stunned by the empty dazzlement of riches, power, and honors, become so deadened that they can see no farther. The heart also, occupied with avarice, ambition, and lust, is so weighed down that it cannot rise up higher. In fine, the whole soul, enmeshed in the allurements of the flesh, seeks its happiness on earth. ​

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To counter this evil the Lord instructs his followers in the vanity of the present life by continual proof of its miseries. Therefore, that they may not promise themselves a deep and secure peace in it, he permits them often to be troubled and plagued either with wars or tumults, or robberies, or other injuries. That they may not pant with too great eagerness after fleeting and transient riches, or repose in those which they possess, he sometimes by exile, sometimes by barrenness of the earth, sometimes by fire, sometimes by other means, reduces them to poverty, or at least confines them to a moderate station. That they may not too complacently take delight in the goods of marriage, he either causes them to be troubled by the depravity of their wives or humbles them by evil offspring, or afflicts them with bereavement. But if, in all these matters, he is more indulgent toward them, yet, that they may not either be puffed up with vainglory or exult in self-assurance, he sets before their eyes, through diseases and perils, how unstable and fleeting are all the goods that are subject to mortality.​

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Then only do we rightly advance by the discipline of the cross, when we learn that this life, judged in itself, is troubled, turbulent, unhappy in countless ways, and in no respect clearly happy; that all those things which are judged to be its goods are uncertain, fleeting, vain, and vitiated by many intermingled evils. From this, at the same time, we conclude that in this life we are to seek and hope for nothing but struggle; when we think of our crown, we are to raise our eyes to heaven. For this we must believe: that the mind is never seriously aroused to desire and ponder the life to come unless it be previously imbued with contempt for the present life.​

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~Calvin, J. (2011). Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3/Chapter 9/Part 1 (J. T. McNeill, Ed.; F. L. Battles, Trans.; Vol. 1, pp. 712–713).​

Some of the harsher 'sounding' things in this part (like the last sentiment in the last sentence) are softened later by Calvin in the last 5 parts of this section of Institutes (so, some of the above will, unfortunately, be misunderstood, to one degree or another, because it cannot be understood in context with the rest of this section, just FYI, but the general point that Calvin makes here is still an important one, even so). BTW, if you'd like to read more, I will be happy to include the additional parts of this section (just let me know).

God bless you!!

~Deut

"The secret is Christ in me, not me in a different set of circumstances" ~Missionary/author Elisabeth Elliot​

.​

 

[Gideon300]

The point of this thread is to have a debate on what life as a Christian is suppose to be like. When Jesus was on this earth, there were verses in the bible saying that we should sell all that we have and follow him. IMO this is a controversial statement as that all but guarantees you'll never have anything in this life.

Enter into the straight gate, for broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many go to it. Enter into the narrow gate, for narrow is the way and few will find it.

Some of Jesus' teachings seem, at first glance, unreasonable. It seems like God doesn't want us to have anything on this earth, and expects us to be (or live) a certain while we are suffering. Christians being persecuted around the world for nothing but expressing their faith. Hatred directed at Christians making it nearly impossible to make friends with anyone other then a fellow Christian (understandable though), etc.
All these things make feel that God can be unfair, but that's not really my question. My question is mostly a confirmation. Are we suppose to just "drop it all" and forget about marriage and children? To forget about working and setting one's self for success? And to expect constant suffering with little to no breaks, while serving God (nothing wrong with that) and waiting for some unknown date for him to return?

No. The Christian life is, for most people, completely normal. Christians should be working, marrying and raising kids. There are exceptions, depending on God's calling. Some are called to ministry and will be supported by the church. Some may choose not to marry and so avoid the responsibilities of family life.

Paul says that forbidding people the right to marry is wrong. He also said that everyone should work to provide for their own needs. Persecution is a real problem in many countries. No one should go looking for trouble. It will come anyway. Suffering is a part of life, for Christian and unbeliever alike. Christian suffering at least has a purpose. God uses it to bring us closer to Him, more dependent on Jesus and less on ourselves.

