What did the work of the Lord accomplish, if everyone still resurrects on "the last day"?

[kleronomos]

Under the Old Covenant, the law of sin and death, everyone 'died' having one sin or the other (break one, brake them all). Having sin meant descending instead of ascending. BUT, IF they had been perfect under the law, been found without sin when they took their last breathe, they would have ascended with no penalty to pay, no death.

Christ willingly died to bring in a New Covenant. Now by FAITH, and also whomsoever would, we could become a child of God, saved. By the precious blood of the Lamb slain, we could be washed clean, our sins forgiven and by CHRIST having paid the penalty, the ransom paid in full, the gift of Salvation received. Under the NEW COVENANT, we would be 'born again' of incorruptible seed before our flesh even died. We would die and be raised up with Christ (having received 'the gift of Salvation') , saved from the agony of death, no longer in fear of the bondage death because of sin, having been washed clean, made the righteousness of Christ.

What I was wondering about, WAS

what was the point, if none of the work He did CHANGED ANYTHING, and everyone still died, went to the grave, and 'slept/was dead' until the return of Christ, to rise up on the 'last day'?

It's not like we need to be saved from being in 'bondage' to death during the Millennium with Satan in the pit and sealed himself. The sting of death also gone, the only death left being the 2nd one in the LOF.

Maybe some one could explain EXACTLY WHICH DEATH we were saved from by coming to FAITH and BELIEF, WHILE WE YET LIVED


What was the point of 'paying the ransom' if it didn't exact a release of any sort any different than that what was already happening and no different than that of the unjust?

 

[Aerials1978]

Under the Old Covenant, the law of sin and death, everyone 'died' having one sin or the other (break one, brake them all). Having sin meant descending instead of ascending. BUT, IF they had been perfect under the law, been found without sin when they took their last breathe, they would have ascended with no penalty to pay, no death.

Christ willingly died to bring in a New Covenant. Now by FAITH, and also whomsoever would, we could become a child of God, saved. By the precious blood of the Lamb slain, we could be washed clean, our sins forgiven and by CHRIST having paid the penalty, the ransom paid in full, the gift of Salvation received. Under the NEW COVENANT, we would be 'born again' of incorruptible seed before our flesh even died. We would die and be raised up with Christ (having received 'the gift of Salvation') , saved from the agony of death, no longer in fear of the bondage death because of sin, having been washed clean, made the righteousness of Christ.

What I was wondering about, WAS

what was the point, if none of the work He did CHANGED ANYTHING, and everyone still died, went to the grave, and 'slept/was dead' until the return of Christ, to rise up on the 'last day'?

It's not like we need to be saved from being in 'bondage' to death during the Millennium with Satan in the pit and sealed himself. The sting of death also gone, the only death left being the 2nd one in the LOF.

Maybe some one could explain EXACTLY WHICH DEATH we were saved from by coming to FAITH and BELIEF, WHILE WE YET LIVED


What was the point of 'paying the ransom' if it didn't exact a release of any sort any different than that what was already happening and no different than that of the unjust?

There will be a resurrection of everyone in a physical body that will be eternal. What we experience is now is a renewing of the mind, a molding of the heart, approachability through prayer, seeing ourselves and our circumstances less and His kingdom more. The point is keep you from His wrath and glorify Him. Yes, we do die. That’s a consequence of being a sinful human.

 

[Gideon300]

Under the Old Covenant, the law of sin and death, everyone 'died' having one sin or the other (break one, brake them all). Having sin meant descending instead of ascending. BUT, IF they had been perfect under the law, been found without sin when they took their last breathe, they would have ascended with no penalty to pay, no death.

Christ willingly died to bring in a New Covenant. Now by FAITH, and also whomsoever would, we could become a child of God, saved. By the precious blood of the Lamb slain, we could be washed clean, our sins forgiven and by CHRIST having paid the penalty, the ransom paid in full, the gift of Salvation received. Under the NEW COVENANT, we would be 'born again' of incorruptible seed before our flesh even died. We would die and be raised up with Christ (having received 'the gift of Salvation') , saved from the agony of death, no longer in fear of the bondage death because of sin, having been washed clean, made the righteousness of Christ.

What I was wondering about, WAS

what was the point, if none of the work He did CHANGED ANYTHING, and everyone still died, went to the grave, and 'slept/was dead' until the return of Christ, to rise up on the 'last day'?

It's not like we need to be saved from being in 'bondage' to death during the Millennium with Satan in the pit and sealed himself. The sting of death also gone, the only death left being the 2nd one in the LOF.

Maybe some one could explain EXACTLY WHICH DEATH we were saved from by coming to FAITH and BELIEF, WHILE WE YET LIVED


What was the point of 'paying the ransom' if it didn't exact a release of any sort any different than that what was already happening and no different than that of the unjust?

Good question. In fact, the death and resurrection of Christ changed everything. Lord Jesus came that we might have life (John 10:10). This is not the natural life that is in the soul of man. It's is God's own, uncreated life. There were many mighty men and women of God in the OT. They were born again and anointed by the Holy Spirit. But they did not have the indwelling Spirit. This is what differentiates Christians from all others (John 1 5:12).

We need to remember that mankind died spiritually because of Adam's disobedience. Lord Jesus reversed that. He became "The Last Adam". Lord Jesus pleased God so completely that there was no need for another "Adam".

There is a reason why God did not give us new bodies when we were born again. We need also to experience the "salvation of the soul" (1 Peter 1:9, James 1:21). This is the progressive deliverance from the habit and memory of the worldly ways we learned before we were saved. It includes the renewing of the mind (Romans 12:2) but fundamentally, it is accepting God's will instead of self will. This is what it means to carry the cross daily and deny self.

