Why most Christians are going to hell?

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S

Seeking-Christ

Guest
#1
#1
One lonely night, I started searching around the internet for answers to my problems. Looking at scriptures and article etc, when I found this interesting youtube channel. He's one of those guys who believes that in order to be saved you must be sinless. His view is that once you got the holy spirit you are capable or resisting all sin. It's hard for me to argue against the scriptures He presents. He's a guy a who knows his bible. Perhaps good enough to be dangerous.

Here is the channel if you like to browse the videos.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CollinMichael/videos

I feel that I should pick a short video so that you can get the vibe of this individual.

This is called " Why most Christians are going to hell. "


You probably should take a look around his channel, and watch the video before talking to me about this.

I would love to hear your ideas as to why you think this guy is wrong. Or why you think this guy is right.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#2
Mar 18, 2021
5,311
3,137
113
#2
Seeking-Christ said:
One lonely night, I started searching around the internet for answers to my problems. Looking at scriptures and article etc, when I found this interesting youtube channel. He's one of those guys who believes that in order to be saved you must be sinless. His view is that once you got the holy spirit you are capable or resisting all sin. It's hard for me to argue against the scriptures He presents. He's a guy a who knows his bible. Perhaps good enough to be dangerous.

Here is the channel if you like to browse the videos.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CollinMichael/videos

I feel that I should pick a short video so that you can get the vibe of this individual.

This is called " Why most Christians are going to hell. "


You probably should take a look around his channel, and watch the video before talking to me about this.

I would love to hear your ideas as to why you think this guy is wrong. Or why you think this guy is right.
Click to expand...
Lord Jesus was speaking to people who were under the Law. He had yet to die and rise again. So sure, people needed to obey God's law in order to receive eternal life. The problem is, how? There is nothing in the human heart that can obey God. Paul declares this to be so in Romans 7.

This guy is the epitome of someone who takes a bunch of verses to promote a point of view that is contradicted by other scriptures. The Bible is not contradictory. It is people's misunderstanding that makes it appear to be so.

For example, 1 Corinthians 6:9 does not say that people who indulge in those sins go to hell. It says that they will not inherit God's kingdom. They are not the same thing. People talk about works. What did Jesus have to say?

'Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent"' (John 6:28 & 29)

Lord Jesus was asked, "What must I do...........?" on a number of occasions. His answer was to refer the enquirer to the Law. However, to Nicodemus, He gave the true secret. In order even to see the Kingdom of God, we must be born again.

I'm 100% OSAS. How can eternal life not be eternal? The confusion arises because few people understand that there are two salvations. The first is instant, the moment an individual is born again. The second is progressive, the liberation of the soul from sin, self, Satan and attachments to the world. In spirit, we are complete. In soul, we are bound by all the baggage that we bring with us.

Hebrews 12:1
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us."

We sure have a part to play in the salvation of our souls. We need to turn away from known sin, we need to deny self, carry our cross, resist the devil and have our minds renewed. However, we do all this because we are saved, not in order to be saved.

Last point: obeying God does not mean obeying the 10 commandments. Where in the commandments does it say we should in everything give thanks? It says that in the NT. It also says rejoice in the Lord always. Legalism brings nothing but condemnation on those who struggle and stinking pride to the self righteous.

I've no doubt he means well. That is the most dangerous type of individual because they can be so persuasive.
 
B

blueluna5

Well-known member
#5
Jul 30, 2018
652
390
63
#5
Seeking-Christ said:
One lonely night, I started searching around the internet for answers to my problems. Looking at scriptures and article etc, when I found this interesting youtube channel. He's one of those guys who believes that in order to be saved you must be sinless. His view is that once you got the holy spirit you are capable or resisting all sin. It's hard for me to argue against the scriptures He presents. He's a guy a who knows his bible. Perhaps good enough to be dangerous.

Here is the channel if you like to browse the videos.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CollinMichael/videos

I feel that I should pick a short video so that you can get the vibe of this individual.

This is called " Why most Christians are going to hell. "


You probably should take a look around his channel, and watch the video before talking to me about this.

I would love to hear your ideas as to why you think this guy is wrong. Or why you think this guy is right.
Click to expand...
I would say overall this guy is wrong in his message. My reasoning is that I've met an angel in my dream and so that experience has led to what I believe makes people "saved".

The idea that not every "Christian" is saved might be correct, but his logic is not. 80% of Americans say they are Christians. I find this difficult to believe considering the problems we have in this country. So many of them may not be.

On the other hand I think most Christians I know are saved even the misled ones. Here's why: God's mercy and gift of salvation do not depend on us. Even Noah who according to this man was perfect was a drunk who slept with his daughters. This idea that "I" love God. "I" love others is a very American way of looking at it. We love bc God first loved us. We simply accept and embrace the love of God. We are not separated from God. Nor can we love God, but he doesn't love us. It doesn't work that way. We are not separate.

If you believe you are not "good enough" to get into heaven you are correct. Bc you will never be good enough. You will compare yourself to god like beings and get that right away...we are different. However we are loved beyond understanding and unconditional. We are like a treasure to God or his children. If fact if you looked toward God like the God we teach to children that is the correct God. In other words God is actually like the God taught in Sunday school. Even though there's more to it and God is definitely not boring. It's the closest one to correct for how we are taught about God.

So when God or an angel approaches you out of nowhere, just go to him. You don't have to worry about what you did. Say "thank you for his love" and continue with him.
 
Mitch2019

Mitch2019

Member
#6
Jul 3, 2019
92
22
8
Here
#6
If we sin , we have an advocate before the Father . So grace covers our repentant hearts .

David sinned often but he had a heart after Gods own heart . Read his Psalms for his repentant heart .
just my thoughts . Could be totally wrong , please forgive me if this isn’t what you believe
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#7
Aug 13, 2014
27,276
9,327
113
#7
I'll pass on the video. I will waste time playing video games, reading comic strips and even puttering around on this forum, but I will not waste time watching something when I already know it's wrong.

Nothing personal. It's just that there are far too many wrong people in the world, and I don't have time to listen to all of them.
 
L

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
#8
May 19, 2022
1,383
640
113
#8
Seeking-Christ said:
One lonely night, I started searching around the internet for answers to my problems. Looking at scriptures and article etc, when I found this interesting youtube channel. He's one of those guys who believes that in order to be saved you must be sinless. His view is that once you got the holy spirit you are capable or resisting all sin. It's hard for me to argue against the scriptures He presents. He's a guy a who knows his bible. Perhaps good enough to be dangerous.

Here is the channel if you like to browse the videos.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CollinMichael/videos

I feel that I should pick a short video so that you can get the vibe of this individual.

This is called " Why most Christians are going to hell. "


You probably should take a look around his channel, and watch the video before talking to me about this.

I would love to hear your ideas as to why you think this guy is wrong. Or why you think this guy is right.
Click to expand...
I watched the video, and it contains both truth and error.

Of course, I have no problem with the "truth" part, but the "error" part could be deadly.

One example (out of a few, at least) or his error is found in how he described Job's "perfection".

Job was FAR FROM PERFECT in the manner in which this man would have you/us to believe.

IN FACT, when the LORD was through with dealing with Job, Job abhorred himself and repented in dust and ashes.

Job chapter 42

[1] Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
[2] I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
[3] Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
[4] Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
[5] I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
[6] Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Those who are "perfect" in the manner in which the man in the video described don't need to abhor themselves and repent.

Anyhow, that said, there was also a lot of truth in what the man said.

There was definitely a mixture of both truth and error in the video, but a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Seeing how that man misrepresented God and his word in his own video, I can assure you that he's far from sinless himself.

In fact, he needs to repent of certain things that he said and apparently wrongly believes and teaches.
 
S

Seeking-Christ

Guest
#9
#9
That Job thing kinda stuck out at me too. In fact I think we need to be careful of how we drag anyone from the old testament into something like this. We know that God gave his spirit and took his spirit away. Remember King Saul? Then David asked the lord not to take his spirit away from him. The old testament never made me feel like the holy spirit was for everyone. But in the new testament, it does sound like the holy spirit is for everyone. So in my opinion, if this guy believes that the holy spirit gives us all the ability to completely rid sin of our lives, then He should just stick to people in the new testament to make his points.

I don't think it even says that Job had the holy spirit. All It says is that He was God's servant. And He was a really good man, which is why God allowed Satan to target him. God knew He could make his point to Satan with Job.

I watched a lot of his long videos, and even a debate that i wasn't satisfied with. I give him credit for trying to cover all his bases. And yet, he is sold out on his view! I'm not sure if a guy like this would ever change his mind.

I wish I could be sinless.
 
Mitch2019

Mitch2019

Member
#10
Jul 3, 2019
92
22
8
Here
#10
it is written. .... God is the same yesterday. today and forever ..

All scripture is for learning . remember when that line was written in Renewed testament there was only the original Testament. The Renewed Testament didn't exist.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#11
Aug 13, 2014
27,276
9,327
113
#11
Seeking-Christ said:
I watched a lot of his long videos, and even a debate that i wasn't satisfied with. I give him credit for trying to cover all his bases. And yet, he is sold out on his view! I'm not sure if a guy like this would ever change his mind.
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That's precisely why dwelling on people who are wrong about stuff is fruitless. Even if you argue with them, even if you prove conclusively they are wrong, even if you get a lot of people on an internet forum to agree with you that they are wrong, they will insist on and persist in being wrong.

