Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Magenta]

From 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

 

[Snacks]

Unfortunately, those 'Christians' who claim to have faith in Jesus but whose faith has lapsed and they are living in darkness and sin, they are in danger of losing their immortal soul. Many Christians have left Jesus for the things of this world, and we all know who the 'Lord of this World' is.

Pray it doesn’t happen to you.

 

[Snacks]

He warned that false prophets will rise in the last days IN HIS NAME and deceived many - even the elect! You must've heard about these unbiblical versions of Jesus from the pulpit - hipster Jesus, New Age Jesus, socialist Jesus, etc. His own disciples were expecting a Zionist Jesus back in the days of His ministry.

You’re correct. I’m simply saying the previous words as written seem diametrically impossible.

 

[Phoneman-777]

And out come the personal insults right on time. That always happens when support for one's position is at an end. It's quite predictable.

Every time, friend. You tell people the truth that the outward presumptuous disobedience to the Ten Commandments proves the absence of Jesus in the inward heart, and they'll stubbornly refuse to repent and instead curse you for disturbing their comfortable false security with uncomfortable truth.

 

[Snacks]

Every time, friend. You tell people the truth that the outward presumptuous disobedience to the Ten Commandments proves the absence of Jesus in the inward heart, and they'll stubbornly refuse to repent and instead curse you for disturbing their comfortable false security with uncomfortable truth.

Says one with a condescending tude

 

[Phoneman-777]

Says one with a condescending tude

It's not with a condescending attitude I denounce OSAS as a doctrine of devils - it's with strong desire to help people escape satanic lies intended to lead to eternal death those who think they've got eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
But since Jesus Christ died for ALL sins, including the ones that seem to offend you the most, you just need to fully TRUST in what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life.

Do you have a verse or passage that clearly communicates this opinion of yours? That is the key.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:26-29

There are no words in this passage that communicates loss of salvation. This passage is a warning to sinful believers that God's discipline can include physical death.

You need to include verse 27 with 28…
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28
This verse clearly states that the ones that “follow him” will be given eternal life.

Actually, not. You are trying to create a "conditional clause" where NONE exists.

V.27 is a description of what His sheep DO, or OUGHT TO DO. There is nothing that communicates a conditon for receiving eternal life.

Doesn’t that imply that if you stop following Him you will not receive eternal life? If not Why not?

First, v.27 doesn't say that. Second, Jesus made very clear HOW one possesses eternal life in John 5:24.

"“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

It is those who believe who HAVE (possess) eternal life. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 all say the same thing.

So, 10:28 makes clear that recipients of eternal life (the MOMENT one believes) they shall never perish.

If your name is in the book of life; are you saved? Yes or no?

Of course.

What the Bible doesn't say is that eternal life can be removed/taken away/lost/etc.

And if there were such a verse, it would directly CONTRADICT what Jesus said.

The whole point of v.28 is that those given eternal life (which is when they believe) shall never perish.

When Jesus gives the gift, the recipient shall never perish.

One either believes that or they do not. But it's true nevertheless.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So do you believe that a person who dies not believing in Jesus can go to heaven?

Depends on whether they EVER believed. Because the Bible is clear that condemnation is for those who 'have not believed'.

Once a person believes, according to John 5:24 with 10:28, they shall NEVER PERISH.

If a person dies who "has not believed", then they CANNOT go to heaven. Because they "have not believed".

 

[FreeGrace2]

What you don't realize is that Jesus demands EXCLUSIVE belief in Him.

I don't know what this means. And neither does the Bible. Can you quote a verse that speaks of "exclusive belief" in Him?

I need more than an opinion. I need the Word of God.

He must be your one and only, not one of many. If He's not Lord of all, then He's not Lord at all.

Quite a sentiment. But the Bible doesn't teach this. Many pastors do, but they only show how little of the Bible they really know.

Jesus Christ is Lord of all, whether anyone accepts that or not. At the GWT judgment, which will be attended by unbelievers only, you can bet that "every knee will bow" to Him.

That rich young ruler was definitely a believer, he was down on his knees asking how to inherit eternal life.

How could he be a believer when he didn't know how to be saved??? He loved his money and wealth more than the first commandment.

