Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[FreeGrace2]

You're confused because you slice and dice other people's replies.

Nope. I address them and refute the ones that aren't biblical.

What is false belief? Simple - "Lord, lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"

Boy, are you confused. This isn't even belief of any kind. It's WORKS. It's DOING THINGS.

"I never knew you, depart from me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!". You don't understand that because you're in a state of denial.

lol. The FACT that Jesus said to them, "I NEVER knew you" proves that they NEVER believed in Him or His work on the cross for them.

Instead, they thought their works would earn His favor.

So, what "false belief" really means is trusting in YOURSELF to save yourself. That's all.

When a person ADDS any kind of works or effort to salvation, they have a false belief.

It is belief alone in Christ alone that results in salvation.

 

[Magenta]

You're not even close to saying the same thing.

You may think you are, but you are miles away.

If you agree with Magentas statement then you just agreed with the Calvinist position.

There is no WAY you could agree to that. Not knowingly.

I really really really wish @FreeGrace2 would stop constructing his posts the way he does. See how what you quoted,
my post, makes it look like I said things I did not? Yeah. I don't know why he thinks he has to do what he does

PS~ how is saying Jesus' shed righteous blood is sufficient for all but
efficacious only for those who believe, a Calvinist position?

Is that not something you believe?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Nope. I address them and refute the ones that aren't biblical.


Boy, are you confused. This isn't even belief of any kind. It's WORKS. It's DOING THINGS.


lol. The FACT that Jesus said to them, "I NEVER knew you" proves that they NEVER believed in Him or His work on the cross for them.

Instead, they thought their works would earn His favor.

So, what "false belief" really means is trusting in YOURSELF to save yourself. That's all.

When a person ADDS any kind of works or effort to salvation, they have a false belief.

It is belief alone in Christ alone that results in salvation.

Those who believe will do His work, otherwise you're practicing lawlessness. "Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." (James 1:22)

 

[FreeGrace2]

I really really really wish @FreeGrace2 would stop constructing his posts the way he does.

Sorry for any confusion. I open a post and address either statements, sentences or paragraphs as I read through the post.

See how what you quoted,
my post, makes it look like I said things I did not? Yeah. I don't know why he thinks he has to do what he does

I have no idea how my responses make it look like someone else's. Sometimes my fingers trip over my fast typing and I goof up the quote box, which does change how things look.

My bad.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Those who believe will do His work, otherwise you're practicing lawlessness. "Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." (James 1:22)

You missed the point. The crowd in Matt 7:21-23 didn't believe on Him for salvation. They were too busy trying to work for it.

That is the REASON He could tell them "I never knew you".

If they HAD EVER believed in Him alone, He could NOT say "I never knew you".

That is the point. Again.

 

[Magenta]

Sorry for any confusion. I open a post and address either statements, sentences or paragraphs as I read through the post.


I have no idea how my responses make it look like someone else's. Sometimes my fingers trip over my fast typing and I goof up the quote box, which does change how things look.

My bad.

It is because instead of using the quote system as it is meant to be used, you copy parts of the other person's post into your own. The system is not broken. You don't have to fix it. It is not an oopsie you have made. You do it over and over and over again. You often start with what you have said that preceded what you are quoting. That is completely unnecessary! If you want to break a person's post down into individual points to respond to separately, use the added quote function. I will show you

yaaadda yadda yay

^ ^ ^ I just typed "yaaadda yadda yay" and then chose from the icons above the messaged box the one with three dots and the downward facing arrow to insert the quote tags around it after highlighting that text. (Quote is the second option from the dropdown.) Copying a long post? Even a short one you want to break up? Separate individual points interspersed with your replies that way. Then when someone quotes you, they only quote what you said and not what other people said. That is how the system is designed to work.

I just type the tags in myself. They look like this [ quote] and [/ quote]. I added a space so you can see them

To separate your responses from the individual parts you are responding to, just always make sure a [/ quote] ends the other persons post, which of course starts with [ quote]. You can break a post into as many parts as you like this way and cause no confusion.

 

[Magenta]

You missed the point. The crowd in Matt 7:21-23 didn't believe on Him for salvation. They were too busy trying to work for it.

Copying the opening quote tags to place

That is the REASON He could tell them "I never knew you".

before every individual point

If they HAD EVER believed in Him alone, He could NOT say "I never knew you".

and also the closing quote at the end of each point

That is the point. Again.

keeps everything neat and tidy

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You missed the point. The crowd in Matt 7:21-23 didn't believe on Him for salvation. They were too busy trying to work for it.

That is the REASON He could tell them "I never knew you".

If they HAD EVER believed in Him alone, He could NOT say "I never knew you".

