Gen 18:23

[pottersclay]

Genesis 18:23-33 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his house.


This is why I believe the rapture will take place.
Remember lot could go to another land because sodom was a city but where could you escape when the whole world is under judgement?

Also jesus talks about abrahams bosom a place where saints of the old testament were kept untill Jesus opened the doors of heaven for the faithful.

Jesus has many titles in the new testament. Redeemer, Lord, savior, son of man, son of david, son of God, ect .
Each title he had because of his ability to be the savior, Lord ect but the oddest one and frankly new as far as I know is bridegroom.....strange. only in the new did i find this.
But then since the church is a bride in waiting I guess that makes sense.
THe story of abraham is a story of a father seeking a bride for his only son and out of it comes the birth of a nation. Guess that fits.
But how does the bridegroom act? What does he do? How does he do it? When?

 

[Live4Him3]

This is why I believe the rapture will take place.

Remember lot could go to another land because sodom was a city but where could you escape when the whole world is under judgement?

Here's a question for you:

When judgment came upon Sodom and Gomorrah, was there an interval of 7 years or 3 1/2 years between the time that Lot fled and judgment came or did both occur on the same exact day?

Here's another question for you:

When global judgment came via a worldwide flood in the days of Noah, was there an interval of 7 years or 3 1/2 years between the time that Noah and his family entered the ark and judgment came or did both occur on the same exact day?

Jesus said:

Luke chapter 17

[26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

According to Jesus Christ, BOTH deliverance and judgment occurred on the same day in the days of Noah and the days of Lot, and Jesus said "so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man" or "even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed".

II Thessalonians chapter 1

[3] We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
[4] So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
[5] Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
[6] Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Same scenario.

Rest for the troubled saints "in that day" and fiery judgment for the wicked "in that day".

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Here's a question for you:

When judgment came upon Sodom and Gomorrah, was there an interval of 7 years or 3 1/2 years between the time that Lot fled and judgment came or did both occur on the same exact day?

Here's another question for you:

When global judgment came via a worldwide flood in the days of Noah, was there an interval of 7 years or 3 1/2 years between the time that Noah and his family entered the ark and judgment came or did both occur on the same exact day?

Jesus said:

Luke chapter 17

[26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27] They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

According to Jesus Christ, BOTH deliverance and judgment occurred on the same day in the days of Noah and the days of Lot, and Jesus said "so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man" or "even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed".

II Thessalonians chapter 1

[3] We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
[4] So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
[5] Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
[6] Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Same scenario.

Rest for the troubled saints "in that day" and fiery judgment for the wicked "in that day".

amen one moment many will be saved others destroyed just like in Noah’s day the only warninng was Gods word and then sudden destruction

or lots day the moment lot escaped the city was destroyed instantly as soon as he was clear thats how it will be. Jesus appearing gathering his people and the rest will be like sodom and Gomorrah . The only warning is to hear the gospel and respond as if it’s true

 

[pottersclay]

Well to answer both your questions jesus compared sodom and noahs day of judgement more towards how the hearts of the people were and how severe the judgement. Also there was no antichrist to anticipate.
These judgements were not to usher in the millennium reign of the Lord which is the final judgement.
In short you cannot compare it to the Lords day which is exclusive in its self.

 

[pottersclay]

I like to start by stating this.....if you dont believe in the rapture then you are not looking for it and unlike other teachers have said Ill explain it on the way up. I disagree with this because not all of the church will be taken.
The scriptures that jesus talks about one taken one left aludes to this.
With that being said the rapture is the full gospel message and not some folklore theory.
As i mentioned in my op a new title has been added to JESUS....bridegroom.
This is because a new thing has happened gentiles were added to Gods family (praise God) remember jesus was first sent to his own the jews. The prophets fortold of there rejection but by there rejection the promise God made to abraham was fulfilled. His children would be plentiful, of every nation and tongue. So no im not adding to the word but God is a promise keeper and is adding to the kingdom.

 

[DavidTree]

Genesis 18:23-33 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his house.


This is why I believe the rapture will take place.
Remember lot could go to another land because sodom was a city but where could you escape when the whole world is under judgement?

Also jesus talks about abrahams bosom a place where saints of the old testament were kept untill Jesus opened the doors of heaven for the faithful.

Jesus has many titles in the new testament. Redeemer, Lord, savior, son of man, son of david, son of God, ect .
Each title he had because of his ability to be the savior, Lord ect but the oddest one and frankly new as far as I know is bridegroom.....strange. only in the new did i find this.
But then since the church is a bride in waiting I guess that makes sense.
THe story of abraham is a story of a father seeking a bride for his only son and out of it comes the birth of a nation. Guess that fits.
But how does the bridegroom act? What does he do? How does he do it? When?

It is Good for you to believe the rapture will take place.
It is Good for you to see God's Deliverance from His Wrath in Genesis.
It is BEST for you to SEE exactly when this will occur for us = according to HIS Commandment, which will never be compromised.

For they themselves report what kind of welcome you gave us, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.
1 Thess 1:10

Every Blood washed Saint is commanded to wait for the LORD Jesus = His Second Coming.

The ORDER of Events that will take place prior to HIS Second Coming have been irreversably established by the FATHER no amount of false hope will change it.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1 Thess 4:13-18

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
2 Thess 2:1-8

Anyone who believes and teaches contrary to these Words of the Holy Spirit is deceived and believing in a false hope and doctrines of demons.

There is not one OT passage of Scripture that overrides what is written by the Holy Spirit in the NT.

i will donate $1,000 to a Christian Relief Fund/Organization for persecuted Believers IF you can override from Scripture 1 & 2 Thess and Matt ch24

 

[DavidTree]

Well to answer both your questions jesus compared sodom and noahs day of judgement more towards how the hearts of the people were and how severe the judgement. Also there was no antichrist to anticipate.
These judgements were not to usher in the millennium reign of the Lord which is the final judgement.
In short you cannot compare it to the Lords day which is exclusive in its self.

There absolutely were 'antichrists' in the days of Noah and Lot.
Noahs day had the Fallen Angel antichrists and their abomination offspring.

Believe the TRUTH = 1 John 2:18-19

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us."

 

[DavidTree]

I like to start by stating this.....if you dont believe in the rapture then you are not looking for it and unlike other teachers have said Ill explain it on the way up. I disagree with this because not all of the church will be taken.
The scriptures that jesus talks about one taken one left aludes to this.
With that being said the rapture is the full gospel message and not some folklore theory.
As i mentioned in my op a new title has been added to JESUS....bridegroom.
This is because a new thing has happened gentiles were added to Gods family (praise God) remember jesus was first sent to his own the jews. The prophets fortold of there rejection but by there rejection the promise God made to abraham was fulfilled. His children would be plentiful, of every nation and tongue. So no im not adding to the word but God is a promise keeper and is adding to the kingdom.

Evil folklore theory = pre-trib rapture theory

TRUTH = Matthew 25:1-13

But while they were on their way to buy it, the bridegroom arrived. Those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.

Later the other virgins arrived and said, ‘Lord, lord, open the door for us!’

But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I do not know you.’

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Those who are "left behind" never enter in to Glory and will suffer an eternity in separated from God.

i will donate $1,000 to 'Voice of the Martyrs' if you can show a single passage of Scripture where the LORD came a pre-trib raptured a select Group of Saints and then comes back for those 'left behind'.

You will change your mind and rejoice in the Truth of the Word if you are unable to find it
AND
everyone who has preached the lie of pre-trib rapture should donate $1,000 to Voice of the Martyrs
OR at minimum $100.

 

[p_rehbein]

But how does the bridegroom act? What does he do? How does he do it? When?

Regarding the rapture:

When God the Father commands jesus our Savior to......."go get My children"....

the last trump will sound, the Eastern sky will split, and Jesus will descend on clouds of whit with all the Saints that have gone before. The dead in Christ will rise first, then His Church will be caught up to meet Him in the clouds. He will take us to live with Him in His Kingdom forever!

The judgement will begin!
Time will be no more!
No second chances, no do overs, none of the junk some folks teach.....IT WILL BE OVER! Those who are His will appear before Him to receive their rewards according to their works/accomplishments for the Kingdom.

Those who are NOT His will face eternal judgement! That will be FOREVER!

 

[soberxp]

The bride and bridegroom produce life, Jesus is the key of life.

 

[pottersclay]

There absolutely were 'antichrists' in the days of Noah and Lot.
Noahs day had the Fallen Angel antichrists and their abomination offspring.

Believe the TRUTH = 1 John 2:18-19

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us."

We are talking about the anti-christ singular not plural.

 

[pottersclay]

It is Good for you to believe the rapture will take place.
It is Good for you to see God's Deliverance from His Wrath in Genesis.
It is BEST for you to SEE exactly when this will occur for us = according to HIS Commandment, which will never be compromised.

