Notice...you teach folks, do these things and you are saved...when Paul taught...You will be saved.
Not the same thing...is it?
Love to talk more brother but I'm kinda busy right now.
But when I have time I will respond to your comments
Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
- Thread starter crossnote
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Notice...you teach folks, do these things and you are saved...when Paul taught...You will be saved.
Not the same thing...is it?
Love to talk more brother but I'm kinda busy right now.
But when I have time I will respond to your comments
What is your point? Seems you are trying to play word games, or tense games.
In Acts 16:31 the verb "believe" is aorist tense. The verb "will be saved" is future. It only means that believing precedes salvation.
What are you trying to make it mean?
Sounds good!
I have more also but do yours erase mine ? Or do we take them both and find out how they reconcile ?
this is one of my very favorites in all of scripture
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
I love that because it agrees with what the Old Testament wotnesses about christs word of eternal Life and I base everything I believe on that concept.
this is what I have learned from doing just what he says there from actually learning some of what he’s teaching I found out his word says this it teaches this when we hear it
“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
James 1:21-22 KJV
that’s a plain summary but it comes from hearing Jesus preaching so
In other words he said this
and taught this lesson
“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
Luke 6:46-49
if we hear what he’s saying like “ you have to repent or you will perish also like all sinners “
and hear him asking “ why do you say I’m your lord but you don’t do anything I said to do ? A man who hears my word and does it he is building his house on a rock and it will never fall.
Someone who calls me lord , hears my word , and doesn’t do it . He is building upon sand and his house will crumble and be destroyed
hearing that is what he’s talking about “ accepting it “ bekieving it letting that correct how we call him lord lord but yet we love our life for our own selves and by our own rules and ways rather than his who died for us
if we hear his word it does this
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32
and saves us. Because all those words were accepting is what we will stand before Jesus accountable for we have to start applying it to life like he teaches us gently when we accept the gospel
if we follow the word of Christ we’re going to find repentance and everlasting life. We don’t have to be perfect and sinless but we have To live according to what we understand our right and wrong and relent when we do wrong and turn back to the good
just hearing is enough until we start learning d then we start growing and having accountability and then we’re expected to start walking in faith
we can’t keep doing this
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:16, 19-21 KJV
we have to start following the gospel and what we learn and become like this
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
Galatians 5:22-26 KJV
we actually have to change our sinful ways as we learn about the righteousness of Christ and start following the ways and teachings we’re hearing
because Jesus also taught that we will be judged by our deeds one scriptire doesn’t erase the others to hear his word we have to let all the others in
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
of course you can quote a scripture that by itself seems to contradict this but that’s not what it’s for, this is meant to expand understanding of what he’s saying we have to hear , his word
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
Romans 2:5-9 KJV
the key is roller Jesus teach us and believe and follow the belief that’s what he’s saying by “ hear my word “
“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
John 6:45 KJV
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
“…Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
the truth is what teaches us what to repent of and what to do regarding salvstion and judgement so if we repent and have our sins remitted the bad deeds are gone when we face Jesus
But what I’m saying is when you start Learning from Jesus you start meet kng what Gods Will is and need to them start walking in that and can’t keep walking in what we learn is not Gods Will
we become accountable as we grow I. Understanding and faith just like life
there are babes and tbey have no responsibility “ just believe “ John 3:16 milk later they become toddlers and need John 5:24 hear my word and be saved , later tbey scone teens and start hearing about responsibility and working and keeping a clean room so they need “ why do you call
Me your lord ? But don’t do anything I say ? “
to grow the doctrine has to evolve like our understanding in life from a child to adult
we’re at different stages of this but everyone belongs to Jesus when we learn from the gospel we can’t go back to. NOt knowing and living in a if we’re ignorant of truth some are there others not yet others are somewhere more and further
Definitely not.
Our salvation is always a gift given to us by God.
By grace through faith we are saved and not from ourselves.
An incredible verse that testifies to how much God really loves us, So simple!
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
If you believe in Jesus then you are saved. If you believe in Jesus, then you will walk as He walked and your still saved. It does not get any simpler than that.
You are not saved because of your Christian works, your love, your endurance, or anything else for that matter.
We are saved by grace (freely given) through the instrument of faith in Jesus Christ and not of ourselves.
If your works are absent, then you did not believe in Jesus.
If love is absent, then you did not believe in Jesus.
Works perfect your faith.
Jesus taught an incredible verse too, (John 14:21) which is ignored by many, and believed by very few.
In it, Jesus gives a reason that God the Father loves us.
What is that reason?