That is the point. Again.

Nope, that crowd definitely believed that they did all of that in Jesus's name, they argued again in the sheep and goats judgement (Matt. 25:44). Problem is, they were deceived into believing in a false version of Jesus. The disciples believed in a Zionist Messiah that would lead them to restore Israel, they didn't understand Isaiah 53, therefore they all ran away after the arrest and crucifixion. That was a FALSE belief.

 

[Magenta]

Nope, that crowd definitely believed that they did all of that in Jesus's name, they argued again in the sheep and goats judgement (Matt. 25:44). Problem is, they were deceived into believing in a false version of Jesus. The disciples believed in a Zionist Messiah that would lead them to restore Israel, they didn't understand Isaiah 53, therefore they all ran away after the arrest and crucifixion. That was a FALSE belief.

Reminds me of the tower of Babel. Yeah. They wanted make a name for themselves. See all these wonderful works
and wonders we do in Your Name? Only problem is, the "we do these things in Your Name" is a sham for them.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is because instead of using the quote system as it is meant to be used, you copy parts of the other person's post into your own.

Yes, and I always bracket the other person's quote with the

before and the

after. Like here.

The system is not broken. You don't have to fix it. It is not an oopsie you have made. You do it over and over and over again.

Does this website have instructions on how to use the quote system "as it is meant to be used"?

You often start with what you have said that preceded what you are quoting.

For context. Too many posters don't include that part for context. So what they say is without context, making it difficult to respond.

That is completely unnecessary! If you want to break a person's post down into individual points to respond to separately, use the added quote function. I will show you

^ ^ ^ I just typed "yaaadda yadda yay" and then chose from the icons above the messaged box the one with three dots and the downward facing arrow to insert the quote tags around it after highlighting that text.

When I click on "reply" to another's post, I get their post with the quote boxes visible. I don't see what you are describing.

(Quote is the second option from the dropdown.) Copying a long post? Even a short one you want to break up? Separate individual points interspersed with your replies that way. Then when someone quotes you, they only quote what you said and not what other people said. That is how the system is designed to work.

When I reply to a post, I always put a quote box in front of what I'm addressing and a /quote box after their quote.

No one has ever complained about my formatting before.

I just type the tags in myself. They look like this [ quote] and [/ quote]. I added a space so you can see them

That's what I've been doing for several decades.

Sometimes a poster will mess up formatting and what I've said shows as if they said it. And I have let them know what happened. And no one has ever come back with, "you do it too".

To separate your responses from the individual parts you are responding to, just always make sure a [/ quote] ends the other persons post, which of course starts with [ quote].

I always do that. As I noted earlier, I probably typed too fast and didn't type the quote box correctly. I do try to keep that accurate.

You can break a post into as many parts as you like this way and cause no confusion.

Again, that's been my formatting since I started posting 2 decades ago.

I do apologize for my error.

 

[Magenta]

For context. Too many posters don't include that part for context.

It's unnecessary. If they want to know, the quoted post is a link
that takes them back and back and back as far as they want to go.

Does this website have instructions on how to use the quote system "as it is meant to be used"?

"REPLY" is all that is necessary. That is how it is meant to be used.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nope, that crowd definitely believed that they did all of that in Jesus's name

But this isn't salvific. What they based their getting into the kingdom on is WHAT THEY DID. NOT WHAT THEY BELIEVED.

they argued again in the sheep and goats judgement (Matt. 25:44).

Wrong text. Stick with Matt 7:21-23. Matt 24:44 isn't in the context here.

Problem is, they were deceived into believing in a false version of Jesus.

They WEREN'T BELIEVING. They were WORKING. Why is that so hard to understand?

The disciples believed in a Zionist Messiah that would lead them to restore Israel, they didn't understand Isaiah 53, therefore they all ran away after the arrest and crucifixion. That was a FALSE belief.

I suggest you read ALL of John then. You are wrong in your conclusion. Let's go back to John 13.

10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”

Do you understand what Jesus was telling Peter? Pete didn't want Jesus to wash his feet. Pete thought that was demeaning, even though Jesus was demonstrating serving others. So Pete got sideways with Jesus and told Him to basically give him another bath.

Jesus' answer to Pete in v.10 makes clear that all the disciples were already SAVED, except one, which was Judas.

The point of washing feet to "have a part" with Him relates to confession of sin in 1 John 1:9 and fellowship with the Lord.

Our sin offends God, and He won't hear our prayers when we are out of fellowship with Him. So, just as washing the feet of those in Jesus' day, who walked the same paths as domesticated animals resulted in very offensive animal feces on their feet, which needed cleansing, so our sins are even worse to God and we need cleansing.