For they themselves report what kind of welcome you gave us, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.
1 Thess 1:10

Every Blood washed Saint is commanded to wait for the LORD Jesus = His Second Coming.

The ORDER of Events that will take place prior to HIS Second Coming have been irreversably established by the FATHER no amount of false hope will change it.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1 Thess 4:13-18

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
2 Thess 2:1-8

Anyone who believes and teaches contrary to these Words of the Holy Spirit is deceived and believing in a false hope and doctrines of demons.

There is not one OT passage of Scripture that overrides what is written by the Holy Spirit in the NT.

i will donate $1,000 to a Christian Relief Fund/Organization for persecuted Believers IF you can override from Scripture 1 & 2 Thess and Matt ch24

To be delivered from the wrath which is to come....before hand.
The second coming is the wrath of God. We are not appointed to wrath.
Please explain your view of the bridegroom title that has been given to JESUS. This i only found in the new testament.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Here's a question for you:

When judgment came upon Sodom and Gomorrah, was there an interval of 7 years or 3 1/2 years between the time that Lot fled and judgment came or did both occur on the same exact day?

We know that God gave warning to Abraham before the angels went to fetch Lot out of Sodom.

We are not told how much time passed between God telling Abraham and the time the angels came to Sodom at even (Gen 19:1). Was it the evening of the same day Abraham was warned?

We also see in Gen 19:27 that Abraham got up early in the morning to look toward Sodom. Was that the morning after Abraham had made intercession (Gen 18:23-31)?

Here's another question for you:

When global judgment came via a worldwide flood in the days of Noah, was there an interval of 7 years or 3 1/2 years between the time that Noah and his family entered the ark and judgment came or did both occur on the same exact day?

In Gen 7:4 we learn that God told Noah 7 days before the rain began.
.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When judgment came upon Sodom and Gomorrah, was there an interval of 7 years or 3 1/2 years between the time that Lot fled and judgment came or did both occur on the same exact day?

Actually nobody knows if there will be any interval after the Resurrection/Rapture and divine judgments on earth. For all we know they could start on the same day or the next day. So your questions really mean nothing. The interval is between the Rapture and the Second Coming. It could be seven years, or more or less. Again we do not know exactly.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is why I believe the rapture will take place.

There is a parallel between Lot, Noah, Enoch, and Methuselah being taken out of or away from divine judgments and the Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture.

 

[Live4Him3]

We know that God gave warning to Abraham before the angels went to fetch Lot out of Sodom.

We are not told how much time passed between God telling Abraham and the time the angels came to Sodom at even (Gen 19:1). Was it the evening of the same day Abraham was warned?

We also see in Gen 19:27 that Abraham got up early in the morning to look toward Sodom. Was that the morning after Abraham had made intercession (Gen 18:23-31)?





In Gen 7:4 we learn that God told Noah 7 days before the rain began.
.

None of this changes the fact that both deliverance and judgment came on the same exact day in both instances.

 

[Live4Him3]

Actually nobody knows if there will be any interval after the Resurrection/Rapture and divine judgments on earth. For all we know they could start on the same day or the next day. So your questions really mean nothing. The interval is between the Rapture and the Second Coming. It could be seven years, or more or less. Again we do not know exactly.

There is no interval between the rapture and the second coming as they are one and the same event.

 

[DavidTree]

We are talking about the anti-christ singular not plural.

It is always best to believe God at His Word. HE is talking to us about many 'antichrists' plural BEFORE the Antichrist.

Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. Matt ch24

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John ch2

Nimrod was 'the Antichrist' out of many before him.

"Cush begot Nimrod; he began to be a mighty one on the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord.” And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar."
Genesis 10:8

 

[DavidTree]

Actually nobody knows if there will be any interval after the Resurrection/Rapture and divine judgments on earth. For all we know they could start on the same day or the next day. So your questions really mean nothing. The interval is between the Rapture and the Second Coming. It could be seven years, or more or less. Again we do not know exactly.

You said: "The interval is between the Rapture and the Second Coming. It could be seven years, or more or less. Again we do not know exactly.

Please provide the Scripture that states this.

 

[DavidTree]

There is a parallel between Lot, Noah, Enoch, and Methuselah being taken out of or away from divine judgments and the Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture.

Show the pararlell from Scripture please = NT reference to these OT equating a "pre-tribulation rapture".

Remember Bible students, tribulation from the enemy and sin is not God's wrath.