You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.

[FreeGrace2]

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

The red and blue words in v.5 refer to the red and blue words in v.6.

Therefore, we KNOW that Jesus was referring to physical birth in v.5 by "born of water".

And peldom10 placed his little red X on my post.

I suppose he isn't able to explain WHY he disagrees with my color coded explanation of John 3:5,6 or he would have.

However, if Jesus was referring to "water baptism" in v.5 by "born of water", then v.6 has ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVANCE OR MEANING to everything that precedes in the context.

So, peldom10 can disagree with whatever he wants to, but if he can't explain why he disagrees, it's no more than just stamping his feet.

John 3:6 destroys the false claims about water baptism.

When Jesus spoke the words in John 3, there was NO church age. It was still the age of Israel. So Jesus couldn't have been referring to what the church does today.

Jesus' words REFUTES all the claims about water baptism since He wasn't even referring to water baptism.

I'm sure peldom10 will place his little red round X on this post as well.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And he sure enough did! Can't defend himself, can't explain himself, can't refute those he disagrees with.

"Can't" never did anything. Except place those little red round circles with an X in it on my posts.

He disagrees but seems unable to figure out why he does.

Anyone who reads John 3:5 and 6 together sees the relationship. They don't need it to be color coded.

But even when I color code it, he disagrees, yet can't explain why.

But then, if he did try to explain his disagreement, everyone would see him disagreeing with Jesus' very words.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm going to answer as if you're being honest in your explanation. (Because you repeatedly strike me as such)

As a person starts finding God.. (Start to learn about him, seek him, ask of him, even hear his voice). It seems most encounter church doctrines about this point (either before or during).

Each church has it's own doctrine about how to be "Saved" , which the young disciple heeds... and does... according to what they're being told because they are zealous to do whatever God wants.

Then the disciple is told they are "Saved" (and of course have the Holy Ghost).

Some, (apparently you are one of these) actually receive the Holy Ghost at a later date, which comes with the same evidence it did @ first outpouring on the day of Pentecost and the other recorded occurrences in the book of Acts.

Thats actually when people receive the Holy Ghost. But some of their friends, teachers and even pastors havent had this experience. So what's up with that?

It is NOT unbiblical for someone to believe in Jesus as being the messiah sent to die for THEIR sins, and even to get baptized, and YET still not have received the Holy Ghost until a later date. That's what happened with the group in Acts 8:1-17. It's normal. That's why God had that instance recorded in Acts 8. So people will know what can happen.

(But I'll have to finish this later as I need to drive home now)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

i AGREE with almost everything you said here and probably all of it depending on the viewpoint from Heaven above.

No one can be "born-again" by man-made church doctrine or water baptism = "that which is flesh is flesh" = this we agree.

ALL who have been "born-again" have had the "circumcision of the heart" by the Spirit of God = "that which is Spirit is spirit".
This occurs in the process of hearing and believing the Word = "these words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life."

So a True Blood Washed Believer can be Saved, by the circumcision of the heart and the sprinkling of the Blood of Christ that washes away sins. They truly have the Holy Spirit at this point and may even been Baptized in the Holy Spirit as well - God moves according to Faith in His word = as we hear and believe so we receive from the Father Above.

There are also True Blood Washed Believers who are saved, have the Holy Spirit Circumcision of the heart, but have never been Baptized in/by the Holy Spirit due to religion, ignorance of the Scripture, unbelief, fear and/or simply have no desire.
Which is usually the element of the 'fear of man' and/or human comfort with their religion.

i was fully Saved by the hearing and believing of the Word, repented of my sins and came under the Blood for washing away of my sins about a year BEFORE i was water baptized = "that which is Spirit is spirit".
i also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit BEFORE i was water baptized = "that which Spirit is spirit".

God moves according to His Will in our lives for "HE alone searches the heart to give to every man according to his ways."

 

[DavidTree]

And he sure enough did! Can't defend himself, can't explain himself, can't refute those he disagrees with.

"Can't" never did anything. Except place those little red round circles with an X in it on my posts.

He disagrees but seems unable to figure out why he does.

Anyone who reads John 3:5 and 6 together sees the relationship. They don't need it to be color coded.

But even when I color code it, he disagrees, yet can't explain why.

But then, if he did try to explain his disagreement, everyone would see him disagreeing with Jesus' very words.

LOAD him/her up with Red X's as well - he/she deserves it = "what a person sows that also shall they reap"

 

[KelbyofGod]

FreeGrace2 said:
No, I didn't "brush lightly over the verses". I pointed out that John's baptism is totally DIFFERENT than church age baptism.

You do not understand 1 Peter 3:21 at all.

You didn't even address my point that John's baptism is different than NT baptism. Or 1 Pet 3:21

1. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for remission of sins. (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3) <--that was before Jesus died on the cross, or even started preaching.
2. During Jesus' ministry, water baptism was continued without change. (John 3:22-23, John 4:1,2) So it continued through Jesus' ministry to be a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
3. After Jesus' earthly ministry, death on the cross, & rising from the dead, but before his ascension Jesus instructed them to continue baptizing, but a name was to be added to baptism... Baptism will begin to be done in HIS name, because all power (including that of remission of sins) was given to Him and abides in His name. <-- THAT is the change made since the baptism during John and Jesus' earthly ministries. But there was ZERO mention of a change to the purpose. And the addition of Jesus' name wasn't to begin until after they were baptized with the Holy Ghost ( Luke 24:47). They were commanded to tarry until they received that, not assume they'd already received it just because they had faith. So they tarried.
4. On the day of Pentecost, Once they received the baptism of the Holy Ghost as promised again in Acts 1:4&5,( with NO change since John established that promise as well) they went forth baptizing the baptism of repentance in the name of Jesus, for the remission of sins according to what was commanded and promised. (Acts 2:38) Additionally, those who were willing to submit to that word were likewise promised the same Holy Ghost that the 120-ish apostles and disciples had just been given (Acts 2:38-39) which included speaking in tongues because they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2:4) Both of these things continued throughout the recorded Acts.
5. Both Peter and Paul later wrote letters, explaining some of the details of what is actually happening when people get baptized. (Rom 6:4-5, Col. 2:11-12, 1 Peter 3:21, etc) These are letters of explanation written to those who had already "obtained like precious faith", teaching them what they've got. And yes, people who have yet to get baptized are welcome to learn from them and benefit from them too. But they don't CHANGE what water baptism accomplishes. They EXPLAIN in greater detail how and what water baptism accomplishes. Again, zero change in purpose. Otherwise all those believers would need to go get baptized again because it changed again.... and you'll notice that there is no record or mention of that.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

i AGREE with almost everything you said here and probably all of it depending on the viewpoint from Heaven above.

No one can be "born-again" by man-made church doctrine or water baptism = "that which is flesh is flesh" = this we agree.

ALL who have been "born-again" have had the "circumcision of the heart" by the Spirit of God = "that which is Spirit is spirit".
This occurs in the process of hearing and believing the Word = "these words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life."

So a True Blood Washed Believer can be Saved, by the circumcision of the heart and the sprinkling of the Blood of Christ that washes away sins. They truly have the Holy Spirit at this point and may even been Baptized in the Holy Spirit as well - God moves according to Faith in His word = as we hear and believe so we receive from the Father Above.

There are also True Blood Washed Believers who are saved, have the Holy Spirit Circumcision of the heart, but have never been Baptized in/by the Holy Spirit due to religion, ignorance of the Scripture, unbelief, fear and/or simply have no desire.
Which is usually the element of the 'fear of man' and/or human comfort with their religion.

i was fully Saved by the hearing and believing of the Word, repented of my sins and came under the Blood for washing away of my sins about a year BEFORE i was water baptized = "that which is Spirit is spirit".
i also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit BEFORE i was water baptized = "that which Spirit is spirit".

God moves according to His Will in our lives for "HE alone searches the heart to give to every man according to his ways."

?? What do you think being "baptized with the spirit" is?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

I'm usually writing in the middle of the night when most others (in my hemisphere) are asleep. I basically have to trust God to put his word in the hearts of people even if they have forgotten the original question(s). Just saying that because I was thinking it and there's no one here to stop me. Bwu-HA-ha-haaaa, lol)

Two things to say here:

1. Thank you Jesus for your word and willingness to teach.
2. For those reading this: Have you ever prayed until God spoke to you?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[DavidTree]

?? What do you think being "baptized with the spirit" is?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Exactly what it IS, as shown and spoken

1. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for remission of sins. (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3) <--that was before Jesus died on the cross, or even started preaching.
2. During Jesus' ministry, water baptism was continued without change. (John 3:22-23, John 4:1,2) So it continued through Jesus' ministry to be a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
3. After Jesus' earthly ministry, death on the cross, & rising from the dead, but before his ascension Jesus instructed them to continue baptizing, but a name was to be added to baptism... Baptism will begin to be done in HIS name, because all power (including that of remission of sins) was given to Him and abides in His name. <-- THAT is the change made since the baptism during John and Jesus' earthly ministries. But there was ZERO mention of a change to the purpose. And the addition of Jesus' name wasn't to begin until after they were baptized with the Holy Ghost ( Luke 24:47). They were commanded to tarry until they received that, not assume they'd already received it just because they had faith. So they tarried.
4. On the day of Pentecost, Once they received the baptism of the Holy Ghost as promised again in Acts 1:4&5,( with NO change since John established that promise as well) they went forth baptizing the baptism of repentance in the name of Jesus, for the remission of sins according to what was commanded and promised. (Acts 2:38) Additionally, those who were willing to submit to that word were likewise promised the same Holy Ghost that the 120-ish apostles and disciples had just been given (Acts 2:38-39) which included speaking in tongues because they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2:4) Both of these things continued throughout the recorded Acts.
5. Both Peter and Paul later wrote letters, explaining some of the details of what is actually happening when people get baptized. (Rom 6:4-5, Col. 2:11-12, 1 Peter 3:21, etc) These are letters of explanation written to those who had already "obtained like precious faith", teaching them what they've got. And yes, people who have yet to get baptized are welcome to learn from them and benefit from them too. But they don't CHANGE what water baptism accomplishes. They EXPLAIN in greater detail how and what water baptism accomplishes. Again, zero change in purpose. Otherwise all those believers would need to go get baptized again because it changed again.... and you'll notice that there is no record or mention of that.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Water baptism accomplishes only symbolic meaning - PERIOD

Your not SEEING why water baptism was implemented and its purpose.

It has a purpose because the LORD said = "to fulfill all righteousness".
Water baptism it is an outward act of faith responding to the inward Call of the Spirit.

water baptism can never wash away the stain of sin on a mans heart.

Thus we see Paul and Peter explaining it as such = symbolicly we have been buried with Christ to the old man(death to sin) and raised up in the New Man = Resurrected LIFE in CHRIST.

Religion places its trust on the outward/flesh, whereas God is Spirit and His Holy Spirit we are to follow.
Which is why the LORD told them to wait for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Now, if you can SEE this then your understanding will be illuminated with Truth of the Holy Spirit.

If, like others, you only see the outward 'water baptism' as the quintessential of Salvation then you missed the BOAT and are all wet.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm usually writing in the middle of the night when most others (in my hemisphere) are asleep. I basically have to trust God to put his word in the hearts of people even if they have forgotten the original question(s). Just saying that because I was thinking it and there's no one here to stop me. Bwu-HA-ha-haaaa, lol)

Two things to say here:

1. Thank you Jesus for your word and willingness to teach.
2. For those reading this: Have you ever prayed until God spoke to you?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

If, like others, you only see the outward 'water baptism' as the quintessential of Salvation then you missed the BOAT and are all wet.

Water is wet
it can never pay the Debt
so take a dunk
and go down under
it was the Lord's Blood
that covered our Blunder

So this makes me Wonder
why people splash and play
but fail to SEE
the HERO who saved the Day

It is written of Him in the Good Book
there you'll find Him
so come take a Look

He also allowed a water dunk
but the sin of man still stunk
Him knowing that water could not do
so HE went to the Cross
for me and you

Now you have the Truth
the same that saved Ruth
by His Word of Love
that came from the Dove

 

[FreeGrace2]

1. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for remission of sins. (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3) <--that was before Jesus died on the cross, or even started preaching.

1. Please explain what "repentance" means to you. Then I can reply.

 

[peldom10]

If, like others, you only see the outward 'water baptism' as the quintessential of Salvation then you missed the BOAT and are all wet.

Water is wet
it can never pay the Debt
so take a dunk
and go down under
it was the Lord's Blood
that covered our Blunder

So this makes me Wonder
why people splash and play
but fail to SEE
the HERO who saved the Day

It is written of Him in the Good Book
there you'll find Him
so come take a Look

He also allowed a water dunk
but the sin of man still stunk
Him knowing that water could not do
so HE went to the Cross
for me and you

Now you have the Truth
the same that saved Ruth
by His Word of Love
that came from the Dove

You need to study God's word;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Luke 3;33 KJV .... “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Mrark 1;4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[DavidTree]

You need to study God's word;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Luke 3;33 KJV .... “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Mrark 1;4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

i am telling you right now that you are a self inflicted ignorant person who comes on here thinking to have truth when all you have is religion.

 

[KelbyofGod]

1. Please explain what "repentance" means to you. Then I can reply.

Repentance means to turn away from a course of action. (As best I can shortly explain.)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:

1. Please explain what "repentance" means to you. Then I can reply.

Repentance means to turn away from a course of action. (As best I can shortly explain.)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

OK, thanks. But, before I respond, I need to ask one more question: by "turning away from a course of action", does that mean or indicate a change of lifestyle?

Thanks.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Exactly what it IS, as shown and spoken

That's basically a non-answer. (Meaning it sheds no light on the subject). It's not helpful.

In the book of Acts, God is kind enough to give play by play accounts of what happens as people are receiving the Holy Ghost. (What happens first. What happens next. How they knew when someone received the Holy Ghost. Etc.)

When someone says "I've received the Holy Ghost (or baptism with the Holy Ghost)" I ask them what happened so it can be compared to the biblical examples to see if it lines up.

It's easy to talk. My question is does God back it up... Or do they only have a gospel of words (borrowed words like the 7 sons of Sceva) without power?
(1 Cor. 4:20)

That's why I'm asking you "What happened that makes you think you were baptized with the Holy Ghost?". Is it the same thing that happened in the biblical examples?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

FreeGrace2 said:

1. Please explain what "repentance" means to you. Then I can reply.

OK, thanks. But, before I respond, I need to ask one more question: by "turning away from a course of action", does that mean or indicate a change of lifestyle?

Thanks.

I'll indulge you this honest answer as well, but I'd appreciate if you don't subvert the word through some imperfection in my answer. (That's what you were doing to Runningman a while back.)

The first part of repentance is a change of heart. The next part is a change of action.

John the Baptist (and Jesus) warned against taking the first step and then failing to follow through. (Matt. 3:7-10, Luke 3:7-9)

And repentance can be repented of.
(Before it produces results)

Even though a repentance has begun in person's heart, the person can decide "it's too hard" and/or abandon the repentance before it yields the fruit of a change in action (2 Cor. 7:8). OR the repentance can be abandoned in the middle of the action...with unpleasant results. (Jer. 34:15-20)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[DavidTree]

That's basically a non-answer. (Meaning it sheds no light on the subject). It's not helpful.

In the book of Acts, God is kind enough to give play by play accounts of what happens as people are receiving the Holy Ghost. (What happens first. What happens next. How they knew when someone received the Holy Ghost. Etc.)

When someone says "I've received the Holy Ghost (or baptism with the Holy Ghost)" I ask them what happened so it can be compared to the biblical examples to see if it lines up.

It's easy to talk. My question is does God back it up... Or do they only have a gospel of words (borrowed words like the 7 sons of Sceva) without power?
(1 Cor. 4:20)

That's why I'm asking you "What happened that makes you think you were baptized with the Holy Ghost?". Is it the same thing that happened in the biblical examples?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The 'it is what it IS' was referring to only water baptism.

My Holy Spirit Baptism is exactly the same as on the Day of Penetcost, with the only difference in timing(see Acts 10:44)
Just as i fully shared about my Salvation.

 

[KelbyofGod]

The 'it is what it IS' was referring to only water baptism.

Then why did you post it in answer to a question that was only about "being baptized with the spirit"? (see Post # 328)

My Holy Spirit Baptism is exactly the same as on the Day of Pentecost, with the only difference in timing(see Acts 10:44)
Just as i fully shared about my Salvation.

You said "exactly the same" with only difference in timing. With that as your explanation, you are saying :

1. You were in Jerusalem...
2. gathered with 120-ish disciples...
3. in an upper room...
4. There was a sound of a rushing mighty wind...
5. etc, etc.

Were you really in Jerusalem? Because "exactly the same" means "EXACTLY the same" (A.K.A identical in every detail)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[DavidTree]

Then why did you post it in answer to a question that was only about "being baptized with the spirit"? (see Post # 328)


You said "exactly the same" with only difference in timing. With that as your explanation, you are saying :

1. You were in Jerusalem...
2. gathered with 120-ish disciples...
3. in an upper room...
4. There was a sound of a rushing mighty wind...
5. etc, etc.

Were you really in Jerusalem? Because "exactly the same" means "EXACTLY the same" (A.K.A identical in every detail)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Yes, i was born-again in Jerusalem.
"the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all."

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'll indulge you this honest answer as well, but I'd appreciate if you don't subvert the word through some imperfection in my answer.

I correct when I come across errors. I don't "subvert" the Bible or other posters.

[QUOTE(]That's what you were doing to Runningman a while back.)[/QUOTE]
And since you have made this charge, would you kindly provide actual evidence to support your charge. Rm has a huge problem with understanding words, it seems. His whole doctrine of requiring water baptism to be in the resurrection is based on a verse that no commentator even understands. There are no historical records to explain the practice of proxy baptism.

Yet, Rm continues to think that a dead person can be proxy baptized so they will be in the resurrection. That is beyond nuts.

The first part of repentance is a change of heart. The next part is a change of action.
John the Baptist (and Jesus) warned against taking the first step and then failing to follow through. (Matt. 3:7-10, Luke 3:7-9)

Regarding this "change of heart", are you referring to regeneration, as in a "new heart", or simply changing the mind, which is the Greek meaning of the word??

And repentance can be repented of.
(Before it produces results)

How can "repentance" be "repented of"? Sounds confusing. Please explain.

Even though a repentance has begun in person's heart, the person can decide "it's too hard" and/or abandon the repentance before it yields the fruit of a change in action (2 Cor. 7:8). OR the repentance can be abandoned in the middle of the action...with unpleasant results. (Jer. 34:15-20)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

OK, got it. Thanks.

Looking forward to your answer re: "change of heart" meaning.