So Jesus made clear that by ch 13 all the disciples except Judas were saved. And read John 17 where Jesus prays for His 11 disciples. Clearly He showed by His prayer that they were saved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's unnecessary. If they want to know, the quoted post is a link
that takes them back and back and back as far as they want to go.

By surrounding the poster's remarks with the quote box and /quote box, there is no link back.

"REPLY" is all that is necessary. That is how it is meant to be used.

That's what I've been doing. I click "reply" and then address the post using the quote and /quote boxes.

Editing note: I just learned that if a quote box is bolded it messes up the post. It took me several attempts to fix my response because when I put a quote box in from of your "reply" word that was bolded and the quote box got bolded. Which messed up the response.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

But this isn't salvific. What they based their getting into the kingdom on is WHAT THEY DID. NOT WHAT THEY BELIEVED.


Wrong text. Stick with Matt 7:21-23. Matt 24:44 isn't in the context here.


They WEREN'T BELIEVING. They were WORKING. Why is that so hard to understand?


I suggest you read ALL of John then. You are wrong in your conclusion. Let's go back to John 13.

10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”

Do you understand what Jesus was telling Peter? Pete didn't want Jesus to wash his feet. Pete thought that was demeaning, even though Jesus was demonstrating serving others. So Pete got sideways with Jesus and told Him to basically give him another bath.

Jesus' answer to Pete in v.10 makes clear that all the disciples were already SAVED, except one, which was Judas.

The point of washing feet to "have a part" with Him relates to confession of sin in 1 John 1:9 and fellowship with the Lord.

Our sin offends God, and He won't hear our prayers when we are out of fellowship with Him. So, just as washing the feet of those in Jesus' day, who walked the same paths as domesticated animals resulted in very offensive animal feces on their feet, which needed cleansing, so our sins are even worse to God and we need cleansing.

So Jesus made clear that by ch 13 all the disciples except Judas were saved. And read John 17 where Jesus prays for His 11 disciples. Clearly He showed by His prayer that they were saved.

Why is it so hard for you to understand false belief in wrong doctrine? “Clean” in that verse doesn’t necessarily mean saved, for nothing but the shed blood of Jesus on the cross could wash away the sin. And it’s not the body that’s washed “clean”, but the garment:

“Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?” (Matt 22:12)

“I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed;” (Rev 3:18)

“Then a white robe was given to each of them;” (Rev 6:11)

”These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb;” (Rev 7:14)

This garment is a garment of righteousness, which Adam and Eve lost in the garden and became aware of their nakedness. All of their own effort was like those sewed up fig leaves, it took the life of the Lamb of God to cover them forever in righteousness. And clearly that hadn’t happened YET when a Jesus washed the disciples’ feet!

 

[Grandpa]

I
PS~ how is saying Jesus' shed righteous blood is sufficient for all but
efficacious only for those who believe, a Calvinist position?

Is that not something you believe?

That's limited atonement. Christs Blood is sufficient for all but efficacious only to those who believe. Which is Calvinist doctrine.

I absolutely do believe that. The scripture and our real life experience bear it out.

 

[Grandpa]

Let's get to the point here.

Show me where the Bible differentiates between sufficient and efficacious if you can. That should suffice.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Christ is sufficient for the Whole World to be Saved. But Christs Salvation is only efficacious to those who believe.

Same with all the blessings of Christ. Righteousness, Atonement, Wisdom, Sanctifiction, Redemption. All sufficient for the whole world. But only efficacious to those who believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why is it so hard for you to understand false belief in wrong doctrine?

It's not hard at all. Why do you question me?

“Clean” in that verse doesn’t necessarily mean saved

Well, that is your opinion. Jesus was making it very clear that Judas wasn't saved. He hadn't had that "bath" that Peter wanted again.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Let's get to the point here.

Show me where the Bible differentiates between sufficient and efficacious if you can. That should suffice.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Christ is sufficient for the Whole World to be Saved.

And all these verses show that everyone can be saved. That PROVES that He died for everyone. As many verses plainly SAY.

But Christs Salvation is only efficacious to those who believe.

The point is that salvation is by faith in Christ.

Why do you fight the FACT that Jesus Christ died for everyone?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I do. Why? Because who ever heard of being reverted from Spiritually Circumcised to unCircumcised? Or, do we not understand this core doctrine of the Bible?

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Question to OSAS believers: was Simon Magus OSAS when he believed and was baptized:

Acts 8:9-25

"
Simon the Sorcerer
9 Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10 and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” 11 They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. 12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”

25 After they had further proclaimed the word of the Lord and testified about Jesus, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages."