Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Runningman]

This is a great way to create a straw man. Those who truly believe also truly repent, and turn away from their sins and idols. Indeed salvation is conditioned about repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). Which means that the murderer stops murdering, and the evildoer stops doing evil. That is what happened when Saul of Tarsus became Paul the preacher of the Gospel and the missionary to the Gentiles. The Bible says repent AND BE CONVERTED that your sins may be blotted out. So all this nonsensical talk undermines the Bible truth regarding the eternal security of the believer. See Romans 8.

You don't understand.

For one, Christian's absolutely do not suddenly stop committing sins once they convert.

As you can see here below, these babes IN Christ are carnal, are envying, have strife, and have divisions; they're sinning a lot but also in Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Paul continued a life of sin well into his ministry as an apostle:

Romans 7:13-25
13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Every time you comment to me it's a new heresy. I wish you would think these through a bit more before coming to me like this.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

In 2 Pet 1:1-11, the Apostle beseeches us to "make every effort to confirm [our] calling and election".

2 Pet 1:

"5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Did you notice that Paul called these carnal Christians "brethren"? Which means that he did not doubt their salvation for one minute. Indeed this is how he began his first epistle to the Corinthians:
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (1 Cor 1:2).

So this is their identity: (1) they were sanctified in Christ Jesus because they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit, and (2) they were "called saints" (or sanctified ones) even though they were carnal (or at least some of them, not the whole church). ["to be" would mean in the future, but that is not in the Greek text. "to be" is in italics, and in this case misleading. As soon as a person receives the Holy Spirit, God sees him or her as "a saint". ] Did they lose their salvation because they were carnal? Not if you believe that Paul was writing Scripture (which comes directly from God).

So does God tolerate carnality or does He rebuke and chasten the ones He loves? That chastening (which is only for sons and daughters) can extend to "the sin unto death" (premature death) if a Christian fails to confess his sins and turn away from them (repent). Therefore we have numerous exhortations to walk in the Spirit and not to fulfil the lusts of the flesh. So when someone sins habitually, they are not even saved. True Christians will stop sinning as soon as they realize that they are indeed sinning. They will forsake their idols as soon as they are converted.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

The context of 1 Jn suggests the sin unto death is not physical death, but spiritual death. God told Adam, "In the day you sin, you will die". Was He speaking of physical death? Adam lost the Holy Spirit when he sinned, and that imho is what God was referring to.

Compare: "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not, abideth in death." (1 Jn 3:14). This is clearly spiritual life and spiritual death.

And: "16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he should ask God, who will give life to those who commit this kind of sin. There is a sin that leads to death; I am not saying he should ask regarding that sin. 17All unrighteousness is sin, yet there is sin that does not lead to death." (1 Jn 5:16).

And so, the Bible teaches, if we commit a sin, like apostasy or denying Christ etc, we can "sin unto death" spiritually, i.e. lose the Spirit.

But for any sin, even this, if we "8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 Jn 1:8-9). God Bless.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

On what God said to Adam: "Clearly in the context of Genesis 3, Adam and Eve died spiritually instantly—they were separated from God and hid themselves. Their relationship with God was broken. But in Romans 5:12 we see in context that Paul is clearly speaking of physical death (Jesus’ physical death, verses 8–10, and other men’s physical death, in verse 14). We also find the same comparison of physical death and physical resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:20–22. So both spiritual death and physical death are the consequences of Adam’s fall." https://answersingenesis.org/death-before-sin/genesis-2-17-you-shall-surely-die/

 

[Runningman]

Did you notice that Paul called these carnal Christians "brethren"? Which means that he did not doubt their salvation for one minute. Indeed this is how he began his first epistle to the Corinthians:
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (1 Cor 1:2).

So this is their identity: (1) they were sanctified in Christ Jesus because they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit, and (2) they were "called saints" (or sanctified ones) even though they were carnal (or at least some of them, not the whole church). ["to be" would mean in the future, but that is not in the Greek text. "to be" is in italics, and in this case misleading. As soon as a person receives the Holy Spirit, God sees him or her as "a saint". ] Did they lose their salvation because they were carnal? Not if you believe that Paul was writing Scripture (which comes directly from God).

So does God tolerate carnality or does He rebuke and chasten the ones He loves? That chastening (which is only for sons and daughters) can extend to "the sin unto death" (premature death) if a Christian fails to confess his sins and turn away from them (repent). Therefore we have numerous exhortations to walk in the Spirit and not to fulfil the lusts of the flesh. So when someone sins habitually, they are not even saved. True Christians will stop sinning as soon as they realize that they are indeed sinning. They will forsake their idols as soon as they are converted.

On some points we agree. Do you agree that when someone is no longer even trying to stop sinning that they have fell from grace?

1 John 3:6-9
6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

1 Jn 5:

"The True God

18We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning; the One who was born of God protects him,d and the evil onee cannot touch him. 19We know that we are of God, and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one. 20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

 

[ResidentAlien]

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you have a verse or passage that clearly communicates this opinion of yours? That is the key.

I think that is just a reckless statement.


So you just bypass His Word and get your "information" directly? Really? Quite a boast, it seems.


Why are you here then?

I know you desperately need to debate someone but I'm not the guy. Have a good day.

 

[Runningman]

This is a great way to create a straw man. Those who truly believe also truly repent, and turn away from their sins and idols. Indeed salvation is conditioned about repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). Which means that the murderer stops murdering, and the evildoer stops doing evil. That is what happened when Saul of Tarsus became Paul the preacher of the Gospel and the missionary to the Gentiles. The Bible says repent AND BE CONVERTED that your sins may be blotted out. So all this nonsensical talk undermines the Bible truth regarding the eternal security of the believer. See Romans 8.

another question for you…. You said “truly repent.” What is true repentance?

 

[Snacks]

nothing can be done to stop Jesus from saving us, but we can choose to not be saved.

That seems to be diametrically impossible.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That seems to be diametrically impossible.

He warned that false prophets will rise in the last days IN HIS NAME and deceived many - even the elect! You must've heard about these unbiblical versions of Jesus from the pulpit - hipster Jesus, New Age Jesus, socialist Jesus, etc. His own disciples were expecting a Zionist Jesus back in the days of His ministry.

 

[FreeGrace2]

LOL! I don't waste time answering "what if" questions -- I will just go back to reading Scripture and keeping my faith in my Redeemer.
What I do know is that if a person believes in Jesus' atonement - they have eternal life.
If they don't believe, they do not have eternal life.

Well, your response certainly suggested that you believe that if one ceases to believe, they are no longer saved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Christian assurance is quite simple: Do you believe? (Not did you believe, or did you do works)

The Bible is clear; those who HAVE believed shall never perish. It seems you differ on that.

It is those who "have not believed" that will be condemned.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If someone believes in Jesus then they can just believe in Him then go commit genocide and then with open arms God will love them unconditionally?

Your question shows that you believe that one's LIFESTYLE is part of getting saved. Yet, the Bible does NOT teach that.

God's love is unconditional, period. It's not based on one's lifestyle.

I mean, how can it even be said that someone who believes in Jesus then goes and commits atrocities is any different than a demon who also believes then intentionally tries to destroy the faith of someone?

Aren't you aware of King David? He committed rape and murder to cover his rotten deed. Did he lose salvation?

Your heresy toolkit seems to include a false doctrine called Easy Believism which is itself exactly the opposite of what Jesus taught.

We are saved by grace THROUGH faith. If you don't want to believe that, that's your choice.

If you want to include one's LIFESTYLE how to get saved, you are on your own. The Bible does NOT teach that.

Let's look up what Jesus says about those who don't do God's will. Do you know?

Show me.

God's will is found in John 6:40.

 

[arthurfleminger]

Many will claim that they have been saved at one point in their lives and that they can't lose that salvation because they believe in Jesus, OSAS.

Unfortunately, those 'Christians' who claim to have faith in Jesus but whose faith has lapsed and they are living in darkness and sin, they are in danger of losing their immortal soul. Many Christians have left Jesus for the things of this world, and we all know who the 'Lord of this World' is.

Knowing Christians by their Fruit Jesus once said that “ You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles ” (Matt 7:16)? This is because “ every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.

All 'professed Christians' must look inwardly at ourselves and ask, "Is my faith in Jesus a healthy faith or a diseased faith?"
OSAS is a false doctrine. We can always reject Jesus for the things of the world anytime we choose to do so.

There are many lukewarm/fake Christians and we know that Jesus chooses to vomit them out of His mouth.

 

[CNKW3]

FreeGrace2 said:
But since Jesus Christ died for ALL sins, including the ones that seem to offend you the most, you just need to fully TRUST in what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life.

Do you have a verse or passage that clearly communicates this opinion of yours? That is the key.

If you are correct, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 CANNOT BE TRUE.

Are you willing to accept that?

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:26-29

You need to include verse 27 with 28…
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28
This verse clearly states that the ones that “follow him” will be given eternal life. Doesn’t that imply that if you stop following Him you will not receive eternal life? If not Why not?

If your name is in the book of life; are you saved? Yes or no?

 

[Chester]

Well, your response certainly suggested that you believe that if one ceases to believe, they are no longer saved.

So do you believe that a person who dies not believing in Jesus can go to heaven?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The Bible is clear; those who HAVE believed shall never perish. It seems you differ on that.

It is those who "have not believed" that will be condemned.

What you don't realize is that Jesus demands EXCLUSIVE belief in Him. He must be your one and only, not one of many. If He's not Lord of all, then He's not Lord at all. That rich young ruler was definitely a believer, he was down on his knees asking how to inherit eternal life. But at the end he left with a sad face. Why? 'Cause he had to choose between his great wealth and Jesus. Jesus wasn't promoting socialism as some people wrongfully conclude, he was testing that man's commitment, and unfortunately, he didn't pass.

Aren't you aware of King David? He committed rape and murder to cover his rotten deed. Did he lose salvation?

No, but he was held accountable for what he did. He suffered dire consequences in his twilight years, his children rebelled against him.

 

[CNKW3]

The Bible is clear; those who HAVE believed shall never perish. It seems you differ on that.

It is those who "have not believed" that will be condemned.

What about the parable of the lost sheep?
What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

They are a sheep which means they are clearly a part of the fold. They wander off and are lost. If they aren’t lost then why try and find them? They then rejoiced over the sheep that was LOST. If you sin and don’t repent and die in that sin then you will be lost.

James says the same thing….
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20
James is writing to Christian’s. This is talking about a brother Christian that “errs from the truth“. They sin and need to be brought back In order to “save a soul from death”. There are many more passages and examples but I feel you are just a denier and will stay that way.

 

[Magenta]

... losing their immortal soul.

See 1 Timothy 6:16.