He wasn't even close to evangelism yet. Jesus had to show him where his own sin was. He thought he had kept the commandments from his youth, but he didn't even obey the first one. And he went away sad, because he loved his wealth more.

But at the end he left with a sad face. Why? 'Cause he had to choose between his great wealth and Jesus.

He wasn't given that choice. Jesus had shown him where his own sin really was.

Jesus wasn't promoting socialism as some people wrongfully conclude, he was testing that man's commitment, and unfortunately, he didn't pass.

The man didn't have any commitment. btw, no one is saved by their "commitment", as many pastors teach.

Man is saved by trusting in the work of Jesus, rather than their own work. And commitment is a work.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible is clear; those who HAVE believed shall never perish. It seems you differ on that.

It is those who "have not believed" that will be condemned.

What about the parable of the lost sheep?

What kind of question is this? Don't you believe John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 about who will be condemned??

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

The Greek for "repent" means to change the mind with the idea of changing direction. Not specifically about getting saved.

They are a sheep which means they are clearly a part of the fold. They wander off and are lost. If they aren’t lost then why try and find them?

Same as the prodigal son. He remained a son the whole time. His father described the son as being "lost" and "dead", yet he was very much alive and knew exactly where he was.

These words are used as figures of speech to describe the relationship between father and son. Jesus wasn't teaching about whether the son was unsaved or saved, as most pastors wrongly teach. He was teaching about the loss or dead of fellowship between father and son. Same for the lost sheep. You are correct that being sheep, they were part of the fold.

They then rejoiced over the sheep that was LOST. If you sin and don’t repent and die in that sin then you will be lost.

No, believers who sin and don't repent (confess and turn back to the Lord) are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP and will miss out on God's blessings and will face God's discipline, which will be painful, according to Heb 12:11.

James says the same thing….
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20
James is writing to Christian’s. This is talking about a brother Christian that “errs from the truth“. They sin and need to be brought back In order to “save a soul from death”. There are many more passages and examples but I feel you are just a denier and will stay that way.

yes, the same thing. It's about sin getting believers out of fellowship and being "brought back" means repentance and confession, just as the prodigal did.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's not with a condescending attitude I denounce OSAS as a doctrine of devils

You are calling Jesus a devil then. He was real clear about eternal security.

In John 5:24 He said that those who believe POSSESS (have) eternal life. That would mean the MOMENT they believe.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life (those who have believed) shall never perish.

iow, from the MOMENT one believes, they possess eternal life and shall never perish.

- it's with strong desire to help people escape satanic lies intended to lead to eternal death those who think they've got eternal life.

Eternal security is no lie from satan. It is from the lips of Jesus. You might want to re-examine yourself.

 

[CNKW3]

FreeGrace2 said:

There are no words in this passage that communicates loss of salvation. This passage is a warning to sinful believers that God's discipline can include physical death.

Judgment and fiery indignation is physical death? Since when has the NT letters been concerned with physical death? Jesus said not to fear him that can kill the body but fear the one that can kill the body and soul in hell. Rev 2:10 tells us to be faithful unto death (even it kills you) and you will receive a crown of life.

Actually, not. You are trying to create a "conditional clause" where NONE exists.

V.27 is a description of what His sheep DO, or OUGHT TO DO. There is nothing that communicates a conditon for receiving eternal life.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28
If you will carefully look at this passage there is a semicolon and the conjunction AND between 27 and 28 which means it is a continuing thought. You cannot take 28 without 27. So if they stop following Jesus there is NO promise of eternal life.

First, v.27 doesn't say that. Second, Jesus made very clear HOW one possesses eternal life in John 5:24.

"“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

It is those who believe who HAVE (possess) eternal life. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 all say the same thing.

So, 10:28 makes clear that recipients of eternal life (the MOMENT one believes) they shall never perish.

NOWHERE in the Bible does it EVER say “the moment one believes (mental ascent) they receive eternal life. That is a lie.
If you would read the entire chapter of John 3 you will find out exactly what TRUE biblical belief is…
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
John 3:36
So a true biblical believer is one who OBEYS. So, no eternal life does not come at the “moment one believes”. That is why Heb 5:9 says…
Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all that OBEY him. There is no “Moment of belief” there.
Please provide one passage that says….ALL you have to do is believe with no action required and your sins are removed.

