Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Chester]

I clarified your very vague question. It all depends upon whether that person EVER believed in Jesus.
.

So you do believe that a person can die not believing in Jesus Christ and can still get to heaven. I don't believe that.

 

[peldom10]

Yes totally agree with that. This subject alone is worthy of its own thread but I don’t feel like opening one about it. I hope someone will though! Apparently people here are thinking Christ’s sacrifice applies to everyone.

In a sense, it can be said that Christ died for everyone insofar that His death is suitable to atone for the sins of every sinner, but in another sense the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice can only be accessed through faith.

The Bible is clear that more people will not be saved from the second death in the lake of fire than there are those who will be saved.

So you’re scripture about the blood of Christ being shed for “many” is most accurate and the best way to understand the scope of His sacrifice.

Addressing this point before I believe it is reasonable to apply it this way;

Christ died on the cross ......for all......... followers of God's commandments.

 

[Magenta]

This is a fallacy. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins. 2 Cor 5:19 says that God was reconciling the WORLD in Him.
But that doesn't save anyone. It does remove the sin barrier, which means anyone and everyone can be saved.

1 Tim 2:3-6 plainly says that God wants everyone to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. That ain't calvinism.

And I ain't no Arminian either. Just to be clear.

And you're promoting universalism that "everyone" eventually goes to heaven? That's Satan's false religion. "Many" means "many", in Jeremiah 31:31 the new covenant was made with the Israelites. Everyone CAN come to Jesus, but not everyone WILL. The fallacy is yours.

FreeGrace2 actually said "that doesn't save anyone."

So how can you say he is promoting universalism?

 

[Magenta]

Dealing with this point before I believe it is reasonable to address it this way;

Christ died on the cross ......for all......... followers of God's commandments.

Mark 1:15
And saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe
in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient
toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Acts 3:19
Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,

Matthew 3:2
“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 17:30
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

 

[Magenta]

Colossians 2:13-14

 

[Evmur]

Addressing this point before I believe it is reasonable to apply it this way;

Christ died on the cross ......for all......... followers of God's commandments.

Jesus came to save those who were in breach of His commandment ... sinners not the righteous.

 

[BillG]

Hi @BillG what I am trying to say is that the benefits of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus are accessed through faith. Those without faith can’t access the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice so it can’t be said that Jesus died for those who don’t believe.

Ipso facto, Christ didn’t die for everyone. The Bible teaches that God gave His son so IF anyone believes in Him they will not perish, but rather have eternal life. The Bible does not say “Christ died for everyone” or otherwise faith wouldn’t be required. That’s my perspective, I guess you’re free to disagree still if you prefer.

What effect does Christ’s sacrifice have on those who never believe in it?

Hi @Runningman

I think we agree.

I believe that Jesus when he died on the cross and said it is finished died for sins for the sins of all. Forgiveness of sins.

The appropriation of forgiveness and reconciliation to the Father is only given per Romans 5

Romans 5:1-2

Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

And.

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

I am not a universalist or a calvanist but I do believe that as Jesus said he will not lose any that the Father has given him.

 

[Magenta]

Faith Triumphs in Trouble Romans 5:1-2
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through
whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Amen!

 

[Magenta]

 

[Beckie]

This is a Christian Chat site and the Roman Catholic Church is a Christian Church. If you disagree, that is just your own opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I believe we should all agree to disagree and be respectful of one another. I believe God should be the only judge of what is biblical or not biblical and only God knows the hearts and minds of others.

The fruit or lack of is easy to see

 

[Magenta]

This is a Christian Chat site and the Roman Catholic Church is a Christian Church. If you disagree, that is just your own opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I believe we should all agree to disagree and be respectful of one another. I believe God should be the only judge of what is biblical or not biblical and only God knows the hearts and minds of others.

God's Word tells us to judge those in the church.

But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother
but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or
a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge
those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 1 Corinthians 5:11-12

Many consider the RCC to be riddled with idolatry. Call it an opinion if you like.

1 Corinthians 11:19

 

[Magenta]

Jesus came to save those who were in breach of His commandment ... sinners not the righteous.

That would be everybody

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, no no. Christ dying for everyone does NOT save anyone. What you calvinists seem unable to grasp is that His death removed the sin barrier so that humans CAN be saved.

And how in the world do you explain 1 Tim 2:3-6?
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.


Says you. The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus Christ died for everyone, so that everyone can be saved.

1 Cor 1:21 tells us what pleases God. A verse that Calvinists have problems with.

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

What it doesn't say is "God is pleased to save those He elected".

I’ve repeatedly pointed out that only those who believe will be saved, aka, the “many”, even though the gospel must be preached to the whole world, and that’s what the COVENANT is all about. For those who don’t believe, they are condemned already, for they love darkness rather than the light. It’s not about whom he came to save, the final result is whom God made that new covenant with - through his shed blood.