If they're that wrong just move on to something more profitable.
 
S

Seeking-Christ

Guest
#12
#12
Mitch2019 said:
it is written. .... God is the same yesterday. today and forever ..

All scripture is for learning . remember when that line was written in Renewed testament there was only the original Testament. The Renewed Testament didn't exist.
Click to expand...
God is the same yesterday and forever. But the Bible does have progression in it. God did not work in everyone's life in the exact same way.
 
Mitch2019

Mitch2019

Member
#13
Jul 3, 2019
92
22
8
Here
#13
Seeking-Christ said:
God is the same yesterday and forever. But the Bible does have progression in it. God did not work in everyone's life in the exact same way.[/QUOTE) i jsut read the bible . if it says somethign that doesnt add up. its my understnading that is wrong
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L

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
#14
May 19, 2022
1,383
640
113
#14
I could easily pick apart several other things that the man said in the video which were in error.

For example, in relation to Zacharias and Elisabeth, he quoted the following:

Luke chapter 1

[5] There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
[6] And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Here, he basically claimed "sinless perfection" for both of them.

Well, let's continue on reading just a tiny bit, shall we?

Luke chapter 1

[11] And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
[12] And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
[16] And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
[17] And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
[18] And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
[19] And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
[20] And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

For crying out loud, ZACHARIAS WAS STRUCK DUMB BY THE ANGEL GABRIEL BECAUSE OF HIS UNBELIEF.

How then is this allegedly "sinless perfection" on Zacharias' part?

Again, there was definitely some error in the video, BUT there was also some truth.

I once heard a preacher say that "mixture" is the most dangerous thing in ministry, and I agree with him.

In other words, someone will listen to someone else whose teachings contain both truth and error, and they will embrace the truth AND the error with it.

Conversely, someone will listen to someone else whose teachings contain both truth and error, and they will reject the error AND the truth with it.

What a mess...
 
S

Seeking-Christ

Guest
#15
#15
God did not work in Samson's life the way He worked in Davids life. He did not work in Elijah's life the way He worked in job's life. He didn't work in Job's life the way He worked in Peter's life. I could go on and on...
 
C

ChristianTonyB

Guest
#16
#16
Seeking-Christ said:
One lonely night, I started searching around the internet for answers to my problems. Looking at scriptures and article etc, when I found this interesting youtube channel. He's one of those guys who believes that in order to be saved you must be sinless. His view is that once you got the holy spirit you are capable or resisting all sin. It's hard for me to argue against the scriptures He presents. He's a guy a who knows his bible. Perhaps good enough to be dangerous.

Here is the channel if you like to browse the videos.
https://www.youtube.com/c/CollinMichael/videos

I feel that I should pick a short video so that you can get the vibe of this individual.

This is called " Why most Christians are going to hell. "


You probably should take a look around his channel, and watch the video before talking to me about this.

I would love to hear your ideas as to why you think this guy is wrong. Or why you think this guy is right.
Click to expand...
Depends on whether a person is a true Christ follower, or not. If the person is a Christ follower, then they are a Christian in spirit and in truth. If not, then even though they may call themselves a Christian, they are in truth a heathen, and from what I've read there's no place set aside in Heaven for suchlike!
 
A

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#17
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
780
113
#17
ChristianTonyB said:
Depends on whether a person is a true Christ follower, or not. If the person is a Christ follower, then they are a Christian in spirit and in truth. If not, then even though they may call themselves a Christian, they are in truth a heathen, and from what I've read there's no place set aside in Heaven for suchlike!
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That raises the obvious question. How do you distinguish a 'True Christ Follower' from a 'False Heathen Christian'?
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#18
Aug 13, 2014
27,276
9,327
113
#18
arthurfleminger said:
That raises the obvious question. How do you distinguish a 'True Christ Follower' from a 'False Heathen Christian'?
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We don't. Remember the parable of the wheat and the tares? We just keep living our lives the best we can and trust God to sort it out after the harvest is over.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#19
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#19
I’ve seen this video and many others like to. Believer’s, those that have been sealed are not destined for hell due to their own accord. There’s a lot of this that circulates via YouTube.
 
C

ChristianTonyB

Guest
#20
#20
arthurfleminger said:
That raises the obvious question. How do you distinguish a 'True Christ Follower' from a 'False Heathen Christian'?
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It does, doesn't it.

We know that we must be born again....so what does it mean to be/how do we know if we have been, born again'?

We also know that we must learn to deny ourselves daily, and take up our cross and follow after Jesus.....so what is really meant by 'to deny ourselves daily, and take up our cross'?
 
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