You can choose as much as you like but you have not the power to act upon your choice. Your choice, your will is in bondage and must first be set free.
... and if God doesn't extend to you the choice?
Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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... and if God doesn't extend to you the choice?
Where do you get your material from? The FACT that you choose an option is the power of acting on your choice.
Your statement is confused.
Kinda like saying, "you can choose which sox to wear, but you have no power to put them on".
Really? How does that make sense.
The whole point of making a choice is to ACT on that choice. Make that choice.
It is in bondage to sin. Yes. But God created mankind with the conscience and freedom to choose freedom and ACT on that choice.
It's called believing the gospel. Anyone can do it.
Wrong question. God already HAS EXTENDED the choice to be saved to mankind.
Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
It would make NO SENSE at all for God to offer salvation to those who He chose already not to save.
The FACT that God offers salvation to everyone is that everyone is able to choose God's promise of salvation.
Image..does not mean God made us an exact duplicate of himself. If it did Adam and Eve would have known good and evil Before they ate from the tree. Correct?
“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
Genesis 3:5-6
It is correct that to be made "in the image of God" doesn't refer to looks, but rather to essence. Just as God is "Three in One", a refrence to the Trinity, man is made 3 parts: body, soul, and human spirit. When Adam sinned, he immediately (in that day) died spiritually, meaning his human spirit died, but his body lived on for over 900 years, and then died. So all humans are born physically alive but spiritually dead. That is why everyone needs to be born again, or made alive (Eph 2) again.
Paul taught that the woman was deceived by Satan, so she didn't understand what she was doing. But Adam wasn't deceived. He knew exactly what he was doing; choosing Eve over the Garden.
1 Tim 2:13-14
For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
Possibly. So you’re saying God ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and then turned around and forbid others do it too?
Very good points brother. Some I had never thought of,.thanks for sharing them with me.
Uh...No.
I was just Clarifying, what FreeGrace thought about what it meant to be created in Gods image. And he gave, what I thought, an excellent answer.
you do not have the power to born again yourself ... you can choose it.
Jesus made it clear to those who came against Him that God had closed their eyes and stopped their ears and hardened their hearts lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand in their hearts and turn to Him and be forgiven.
You don't like scriptures like that.
He made it clear that the reason for this that they were children of the devil and his will [not their freewill] was what they would do.
No man can come to Jesus unless God first draw Him. If Jesus be lifted up He will draw all men unto Him, but not all to be saved. The gospel itself is designed to repel some, the cross is abhorrent to some folks.
But BILLIONS have lived and died and never heard the gospel so they never were given the choice which Arminians insist people must make, they cannot choose, decide for Christ. Arminians offer no hope to these billions of human souls, they must spend eternity in hell...
Well I don't think so.
If the image of God is His moral, spiritual, and intellectual nature, and people were created in His image, but once they gained the knowledge of good and evil, which God already possessed, then wouldn’t that make Adam and Eve more closely aligned with the image of God?
There’s no contradiction here. It just means we need to look a bit closer at what God’s image actually is. God didn’t reverse His position on people being created in His image when they act according to the nature He created them to. So having considered that, Gods image is something else.
FreeGrace2 said:
It is correct that to be made "in the image of God" doesn't refer to looks, but rather to essence. Just as God is "Three in One", a refrence to the Trinity, man is made 3 parts: body, soul, and human spirit. When Adam sinned, he immediately (in that day) died spiritually, meaning his human spirit died, but his body lived on for over 900 years, and then died. So all humans are born physically alive but spiritually dead. That is why everyone needs to be born again, or made alive (Eph 2) again.
Paul taught that the woman was deceived by Satan, so she didn't understand what she was doing. But Adam wasn't deceived. He knew exactly what he was doing; choosing Eve over the Garden.
1 Tim 2:13-14
For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
It is correct that to be made "in the image of God" doesn't refer to looks, but rather to essence. Just as God is "Three in One", a refrence to the Trinity, man is made 3 parts: body, soul, and human spirit. When Adam sinned, he immediately (in that day) died spiritually, meaning his human spirit died, but his body lived on for over 900 years, and then died. So all humans are born physically alive but spiritually dead. That is why everyone needs to be born again, or made alive (Eph 2) again.
Paul taught that the woman was deceived by Satan, so she didn't understand what she was doing. But Adam wasn't deceived. He knew exactly what he was doing; choosing Eve over the Garden.
1 Tim 2:13-14
For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
My pleasure! Thanks.
No, you can't "choose it", any more than you could choose your own parents. Which is the point of John 1:13.
Free will is nothing more than freedom to choose from available options. The key is "available". The option to choose your parents isn't available, so it has nothing to do with free will.
NO, it does NOT say that God did all this.
Listen closely to how Paul translated Isa 6:9,10 in Acts 28:
26 “ ‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’
The red words prove that it is a choice to NOT see and NOT hear and NOT perceive.
In fact, if they had done these things, they they WOULD see, hear and understand, and then TURN, and God would heeal them.
So don't presume that God keeps anyone from seeing, hearing, or understanding.
I love all verses.
What I don't like is the false doctrines that come from misunderstanding verses and trying to spread that false doctrine around.
Nonsense. Titus 2:11 is real clear. Salvation is offered to everyone. Your view is in direct conflict with what Paul wrote.
By Jesus going to the cross, was how everyone is drawn to Him. That's what "all men" means, btw.
However, many keep their ears and eyes closed to the truth. They aren't interested and don't pay attention.
This is just an abhorrent calvinist talking point.
The gospel is designed to SAVE PEOPLE. Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Really? That's not what the Bible says.