Persecution in the "Christian" nations (not so many can claim that these days) is not so common. I've been saved over 50 years. I have suffered overt persecution twice in that time. And God's grace is always sufficient, no matter what comes our way.

The Christian life should be one of great joy and peace of heart. We should not be troubled by the cares of the world or seek to get rich. God has promised to meet our needs.

The narrow gate is Christ crucified. Sin is nowhere near as great an enemy as self. To be kingdom people, we must hand our lives over to Jesus completely. He must be lord of our lives in reality, not just in words. Every Christian will face at least one moment of truth when self will and God's will clash. Like Jesus, we need to say, "Not my will but yours". I learned that God's will is better than anything that I could work out for myself. I did not know that when I had my "Gethsemane" moment. I've had a number of similar experiences since that first time. God knows how to work in our lives to bring us to maturity.

 

[RaceBoy]

No. The Christian life is, for most people, completely normal. Christians should be working, marrying and raising kids. There are exceptions, depending on God's calling. Some are called to ministry and will be supported by the church. Some may choose not to marry and so avoid the responsibilities of family life.

Paul says that forbidding people the right to marry is wrong. He also said that everyone should work to provide for their own needs. Persecution is a real problem in many countries. No one should go looking for trouble. It will come anyway. Suffering is a part of life, for Christian and unbeliever alike. Christian suffering at least has a purpose. God uses it to bring us closer to Him, more dependent on Jesus and less on ourselves.

Persecution in the "Christian" nations (not so many can claim that these days) is not so common. I've been saved over 50 years. I have suffered overt persecution twice in that time. And God's grace is always sufficient, no matter what comes our way.

The Christian life should be one of great joy and peace of heart. We should not be troubled by the cares of the world or seek to get rich. God has promised to meet our needs.

The narrow gate is Christ crucified. Sin is nowhere near as great an enemy as self. To be kingdom people, we must hand our lives over to Jesus completely. He must be lord of our lives in reality, not just in words. Every Christian will face at least one moment of truth when self will and God's will clash. Like Jesus, we need to say, "Not my will but yours". I learned that God's will is better than anything that I could work out for myself. I did not know that when I had my "Gethsemane" moment. I've had a number of similar experiences since that first time. God knows how to work in our lives to bring us to maturity.

But yet there are a few Christians I know that say you must sell all you have and leave everything, or you won't go to heaven. (basically have no life)
But are they correct in what they're saying?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Try it. I have done it a few times in my life, and every single time led to adventures and things I seen that you people will not believe even if I were to write them, and myself still am astounded by. Also every time I ended up gaining back more money than i gave away in the initial reset. This is good to do if you are a man. Don't worry about having a family, frankly most the women and men are not capable of being married in the eyes of God anymore. Go forsake all and go on an adventure with God, especially if you are a young man. Go see and experience and live. I highly recommend to take this passage literally and try it for yourself if you are young and able-bodied still. Don't be afraid, you will be glad by the end of your adventure as long as you stay with Jesus.

 

[Deuteronomy]

...there are a few Christians I know that say you must sell all you have and leave everything, or you won't go to heaven. (basically have no life) But are they correct in what they're saying?

Hello again RaceBoy, perhaps it would be best for you (going forward) to stop listening to what a random voice has to say here or there (about what the truth is) and consider the teaching of the church's 'chorus of voices' first and foremost (along, of course, with what the Bible has to say).

We do, after all, have a recorded history/teaching that stretches over millennia, so why not listen to what the many churches & denominations teach/have always taught collectively/as ONE voice (which, BTW, is a voice that includes millions of scholars .. theologians, church doctors, linguists, historians, priests, pastors, etc. .. who have studied and agreed with one another about this topic over millennia now) instead of the lonely, random, contrary voice out there, posing as some sort of authority (or, at the very least, consider what the church teaches/has always taught historically and go from there).

So, while some of our churches/denominations encourage the living of a simple life as being the ideal, or at least advantageous for some, NONE of them have ever REQUIRED it for the majority of us, and neither does the Bible.