Of course.

What the Bible doesn't say is that eternal life can be removed/taken away/lost/etc.

And if there were such a verse, it would directly CONTRADICT what Jesus said.

The whole point of v.28 is that those given eternal life (which is when they believe) shall never perish.

When Jesus gives the gift, the recipient shall never perish.

One either believes that or they do not. But it's true nevertheless.

You want it? Hear it is. Plain as can be. Any reasonable person can understand what I’m about to show you.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 3:4-5
Here is Christ writing to the Church (all believers) in Sardis and he point blank says…IF you don’t overcome sin I will BLOT OUT YOUR NAME OF THE BOOK OF LIFE. How can you have your name blotted out of something you were never in. Impossible.
I’m not through.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
The last thing Jesus had to say to these Christian’s in the seven Churches in Asia was that IF any of them manipulated this book in any way God would remove them from the book of life. WHAT? NO WAY. I didnt think it was possible. But there it is point blank. You were in the book which you say means you were saved but you failed and now you are no longer in the book which means you are lost. It’s not really that difficult to understand. It’s horrible teaching like the one you are promoting that is destroying Christianity. After your easy belief it doesn’t matter what you do so that is why we see “Christian’s” living like the devil all over the place. There ticket is punched and life don’t matter any more.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Quite a sentiment. But the Bible doesn't teach this. Many pastors do, but they only show how little of the Bible they really know.

Jesus Christ is Lord of all, whether anyone accepts that or not. At the GWT judgment, which will be attended by unbelievers only, you can bet that "every knee will bow" to Him.

What makes you, a random guy on the internet, greater than all those pastors? Since you know it very well that this is about the first commandment, why dismissing this as a “sentiment”?

Tell you what, lots of people claim they believe in God, they pour out their hearts to God and give thanks to God, even some scientists admit that there gotta be a creator of the universe, no need to wait for the GWT for that; but if you preach Jesus to them, then they get mad and offended. You know why? They are universalists, they believe there’re many ways leading up to God, that’s what the pope promoted; while Jesus taught that He’s the ONLY way, anything else is the broad way that leads to hell.

So yes, of course, Jesus is the king of kings and the lord of lords, but is he the king of kings and the lord of lords to you? Or A king among kings and A lord among lords? You know one cannot serve two masters, right? You need Word of God, then go check your bible and see where these references come from since you think you’re so smart that you can override those pastors’ authority.

 

[CNKW3]

FreeGrace2 said:

What kind of question is this? Don't you believe John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 about who will be condemned??

Jesus taught kingdom principles through the parables so they are valuable learning tools.

The Greek for "repent" means to change the mind with the idea of changing direction. Not specifically about getting saved.

Jesus said in Lk 3…unless you repent you will all like wise perish. Sounds like a salvation issue to me. You are pretty radical to say that repentance is not necessary for salvation. Good luck with that!
acts 17:30, acts 3:19

Same as the prodigal son. He remained a son the whole time. His father described the son as being "lost" and "dead", yet he was very much alive and knew exactly where he was.

These words are used as figures of speech to describe the relationship between father and son. Jesus wasn't teaching about whether the son was unsaved or saved, as most pastors wrongly teach. He was teaching about the loss or dead of fellowship between father and son. Same for the lost sheep. You are correct that being sheep, they were part of the fold.

So the lost son was still saved while living in the pig pen? HaHa.
Your doctrine has many Christians living in the pig pen thinking…hey I’m still on my way to heaven.

No, believers who sin and don't repent (confess and turn back to the Lord) are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP and will miss out on God's blessings and will face God's discipline, which will be painful, according to Heb 12:11.


yes, the same thing. It's about sin getting believers out of fellowship and being "brought back" means repentance and confession, just as the prodigal did.

There is a basic principle taught throughout the Bible and goes like this…
And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.
2 Chronicles 15:2
This was spoken directly to Gods covenant people. As long as you follow after and seek God he will be with you…BUT IF you don’t he will leave (forsake) you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:

There are no words in this passage that communicates loss of salvation. This passage is a warning to sinful believers that God's discipline can include physical death.