Rom 1:19,20
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
This is where it all starts from: God conscienceness. Because God HAS "made it plain" and "have been clearly seen", "everyone is WITHOUT EXCUSE". That's what the Bible says.
So, by your definition of salvation, only those who believe or believed in Jesus could be saved? No exceptions?
By scripture alone we know that
By God's grace alone
Through faith alone
In Jesus alone
For the glory of God alone....
We are saved.
Faith is the key.
Faith in that his death was a worthy payment for all sin, and that he rose again because death could not hold him because he did not sin. Faith that he is THE perfect image of God.
Baptism, which is a symbol/ceremony of rebirth, and repentance go hand in hand.
It's a symbolic rebirth in Christ, saying " the old me died on the cross with Christ and is buried and I am born again in his resurrection."
As for a rightious life, only Jesus did that. We are only counted as rightious by our....faith, like Abraham.
Faith is all encompassing yes.
But one Turning from sin would be evidence of their faith. We cannot as humans turn fully from sin..... We will still slip up, but God forgives.
By God's grace alone
Through faith alone
In Jesus alone
For the glory of God alone....
We are saved.
Faith is the key.
Faith in that his death was a worthy payment for all sin, and that he rose again because death could not hold him because he did not sin. Faith that he is THE perfect image of God.
Baptism, which is a symbol/ceremony of rebirth, and repentance go hand in hand.
It's a symbolic rebirth in Christ, saying " the old me died on the cross with Christ and is buried and I am born again in his resurrection."
As for a rightious life, only Jesus did that. We are only counted as rightious by our....faith, like Abraham.
Faith is all encompassing yes.
But one Turning from sin would be evidence of their faith. We cannot as humans turn fully from sin..... We will still slip up, but God forgives.
They only received the knowledge of Good and Evil by eating from the tree, but...it did not make them Holy, ...as God is Holy.
And that's the element of Gods nature, which was sorely missing when God created Adam and Eve. Which is why God...through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, is making us Holy.
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
(Hebrews 10:11-14)
How can there be exceptions when Christ Himself is our Salvation? Yeshua (or Yahshua) which is translated as "Jesus" means GOD [IS] OUR SALVATION.
So...John is wrong?
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
(1 John 3:9-10)
It would be a great mistake to treat of a viper the same way you would treat of a dove, or to try to handle a goat as you would handle a sheep. But this is what Arminians do. That's how the church gets full of folks who never were saved and because they come into the church through "freewill" methodology [step forward to be saved, decide for Christ etc] they come into the church with worldly ambitions unabated so inevitable gravitate to the top places of leadership in the church.
That's how arminianism throws a great spanner into the progress of the church.
's no such thing as human freewill.
Why can't the Christian stop sinning...If we have free will?
Can those of you who believe they have free will, explain why you continue to sin after you become a Christian, if you have free will?
FreeGrace2 said:
No, you can't "choose it", any more than you could choose your own parents. Which is the point of John 1:13.
Free will is nothing more than freedom to choose from available options. The key is "available". The option to choose your parents isn't available, so it has nothing to do with free will.
Please deal with my definition of free will, not theirs.
The ONLY WAY for a person is to get saved is what Paul told the jailer in Acts 16:31.
And you haven't provided any verses that say or show that man is unable to believe. Many verses show us that people REFUSE to believe or repent.
Are you aware that the act of refusing is a choice. Bingo!! This proves that such people COULD believe or repent, but they chose NOT TO.
No, you can't "choose it", any more than you could choose your own parents. Which is the point of John 1:13.
Free will is nothing more than freedom to choose from available options. The key is "available". The option to choose your parents isn't available, so it has nothing to do with free will.
This response seems totally unrelated to my comment above. Could you explain a bit more clearly, please?
I don't care what they do. Their doctrine of losing salvation is horrible. I have no use for their ideas.
Please deal with my definition of free will, not theirs.
And I agree with you about this horrible practice. No one gets saved by walking an aisle, raising their hand, or repeating a prayer.
The ONLY WAY for a person is to get saved is what Paul told the jailer in Acts 16:31.
I don't know what a "great spanner" is, but I sure don't have any respect for their doctrine.
OK, make your claim. You haven't proven it yet. And you haven't even addressed my definition, to at least try to show me it can't be true.
And you haven't provided any verses that say or show that man is unable to believe. Many verses show us that people REFUSE to believe or repent.
Are you aware that the act of refusing is a choice. Bingo!! This proves that such people COULD believe or repent, but they chose NOT TO.
Evmur said:
There's no such thing as human freewill.
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
Then he clarifies:
6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— notice the subjunctive mood; it is what believers should do. Not what they WILL do. Big difference.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. notice the command. What we SHOULD DO.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Another command to DO.
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 2 choices right here.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Paul makes clear that we DO sin.
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
I've highlighted all the choices believers are able to make. v.16 is the summary. Paul lays out the point: when you OFFER yourselves ( a choice) to someone as slaves. Then the choice: slaves to sin, or slaves to obedience.
All this proves that man has free will. The freedom to choose between available options, which Paul laid out clearly.
There's no such thing as human freewill.
Easy. Believers choose to. That's why. Paul said as much in Romans 6. He opens with this:
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
Then he clarifies:
6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— notice the subjunctive mood; it is what believers should do. Not what they WILL do. Big difference.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. notice the command. What we SHOULD DO.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Another command to DO.
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 2 choices right here.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Paul makes clear that we DO sin.
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
I've highlighted all the choices believers are able to make. v.16 is the summary. Paul lays out the point: when you OFFER yourselves ( a choice) to someone as slaves. Then the choice: slaves to sin, or slaves to obedience.
All this proves that man has free will. The freedom to choose between available options, which Paul laid out clearly.