Who Justifieth the Ungodly

reneweddaybyday · Jun 12, 2022

Do not disregard what you read 8 verses prior to verse 9:

Romans 5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Quit ripping Rom 5:9 out of the context within which God placed the verse.

But I suppose "it doesnt matter" to you. You can disregard whole sections of Scripture once you go down the path of disregarding words placed in Scripture by the Author of Scripture.
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brightfame52 · Jun 13, 2022

renewed

I already have read it before and understand it. Thats why I know its a rabbit trail . Has nothing to do with Rom 12:3 and Paul's specific communication to the Church at Rome.

brightfame52 · Jun 13, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

You stated on many posts directly or indirectly that sinners Christ shed His Precious Blood for remain lost, unjustified, and can die in unbelief in their sins. Now dont you believe that ? Yes or No ?

brightfame52 · Jun 13, 2022

renewed

Thats false teaching, the whole world Christ died for is Justified by His Blood. No one unjustified by the blood of Christ, and consequently die in their sins in unbelief, cannot possibly be anyone Christ died for, not the Christ of holy scripture Isa 53:10

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Now are saying, or implying that there are people Christ died for and still die in their iniquities ?

brightfame52 · Jun 13, 2022

renewed

Those Christ died for are delivered from the wrath of God. 1 Thess 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

This comes through His Blood alone Rom 5:8-9

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

People Christ died for are saved from wrath through Christ, not by their Faith in Him.

brightfame52 · Jun 13, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

So again, all men dont have Faith. 2 Thess 3:1-2

Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

This contradicts your foolish statement that God gives all men Faith. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. If what you say is true, God must give all men, including the unregenerate dead in sin, the Holy Spirit.

brightfame52 · Jun 13, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

How does it say they were Justified in Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Does it matter what it says ?

brightfame52 · Jun 14, 2022

Understanding Justification by Faith !

When scripture states that believers are Justified by Faith or made Righteous by Faith, it does not mean that their act of faith/ believing made them Justified and or Righteous, or that the act itself is their Righteousness , however it doeth mean that the object of our Faith, Namely Christ, hath Justified us and made us Righteous. You see, God hath made Christ unto us Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

So therefore faith in its act cannot at the same time be our Righteousness Rom 4:5,9

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

In fact, The Gospel reveals or makes known our Righteousness to our Faith Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now that Righteousness of God in Vs 17 that is revealed to Faith, is that same Righteousness of God for those of us Christ was made sin for in 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So its an contradiction to understand Faith as an act of ours, to be reckoned as our Righteousness and or Justification, but rather as it persuades us that the object of our Faith, whom is Christ, has been made unto us Righteousness / Justification 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 11

Sipsey · Jun 14, 2022

In the same way that The Christ offers his shed blood ,for the remission of sins, to the world, a Doctor might prescribe a pill to save someone’s life. The bottle and instructions are delivered and sit at their bedside. If one has no faith in that Doctor, or prefers death, then they will perish, but, healing and life were offered Nonetheless.

FreeGrace2 · Jun 14, 2022

brightfame52 said:

The poster is trying to force "the ungodly" to be ONLY "the elect".

In fact, since Paul made very clear in Rom 3:9,10, and 23 that ALL are sinful, and NO ONE is righteous, before he wrote Rom 5:6, weKNOW that "the ungodly" refers to every single person in the human race. For ALL are ungodly.

To try to force "the ungodly" into ONLY "the elect" results in the conclusion that the so-called non-elect must NOT be ungodly, and therefore, don't need Christ's sacrifice.

There are no verses that say or even suggest that "the ungodly" means "the elect", as Calvinists define it.

brightfame52 · Jun 15, 2022

sipsey

This is not biblical friend, Christs Blood isnt offered save as it was Offered to His Father Heb 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Also remission of sins isnt offered, its given to Gods Elect Israel Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Lk 1:77

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

the bottle and instructions are delivered and sit at their bedside. If one has no faith in that Doctor, or prefers death, then they will perish, but, healing and life were offered Nonetheless.

Click to expand...

This Illustration falls way short of the reality of Justification. Justification is a legal term and transaction between God the Father and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, Christ met all the conditions in order the elect of God should be Justified !

Sipsey · Jun 15, 2022

brightfame52 said:

cherry picking verses to justify one’s position is a sign of insecurity, or arrogance, which are 1st cousins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV): "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." The end of Luke's Gospel notes that Jesus was the source of forgiveness or remission of sins, a message that would start in Jerusalem and spread to the ends of the earth (also Matthew 28:18-20).