Judgment and fiery indignation is physical death?

As a matter of fact. What do you think it refers to? Remember that every person is born spiritually dead and in need of being born again, just as Jesus told Nic.

Since when has the NT letters been concerned with physical death?

Not simply physical death. It is appointed ONCE for man to die, and then the judgment. Heb 9:27.

1 Cor 11:30 and 5:5 both show clearly that physical death is part of God's discipline for disobedient believers. And there are more.

Jesus said not to fear him that can kill the body but fear the one that can kill the body and soul in hell.

Do you believe in annihilation of the soul?

Rev 2:10 tells us to be faithful unto death (even it kills you) and you will receive a crown of life.

Right. Eternal reward for faithfulness.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28
If you will carefully look at this passage there is a semicolon and the conjunction AND between 27 and 28 which means it is a continuing thought.

Well, of course v.28 is a continuing thought from v.27. But does that mean receiving eternal life is based on hearing and following? No, it does not. Again, v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO.

"His sheep" means believer. And we know from John 5:24 who is given eternal life: those who believe. They possess (have) eternal life.

So Jesus is teaching that from the moment of saving faith in Him, the believer possesses eternal life and shall never perish.

Prove me wrong.

You cannot take 28 without 27.

And I don't. But v.27 isn't a "condition" for v.28. That is a lie at worst, and a gross misreading of the verses at best. Take your pick.

So if they stop following Jesus there is NO promise of eternal life.

Nonsense.

Receiving eternal life is based on faith or believing on Jesus. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47. Apparently you don't believe any of these wonderful verses.

NOWHERE in the Bible does it EVER say “the moment one believes (mental ascent) they receive eternal life.

John 5:24 DOES, and does clearly.

That is a lie.

I'm not lying. You are ignorant of the Bible.

If you would read the entire chapter of John 3 you will find out exactly what TRUE biblical belief is…
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
John 3:36
So a true biblical believer is one who OBEYS. So, no eternal life does not come at the “moment one believes”. That is why Heb 5:9 says…
Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all that OBEY him. There is no “Moment of belief” there.

The Greek word for "not obey" means to "disbelieve". So you still don't have a point.

You can disbelieve john 5:24 all you want. The consequences are on you.

Please provide one passage that says….ALL you have to do is believe with no action required and your sins are removed.

I don't cater to demands for specific wording to satisfy unbelievers. But the NT is full of verses that prove that at the moment of faith one's sins are forgiven. You can begin with believing Acts 10:43.

Any reasonable person can understand what I’m about to show you.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 3:4-5
Here is Christ writing to the Church (all believers) in Sardis and he point blank says…IF you don’t overcome sin I will BLOT OUT YOUR NAME OF THE BOOK OF LIFE.

"I will not erase his name from the book of life" This is a strong DOUBLE NEGATIVE. When citizens died, their names would be erased from the rolls of their city but God will never erase believers from His rolls.
This metaphorical phrase "the book of life" is also found in Rev. 20:12-15, where two books are mentioned:

1. the book of life which is made up of the names of God's people (cf. Exod. 32:32-33; Ps. 69:28; Isa. 4:3; Dan. 12:1; Luke 10:20; Phil. 4:3; Heb. 12:23; Rev 13:8; 17:8; 20:12,15; 21:27)
2. the book of deeds or remembrances which records the deeds of both the wicked and righteous (cf. Ps. 56:8, 139:16; Isa. 65:6; Mal. 3:16)

From: http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/new_testament_studies/VOL12/VOL12_02.html

How can you have your name blotted out of something you were never in. Impossible.

If you can find ANY verse that actually shows that God removes salvation, you would have a point.

I’m not through.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

This is about removing eternal rewards from believers who add or remove from God's Word.

The last thing Jesus had to say to these Christian’s in the seven Churches in Asia was that IF any of them manipulated this book in any way God would remove them from the book of life.

No He didn't say or mean that. You are simply misreading what He said.

WHAT? NO WAY. I didnt think it was possible. But there it is point blank. You were in the book which you say means you were saved but you failed and now you are no longer in the book which means you are lost.