Perhaps a simple life, one that you choose to set apart to God, is something that you may want to experience for yourself (as @A-Sword-Cometh just recommended above), and there is nothing wrong with doing do, but again, no one is saying that you MUST lead such a life to be/remain saved.

Finally, why not talk to your pastor about this and see what he has to say

God bless you!!

~Deut

 

[Gideon300]

But yet there are a few Christians I know that say you must sell all you have and leave everything, or you won't go to heaven. (basically have no life)
But are they correct in what they're saying?

No. For example, the account of Ananias and Sapphira makes it clear that what they did with their property was up to them. Their sin was to lie about their supposed gift.
Acts 5:
1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife’s full knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds for himself, but brought a portion and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and withhold some of the proceeds from the land? 4Did it not belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How could you conceive such a deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God!”

Lord Jesus spoke to some people specifically, not to everyone. He did not require the man who was delivered from Legion to sell everything and follow Him.

 

[RaceBoy]

No. For example, the account of Ananias and Sapphira makes it clear that what they did with their property was up to them. Their sin was to lie about their supposed gift.
Acts 5:
1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife’s full knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds for himself, but brought a portion and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and withhold some of the proceeds from the land? 4Did it not belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How could you conceive such a deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God!”

Lord Jesus spoke to some people specifically, not to everyone. He did not require the man who was delivered from Legion to sell everything and follow Him.

Thanks everyone... There's this person (Ryan Robinson) who kinda takes some Bible verses literally (some of the things he says makes sense, but others not so much), such as not calling anyone father (honor your mother and father) and to call our dad by his first name instead. Then there's selling all that we own. Which he says is a requirement to follow Jesus, and that we can't be real Christians if we don't, etc. Some of my friends and family have said that he's wrong and I'm just looking for the final confirmation. So I can stop listening to him then?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Perhaps a simple life, one that you choose to set apart to God, is something that you may want to experience for yourself (as @A-Sword-Cometh just recommended above), and there is nothing wrong with doing do, but again, no one is saying that you MUST lead such a life to be/remain saved.

~Deut

I want to be very clear I am not saying to have a simple life or that it will be simple if anyone does this thing that Lord Jesus said to do.

What I am trying to convey is that it is possible, and also that yes, young men should do it. They should try at least. It only looks daunting before you try it and at the first try, but fear is no good for a man, especially the young men. Forsake all churches and pastors and give away your money. Forsake your family and hometown and strike out somewhere totally new and at square one too. If you (the OP or any reader really) are a young man, try it at least; what do you really have to lose? It is better to try when you are younger too and have the strength of your youth at the least and you have more to potentially gain if you do what God says to do and stay in the faith of the Lord Jesus.

 

[joecoten]

One of the most important things I learned to do as a Christian was to think for myself. When you're young, you can learn from others...but don't allow them to think for you. I paid a price to learn this. Sigh!

 

[Deuteronomy]

There's this person (Ryan Robinson) who kinda takes some Bible verses literally (some of the things he says makes sense, but others not so much), such as not calling anyone father (honor your mother and father) and to call our dad by his first name instead. Then there's selling all that we own. Which he says is a requirement to follow Jesus, and that we can't be real Christians if we don't, etc. Some of my friends and family have said that he's wrong and I'm just looking for the final confirmation. So I can stop listening to him then?

Yes.

 

[JohnDB]

1John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[Gideon300]

Thanks everyone... There's this person (Ryan Robinson) who kinda takes some Bible verses literally (some of the things he says makes sense, but others not so much), such as not calling anyone father (honor your mother and father) and to call our dad by his first name instead. Then there's selling all that we own. Which he says is a requirement to follow Jesus, and that we can't be real Christians if we don't, etc. Some of my friends and family have said that he's wrong and I'm just looking for the final confirmation. So I can stop listening to him then?