 

[Magenta]

We would die and be raised up with Christ (having received 'the gift of Salvation') , saved from the agony of death, no longer in fear of the bondage death because of sin, having been washed clean, made the righteousness of Christ.

I wonder if you have this in the correct order. The wording is a little awkward?

Hebrews 2:15~

Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity,
so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that
is, the devil, 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear
of death. 16 For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham.

John 11:25-26

 

[Dino246]

What was the point of 'paying the ransom' if it didn't exact a release of any sort any different than that what was already happening and no different than that of the unjust?

Your "if" is negated by this verse:

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[p_rehbein]

what was the point, if none of the work He did CHANGED ANYTHING, and everyone still died, went to the grave, and 'slept/was dead' until the return of Christ, to rise up on the 'last day'?

Sad, truly sad......

the POINT is ETERNAL SALVATION OF OUR ETERNAL SOULS. Nothing to do with these earthly shells we now reside in. Had you studied Scripture you would know that "it is appointed for everyone to die once......"

The POINT was that with His conquest over death and the grave, and the precious blood He shed which (when washed by it) we are made worthy to be called sons of God, and Heirs to the Promise of eternal life where death will be no more.........

Have you ever seriously studied Scripture?

(have not viewed your PP yet, maybe I will find my answer there)

 

[p_rehbein]

Ok, hmm........possible clues here:


September 29
Gendermale
Marital Statusnot married
Spiritual StatusChristian
When saved as a child
Country Flag/NationalityFrance

Are you Catholic? If so, that would explain your OP

 

[kleronomos]

There will be a resurrection of everyone in a physical body that will be eternal. What we experience is now is a renewing of the mind, a molding of the heart, approachability through prayer, seeing ourselves and our circumstances less and His kingdom more. The point is keep you from His wrath and glorify Him. Yes, we do die. That’s a consequence of being a sinful human.

Thank you and you are speaking of the eternal spiritual body begun with the 'seed'/bare grain from this one correct? And I agree we are here to choose and be refined so that we aren't consumed when we are in His presence. I also agree the earthen vessel dies (Adam) but the spiritual is raised (Christ paid the penalty, washed clean of sin through the blood of the Lamb)

 

[kleronomos]

Good question. In fact, the death and resurrection of Christ changed everything. Lord Jesus came that we might have life (John 10:10). This is not the natural life that is in the soul of man. It's is God's own, uncreated life. There were many mighty men and women of God in the OT. They were born again and anointed by the Holy Spirit. But they did not have the indwelling Spirit.

Thank you though I am not quite following here, could you be more exact as to what takes place.

There is a reason why God did not give us new bodies when we were born again. We need also to experience the "salvation of the soul" (1 Peter 1:9, James 1:21). This is the progressive deliverance from the habit and memory of the worldly ways we learned before we were saved. It includes the renewing of the mind (Romans 12:2) but fundamentally, it is accepting God's will instead of self will. This is what it means to carry the cross daily and deny self.

How does that figure in with this?

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Peter 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Is it possible something UNSEEN took place and something unseen takes place at death also that falls more in line with?

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?



And I agree it GODS way or the fire way, LEARN IT NOW while it is gentle (also Gods way, when you think about it)

 

[kleronomos]

Your "if" is negated by this verse:

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Apology, I did not say this in a better way, I was trying to speak about the 'timing' of it all, differences between death under OLD AND NEW.

 

[kleronomos]

Sad, truly sad......

the POINT is ETERNAL SALVATION OF OUR ETERNAL SOULS. Nothing to do with these earthly shells we now reside in. Had you studied Scripture you would know that "it is appointed for everyone to die once......"

The POINT was that with His conquest over death and the grave, and the precious blood He shed which (when washed by it) we are made worthy to be called sons of God, and Heirs to the Promise of eternal life where death will be no more.........

Have you ever seriously studied Scripture?

(have not viewed your PP yet, maybe I will find my answer there)

I thought the context of the post as a whole would answer those kinds of questions, but I was obviously wrong, and for that,

I apologize.

What I am actually trying to ascertain is, IF WE DIE WITHOUT SIN, HOW CAN ANY PART OF US, (soul/spirit/spiritual body (anything besides the carcass on its way back to dust)) descend to await His return especially if we are have two bodies and He went to prepare a place for us to follow Him, NOT AWAIT HIS RETURN.


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.



On a different note, Are you aware those 'veiled' digs aren't veiled at all and their full force is felt by those you speak them to? Why the stabs "sad, truly sad and have you ever...? They worked, they made me feel bad and sad and made me get defensive and question myself when there really was no need and no provocation, for you to do so, so in return I reply with

Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.


a reminder to myself also.

 

[kleronomos]

Ok, hmm........possible clues here:


September 29
Gendermale
Marital Statusnot married
Spiritual StatusChristian
When saved as a child
Country Flag/NationalityFrance

Are you Catholic? If so, that would explain your OP

No, I am a Christian. How ever will my OP be explained now?

 

[kleronomos]

I wonder if you have this in the correct order. The wording is a little awkward?

Hebrews 2:15~

Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity,
so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that
is, the devil, 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear
of death. 16 For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham.

 

[Magenta]

?

 

[kleronomos]

I don't know where my reply went but it basically just said those were just bits and pieces and the purpose wasn't to be accurate right then as to the letter, but to the Spirit of the Truth of it.