You are simply reading a whol lot of PRESUMPTION into the verse.

It’s not really that difficult to understand. It’s horrible teaching like the one you are promoting that is destroying Christianity. After your easy belief it doesn’t matter what you do so that is why we see “Christian’s” living like the devil all over the place. There ticket is punched and life don’t matter any more.

Your error is gross. Your pastors get an F.

Paul's answer to the jailer summarizes exactly how one is saved. But you seem to NOT LIKE that. So you mock it by calling it "easy believism".

You can mock all you want. It seems you believe that LIFESTYLE plays an important role in one's salvation.

That is exactly what Satan wants everyone to think. You have been deceived.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Quite a sentiment. But the Bible doesn't teach this. Many pastors do, but they only show how little of the Bible they really know.

Jesus Christ is Lord of all, whether anyone accepts that or not. At the GWT judgment, which will be attended by unbelievers only, you can bet that "every knee will bow" to Him.

What makes you, a random guy on the internet, greater than all those pastors?

What a ridiculous conclusion from what I said. I proved my point from Scripture: every knee will bow before Christ.

Since you know it very well that this is about the first commandment, why dismissing this as a “sentiment”?

No one is saved by love. People are saved by trusting in Christ. Love should follow. And, in fact, is commanded.

Tell you what, lots of people claim they believe in God, they pour out their hearts to God and give thanks to God, even some scientists admit that there gotta be a creator of the universe, no need to wait for the GWT for that; but if you preach Jesus to them, then they get mad and offended. You know why? They are universalists, they believe there’re many ways leading up to God, that’s what the pope promoted; while Jesus taught that He’s the ONLY way, anything else is the broad way that leads to hell.

And I fully agree with this. Why would you think I don't?

So yes, of course, Jesus is the king of kings and the lord of lords, but is he the king of kings and the lord of lords to you?

That's a legitimate question for EVERY believer.

btw, your theology of "Lordship salvation" from John McArthur or whoever is refuted by Peter's words in 1 Pet 3:15.
"But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,"

The command to "sanctify Christ AS LORD" is given to believers. No one is saved by "making Christ Lord". He already IS Lord.

And believers are commanded to make Him Lord. Figure that out.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:

What kind of question is this? Don't you believe John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 about who will be condemned??

Jesus taught kingdom principles through the parables so they are valuable learning tools.

So you don't want to admit that you don't believe the 2 verses then??

And Jesus used parables to teach principles in a way that negative people wouldn't understand. And even His disciples didn't understand them.

So the lost son was still saved while living in the pig pen? HaHa.

Did Jesus refer to him as a "son" throughout the parable or did that change in the parable?

Your doctrine has many Christians living in the pig pen thinking…hey I’m still on my way to heaven.

Was the son happy in that pigpen? That's what got him to repent and confess. It's called divine discipline.

There is a basic principle taught throughout the Bible and goes like this…
And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.
2 Chronicles 15:2
This was spoken directly to Gods covenant people. As long as you follow after and seek God he will be with you…BUT IF you don’t he will leave (forsake) you.

This is referring to blessings. Believers who forsake God will lose His blessings. That's how God forsakes His children. He lets them alone.

Since you apparently believe your LIFESTYLE will determine your salvation, your theology is that of the Pharisees. And Jesus told them they would DIE IN THEIR SINS UNLESS THEY BELIEVED THAT HE WAS THE MESSIAH.

Jesus condemned them for their dependence on works. Think about it.

 

[CNKW3]

FreeGrace2 said:
As a matter of fact. What do you think it refers to? Remember that every person is born spiritually dead and in need of being born again, just as Jesus told Nic.

Paul said this…
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8
pretty clear that on one side is eternal life and the other. Indignation and wrath. It means eternal punishment.

People are not born spiritually dead. People spiritually die as they grow and sin.

Not simply physical death. It is appointed ONCE for man to die, and then the judgment. Heb 9:27.

1 Cor 11:30 and 5:5 both show clearly that physical death is part of God's discipline for disobedient believers. And there are more.