Yes. Ignore him. There is such a thing as spiritual common sense. John said, "I'm writing to you, fathers........" There was a great lack in the Jerusalem church at one time. Paul arranged for the other churches to give money to help the church in Jerusalem. If all the Christians had given everything away, how could they help others or their own families?

For sure be a giver. But not to the point where you are unable to provide for your family. I got caught up in this foolishness. I gave away so much that I had nothing left for my car repayment. I expected a cheque in the mail for a a vast amount of money. It never came. I almost had the car repossessed. There was no blessing at all. It was a hard but good lesson.

 

[RaceBoy]

Yes. Ignore him. There is such a thing as spiritual common sense. John said, "I'm writing to you, fathers........" There was a great lack in the Jerusalem church at one time. Paul arranged for the other churches to give money to help the church in Jerusalem. If all the Christians had given everything away, how could they help others or their own families?

For sure be a giver. But not to the point where you are unable to provide for your family. I got caught up in this foolishness. I gave away so much that I had nothing left for my car repayment. I expected a cheque in the mail for a a vast amount of money. It never came. I almost had the car repossessed. There was no blessing at all. It was a hard but good lesson.

Yeah man... I read some of these verses and feel like "does Jesus really mean this?". I think Jesus is testing people trying to determine our way of thinking. Are people willing to "sell all" that they own and follow him/God? Are people willing to forsake their family and friends and just be with him/God? 90 percent of the population won't do it. So I see those verses as more of a test to see where our mindset is. They're Not IMO a requirement to get into heaven, but I could be wrong. So what I'm seeing is this Ryan Robinson IMO is trying to spread the word of God (good for him), but is taking some chapters/verses out of context, and without fully knowing what they actually mean.

But again I could be wrong...

 

[joecoten]

Yeah man... I read some of these verses and feel like "does Jesus really mean this?". I think Jesus is testing people trying to determine our way of thinking. Are people willing to "sell all" that they own and follow him/God? Are people willing to forsake their family and friends and just be with him/God? 90 percent of the population won't do it. So I see those verses as more of a test to see where our mindset is. They're Not IMO a requirement to get into heaven, but I could be wrong. So what I'm seeing is this Ryan Robinson IMO is trying to spread the word of God (good for him), but is taking some chapters/verses out of context, and without fully knowing what they actually mean.

But again I could be wrong...

I had to work through this same thing in the past and I arrived at the place where I came to believe that the Lord wants me to be willing to surrender all and not to actually give everything up. I think Robinson, like some others, may be carrying things too far.
But on the other hand, I don't want to say that Jesus would never tell someone to sell all they had. He is, after all, God.
I too believe what He said is designed to reveal our hearts to ourselves. Raceboy, you and I agree here. Good stuff!

 

[Gideon300]

Yeah man... I read some of these verses and feel like "does Jesus really mean this?". I think Jesus is testing people trying to determine our way of thinking. Are people willing to "sell all" that they own and follow him/God? Are people willing to forsake their family and friends and just be with him/God? 90 percent of the population won't do it. So I see those verses as more of a test to see where our mindset is. They're Not IMO a requirement to get into heaven, but I could be wrong. So what I'm seeing is this Ryan Robinson IMO is trying to spread the word of God (good for him), but is taking some chapters/verses out of context, and without fully knowing what they actually mean.

But again I could be wrong...

You are on the right track. It is true that we must be willing to forsake everything and everyone if that is what it takes to follow Jesus. For example, someone may be in a job that is a hindrance to them spiritually. The Lord would say they should quit. I had to give up a sport that I enjoyed because it was taking my life over.

I had a vision about this. I was like a child with a bag full of treasures. There was a penknife, torch, rope, cricket ball and other stuff. The Lord said I had to give these things up. I began to hand each item over, one by one. The Lord said to me, "Just give me the bag!" Lord Jesus wants us to hand over all that we are and and all that we have to Him. He will give back what we have surrendered, if those things do not hinder us. I was obsessed with playing guitar for several years. I quit because I saw that it was an idol. I took it up again because there was a need. Now I play only out of necessity, not because it's an obsession.