Acts 10:43 (KJV): "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." When the message of Christ spread to the Gentiles, the same mention of forgiveness of sins was included.

brightfame52 · Jun 16, 2022

Understanding Justification by Faith ! 2

Again,

When scripture states that believers are Justified by Faith or made Righteous by Faith, it does not mean that their act of faith/ believing made them Justified and or Righteous, or that the act itself is their Righteousness , however it doeth mean that the object of our Faith, Namely Christ, hath Justified us and made us Righteous.

You see, if Faith be not taken to mean its object being our Righteousness instead of our act of it being our Righteousness as the antichrist followers sayeth it means, then the very grounds for contrasting Justification by Faith from Justification by our works is eliminated and comes to nought, and even Paul has contradicted himself along with the scripture, in that Faith / believing is an act of ours, and no less a work we do !

So Faith looks at the object which is our Righteousness, that being the results of the Person and Work of Christ on our behalf, having satisfied for us all of God's Law and Justice and having had His Righteousness laid to our charge , these facts being revealed in the Gospel of our Salvation Rom 1:16-17; Eph 1:13 !

brightfame52 · Jun 16, 2022

Sipsey said:

cherry picking verses to justify one’s position is a sign of insecurity, or arrogance, which are 1st cousins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV): "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." The end of Luke's Gospel notes that Jesus was the source of forgiveness or remission of sins, a message that would start in Jerusalem and spread to the ends of the earth (also Matthew 28:18-20).

Acts 10:43 (KJV): "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." When the message of Christ spread to the Gentiles, the same mention of forgiveness of sins was included.

Again, nothing has been offered except Christ offered Himself to God. You are in error and wont admit it.

reneweddaybyday · Jun 17, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Really? So you do understand that the guy who had been given a talent (the measure of faith - Rom 12:3). Yet he wasted what had been given and that which had been given was taken away. The guy ended up cast into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Each servant had received from the lord of the servants and each servant utilized what he had been given as he saw fit.

The servants who had gained advantage with what he had been given were rewarded and entered into the joy of the lord.

The one who did nothing with what he had received was cast into outer darkness.

God does not withhold anything from mankind in order for mankind to respond to Him when He reaches out to us. When God reaches out, there are some who reject Him ... not because they do not have faith to believe ... but because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... just as we are shown in Romans 1:18-20. They are without excuse because they have been given all that is needed to believe the gospel of Christ, but they turn from the gospel to their own surmisings (man's wisdom) ... thereby suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 17, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Your heart is hardened against any reproof and your continued pursuit of something to hang on me in order to justify/rationalize your behavior is nothing but a waste of time.

Please move along ...
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 17, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Nope, it's straight Scripture:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You can deny all you want ... your denial of Scripture does not affect the truth of Scripture. Your denial only affects you in your relationship with God.
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 17, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Your response does not address the error in your dogma which I pointed out in Post 1516.

Let's refresh your memory:

In Post 1510, you stated:

This security from the wrath of God has nothing to do with mans faith, or repentance

In Post 1516, I replied to your statement:

According to Scripture, the above statement is not true ...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

You can deny all you want ... your denial of Scripture does not affect the truth of Scripture. Your denial only affects you in your relationship with God.

Address the issue, brightfame52.

You claim no faith or repentance is required.

Scripture plainly states faith and repentance are required.

Align your dogma to Scripture. Do not attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 17, 2022

brightfame52 said:

We've gone over the error in your interpretation of 2 Thess 3:2. You have no problem with the translators removing a word from Scripture which renders your understanding of the verse to be in error.

All men have not the faith ... which would be the Christian faith ... the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16)

Paul asks for prayer ... for deliverance from men of other faiths who are unreasonable and wicked ... so that the word of the Lord (the gospel) may have free course, and be glorified.

But, of course, your dogma will not allow you to have faith in the true and accurate understanding of the verse, so it's okay with you if a word is removed here, or if a word is changed there ...

brightfame52 said:

Actually, that is exactly what you believe.

Since (according to you) "faith is the fruit of the Spirit", you've got people born again before they can believe the gospel by which they are born again. You've got the cart before the horse.

And then, we must also consider the fact that love is the fruit of the Spirit as well. Are you saying that natural man cannot love because love is the fruit of the Spirit?

What about temperance (self control)? No natural men have self control?

How about patience? No natural men are patient?

Or is it only faith that you claim is withheld from mankind ... or given only to the "elect" so that the "elect" is born again and has fruit of the Spirit so he/she can believe the gospel by which he/she is born again ?
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reneweddaybyday · Jun 17, 2022

brightfame52 said:

"How does it say they were Justified in" Rom 5:1

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Does it matter what it says ? "
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Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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