So you have Paul commanding that the Corinthians kill the man in order to save his soul? That’s what he said…he ordered them to “deliver such a one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh. I don’t agree. You deliver a one to satan by putting him out of the church. It is called church discipline.
Yes, if you eat, drink or treat your body in an ill way you may die. Happens everyday.

Do you believe in annihilation of the soul?

no. Eternal torment

Right. Eternal reward for faithfulness.

What kind of rewards? Are there cheap seats in heaven for those who weren’t quite good enough? Didnt know that Heaven has a slum part. Didnt know that heaven was a place for medals. If I’m there ill let you have all of mine.

Well, of course v.28 is a continuing thought from v.27. But does that mean receiving eternal life is based on hearing and following? No, it does not. Again, v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO.

So what if you don’t hear? Can you be saved? What if you hear and don’t follow? Can you still be saved? It is all one thought. You must hear and follow if you don’t follow you wont receive.

The Greek word for "not obey" means to "disbelieve". So you still don't have a point.

You can disbelieve john 5:24 all you want. The consequences are on you.

No just the opposite. In Jn 3:18. The word disbelieve is used twice. They are both the word pisteuon
In Jn 3:36 the first word-disbelieve is pisteuon and the second word is apeithon which literally means…to not obey. So the conclusion to the whole chapter is summed up this way…..A true believer in the NT is one who has obeyed. Not just Some mental exercise on your bed one night.

"I will not erase his name from the book of life"

This is a strong DOUBLE NEGATIVE. When citizens died, their names would be erased from the rolls of their city but God will never erase believers from His rolls.
This metaphorical phrase "the book of life" is also found in Rev. 20:12-15, where two books are mentioned:

1. the book of life which is made up of the names of God's people (cf. Exod. 32:32-33; Ps. 69:28; Isa. 4:3; Dan. 12:1; Luke 10:20; Phil. 4:3; Heb. 12:23; Rev 13:8; 17:8; 20:12,15; 21:27)
2. the book of deeds or remembrances which records the deeds of both the wicked and righteous (cf. Ps. 56:8, 139:16; Isa. 65:6; Mal. 3:16)

From: http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/new_testament_studies/VOL12/VOL12_02.html


If you can find ANY verse that actually shows that God removes salvation, you would have a point.


This is about removing eternal rewards from believers who add or remove from God's Word.


No He didn't say or mean that. You are simply misreading what He said.


You are simply reading a whol lot of PRESUMPTION into the verse.


Your error is gross. Your pastors get an F.

You SPECIFICALLY said that to be in the book means you are saved! This means that salvation is removed when your name is taken out. Now you have flipped flopped and said its about removing rewards. Haha. Nice try.

Paul's answer to the jailer summarizes exactly how one is saved. But you seem to NOT LIKE that. So you mock it by calling it "easy believism".

You can mock all you want. It seems you believe that LIFESTYLE plays an important role in one's salvation.

That is exactly what Satan wants everyone to think. You have been deceived.

Why do you stop at Acts 16:31. The story continues…
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
Acts 16:30-34
We have a man here who, in the middle of the night,
1. heard the preaching of Paul,
2. he believed,
3. He repented, (he washed their stripes)
4. He was then immediately baptized
When does the text call him a ”believer”. Before or after baptism? AFTER.
Isnt that what Peter taught in acts 2. Believe, repent and be baptized in order to remove sins? I don’t understand why you would completely destroy and distort a beautiful text like Acts 16

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That's a legitimate question for EVERY believer.

btw, your theology of "Lordship salvation" from John McArthur or whoever is refuted by Peter's words in 1 Pet 3:15.
"But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,"

The command to "sanctify Christ AS LORD" is given to believers. No one is saved by "making Christ Lord". He already IS Lord.

And believers are commanded to make Him Lord. Figure that out.

That portion of the Scripture, Peter encouraged believers to endure suffering and not be afraid of persecution, he was echoing what Jesus taught in Matt. 5:11-12. How does that refure the lordship of Christ?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
As a matter of fact. What do you think it refers to? Remember that every person is born spiritually dead and in need of being born again, just as Jesus told Nic.

Paul said this…

Before you tell me wht Paul said, why do you ignore my comments? Why be so dismissive? If you disagree, prove why you do.