 

[Runningman]

This is a fallacy. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins.

This sounds like you’re saying that the death of Christ applies to everyone’s sins. If Christ’s death applies to someone’s sin then they are forgiven regardless of their response which is false.

You keep using terminology like this you’re going to confuse a lot of people and lead them astray. People like me are always coming back behind you to clean up your mess and hopefully unmuddy the waters for readers.

Christ died to make a sacrifice available for all sinners, but this sin sacrifice is only available through faith. You would do well to learn that quickly!

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I clarified your very vague question. It all depends upon whether that person EVER believed in Jesus.

So you do believe that a person can die not believing in Jesus Christ and can still get to heaven. I don't believe that.

Then you cannot possibly believe what Jesus said.

I believe that anyone who as EVER believed shall never perish.

Why? Because Jesus gives the gift of eternal life to a believer when they believe and then proclaims, recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

I believe what Jesus promises. I am amazed that a professing Christian out and out says they don't believe that.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

FreeGrace2 actually said "that doesn't save anyone."

So how can you say he is promoting universalism?

Look, in Jer. 31:31, it says that God will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, does that mean Israelites only? Which dwindles down to the 144k? ‘Cause there’re some people who really believe that only the 144k will be saved.

The way I see it, God scattered the Jews across the entire world, and he used the gentiles to bring the Jews back to him. Israel will be the last among all nations that receive the gospel and embrace Jesus as the Christ, hence “the first will be the last, the last will be the first.” It’s a full circle, and it’s coming to pass. While the younger generation in Europe and North America is abandoning Jesus, faith in Jesus is booming among the younger generation of Jewish people, even among Muslims. That’s a unique end time phenomenon.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I’ve repeatedly pointed out that only those who believe will be saved, aka, the “many”, even though the gospel must be preached to the whole world, and that’s what the COVENANT is all about. For those who don’t believe, they are condemned already, for they love darkness rather than the light. It’s not about whom he came to save, the final result is whom God made that new covenant with - through his shed blood.

Your last statement above clinches your position. Christ only died for those "whom God made that new covenant with".

In spite of all the verses that specifically say that Christ for all, not "all kinds of".

Then it would be that you don't believe 1 Tim 2:3-6. Do you or don't you?

 

[Magenta]

Look, in Jer. 31:31, it says that God will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, does that mean
Israelites only? Which dwindles down to the 144k? ‘Cause there’re some people who really believe that only the 144k will be saved.

Deuteronomy 30:6

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
This is a fallacy. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins.

This sounds like you’re saying that the death of Christ applies to everyone’s sins.

Well, let's see what the Bible says, if that's alright with you.

2 Cor 5:14,15
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

That is what I believe. It seems you don't. Even though I quoted the Bible directly.

If Christ’s death applies to someone’s sin then they are forgiven regardless of their response which is false.

Then you don't know the Bible. Acts 10:43 tells us specifically how to be forgiven: believing in Christ.
" All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

So your claim is false. They aren't forgiven. They are reconciled, which means the sin barrier that separates man from God is REMOVED.

See 2 Cor 5:19 above.

You keep using terminology like this you’re going to confuse a lot of people and lead them astray.

I don't believe that using biblical terminology will have that effect. Too many believers use un or non-biblical words which don't even line up with truth.

People like me are always coming back behind you to clean up your mess and hopefully unmuddy the waters for readers.

lol.

Christ died to make a sacrifice available for all sinners, but this sin sacrifice is only available through faith. You would do well to learn that quickly!

OK, you post from the hip without even reading before you post. That has been my very clear point throughout.

What's wrong with you? I've quoted Acts 10:43, 2 Cor 5:19 many times. Yet you still aren't even close to understanding my position.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
This is a fallacy. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins.

Well, let's see what the Bible says, if that's alright with you.

2 Cor 5:14,15
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

That is what I believe. It seems you don't. Even though I quoted the Bible directly.


Then you don't know the Bible. Acts 10:43 tells us specifically how to be forgiven: believing in Christ.
" All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

So your claim is false. They aren't forgiven. They are reconciled, which means the sin barrier that separates man from God is REMOVED.

See 2 Cor 5:19 above.


I don't believe that using biblical terminology will have that effect. Too many believers use un or non-biblical words which don't even line up with truth.


lol.


OK, you post from the hip without even reading before you post. That has been my very clear point throughout.

What's wrong with you? I've quoted Acts 10:43, 2 Cor 5:19 many times. Yet you still aren't even close to understanding my position.

You said "This is a fallacy. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins." Christ did die for all as the Bible says, but you said He died for "everyone's sins" which to me has a completely different connotation to it and is false.

The atoning sin sacrifice of Jesus does not apply to everyone. That's all I am saying and I hope you can at least agree with that.