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8
pretty clear that on one side is eternal life and the other. Indignation and wrath. It means eternal punishment.

Well, this shows that you really DO believe that lifestyle is how people are saved then.

These 2 verses are about a person who is sinless, since you seem not to know that. "continuance in doing good/well" means no sin. For them, they don't need Christ's atonement and don't need grace for salvation. They have earned it. That is clearly what Paul means.

He then proves that NO ONE "continues to do good" in Rom 3-
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;

So here, Paul refutes the notion that any can "continue to do good" and earn eternal life.

Not only that, he continues to pound the point home-
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, if you are counting on Rom 2;7,8 as your hope (wishful thinking) for eternal life, Paul has totally destroyed that notion.

People are not born spiritually dead. People spiritually die as they grow and sin.

Romans 5:15 - But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

iow, humanity is born separated from God and needs to be born again.

However, if spiritual death does come at the first sin, it doesn't matter, because by the time you were an adult, you already sinned and are separated. So your point is moot.

So you have Paul commanding that the Corinthians kill the man in order to save his soul?

Wow. Didn't you read the verse? Obviously not. Here it is:
1 Cor 5:5 - hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

It is Satan that God uses to discipline a disobedient believer. I can hardly believe your comment!!

That’s what he said…he ordered them to “deliver such a one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh.

Read what you posted just above. You thought I had Paul commanding believers to kill the incestuous man. Why would I cite a verse and totally misrepresent it?

I don’t agree. You deliver a one to satan by putting him out of the church. It is called church discipline.

Read the verse. It is clear enough.

Yes, if you eat, drink or treat your body in an ill way you may die. Happens everyday.

no. Eternal torment

Not for anyone who has believed on Christ for salvation. Or Jesus wasn't telling the truth in John 5:24 and 10:28.

What kind of rewards? Are there cheap seats in heaven for those who weren’t quite good enough? Didnt know that Heaven has a slum part. Didnt know that heaven was a place for medals. If I’m there ill let you have all of mine.

Well, I certainly agree with your comment about what you "didn't know". That's quite obvious.

I can't blame you for your ignorance of reward in eternity. Blame falls on the lazy or ignorant pastors who fail to study and learn what God's Word says.

Col 3-
23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,
24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

By definition, a reward is EARNED. But salvation is by grace, not by works.

Rev 22:12 - “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

So what if you don’t hear? Can you be saved?

Many believers aren't hearing biblical teaching. They are saved but ignorant. Paul wrote 4 times "I don't want you to be ignorant" in his epistles.

If a person doesn't hear the gospel, then yes, they can't be saved. But I'm talking about believers.

What if you hear and don’t follow? Can you still be saved?

Since hearing and following commands for lifestyle cannot save you, yes you can be saved. By faith in Christ.

It is all one thought. You must hear and follow if you don’t follow you wont receive.

Except there are NO WORDS in v.27 or 28 that support your wrong claim.

Your theology is a works salvation one. Or lifestyle salvation. You're saved by what you do or don't do. That's what the Pharisees thought too.

And Jesus told them they would DIE IN THEIR SINS unless they believe that He was the Messiah.

So, good luck on your lifestyle efforts. Not that it'll matter.


No just the opposite. In Jn 3:18. The word disbelieve is used twice. They are both the word pisteuon
In Jn 3:36 the first word-disbelieve is pisteuon and the second word is apeithon which literally means…to not obey. So the conclusion to the whole chapter is summed up this way…..A true believer in the NT is one who has obeyed. Not just Some mental exercise on your bed one night.


You SPECIFICALLY said that to be in the book means you are saved! This means that salvation is removed when your name is taken out. Now you have flipped flopped and said its about removing rewards. Haha. Nice try.

Why do you stop at Acts 16:31. The story continues…
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
Acts 16:30-34
We have a man here who, in the middle of the night,
1. heard the preaching of Paul,
2. he believed,
3. He repented, (he washed their stripes)
4. He was then immediately baptized
When does the text call him a ”believer”. Before or after baptism? AFTER.
Isnt that what Peter taught in acts 2. Believe, repent and be baptized in order to remove sins? I don’t understand why you would completely destroy and distort a beautiful text like Acts 16[/QUOTE]