.....It precedes salvation......We must first believe and then we shall be saved.
Many believe our good works come after we are saved..not before we are saved.
Look at the following verse...and you tell me, what comes first according to the Author of Salvation?
Works...or Salvation?
Jesus answered, “If a man loves Me, he will keep My words; and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him and make Our abode with him. He that loves Me not, keepeth not My sayings.
(John 14:23-24)
Chapter fourteen of John's Gospel is one powerful chapter. One very important chapter concerning the deity of the Christ.
John 14:21
The one who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him.
The commandments are identified below.
1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He remains in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
One must first believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ to be saved, and to receive the Holy Spirit.
Without the gift of the Holy Spirit, which is God's seal of ownership, one cannot love others.
It is a shame that the commandment that Christ gave us, is not mentioned more often.
The Bible encourages believers to remain in the faith. And, believers are commanded to "walk as He walked". iow, it isn't automatic.
There are no verses that say or teach this. James 2:14-26 doesn't teach this, even though apparently most of evangelicalism thinks so.
James' point about works was that it is impossible to demonstrate your faith without works. 2:18
[QUOTE{If love is absent, then you did not believe in Jesus.[/QUOTE]
Again, there are no verses that say or teach this. If love is absent, this means the believer is out of fellowship with the Lord, and subject to God's hand of discipline, per Heb 12:11.
Works demonstrates one's faith. James 2:18
Right!
We must discern which works. Unbelievers can be moral, and do good things too. The works that God accepts are works done in the power of the Holy Spirit, which is the reason God gives the Holy Spirit to every believer. To fulfill Eph 2:10. And believers can do good things from the flesh. iow, being out of fellowship (unconfessed sins-1 Jn 1:9) and while grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit. These works will be burned, according to 1 Cor 3:14-15.
“If you believe in Jesus then you are saved. If you believe in Jesus, then you will walk as He walked and your still saved. It does not get any simpler than that.”
yes it’s actually better to just hear what Jesus had to say about salvstion then there’s no opinion needed
for instance
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Luke 13:3 KJV
tha the lord telling believers you have to repent or you will perish
simple. Paul agrees
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:13
so now I understand I have to repent I can’t keep living like I used to or I’ll perish
it’s like that with every element your supposed to hear Jesus teach and learn from him at that point one can either follow him or reject him
to say I believe is one thing to live as if I believe what God said is faith
we can all invent our own salvation or believe the salvation in the gospel
works are taught from Jesus to Paul to Peter and so on we can say “ well works make faith perfect “ and sure without works faith is dead is the other side of that
the works tell the truth if we keep living like this we’re living a lie
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
We can’t keep Living in sin and expect to inherit eternal life in the kingdom
if we continue in the gospel well
Inherit the kingdom
your right it’s simple hear and believe what Jesus said about salvation
Babes are here
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
John 3:16 KJV
And that’s a great place to be but when a baby grows up into an adult they can’t keep drinking the bottle of milk they can’t keep getting thier diaper changed at 45 eventually babes grow up and start understanding reality
Gotta repent and believe the thing Jesus taught us to believe it’s truly simple but doesn’t work if you cut out what he teaches bout salvation
no Matter what we think every Christian has this date with Jesus
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
of course we don’t want to do it d today’s preachers explain it’s not for you but every one of us has that same appointment that’s why our works matter more so now than they did before we believed
We can live as if what we do doesn’t apply and answer for that kind of life or can live as if we’re going to have to answer for our words and deeds one day and answer for that kind of life
salvstion is up to the person receiving the gospel the only path is what Jesus laid out before us our works are what we’re going to be judged eternally by as you plainly read in all those scriptures
d actually if someone loves Jesus they will keep his words if they don’t love Jesus They won’t they’ll reject them and blaze another path and that’s actually Gods word
“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
John 14:23-24 KJV
In other words if you say I believe in Jesus you have to also accept what he’s saying out salvstion like “ repent or you will perish “ “ why do you call
Me lord lord and don’t do what I say? “ “ whosoever chooses to do my doctrine will find out whether it is from God or man “
to be saved we have to accept the word of Christ and yes he explains what we need to do and what we can’t keep doing also and it all fully applies we can be saved just how Jesus said and no other way
We agree.
Repent means to turn to Jesus Christ.
Everyone sins and anyone who denies they sin, is is a liar.
1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Your claiming that only the fully repentant sinner will be saved.
Yet Paul proclaims that we are saved by grace through faith.
Your claiming that Paul is saying, Not saved by grace through faith.
Your claim is faith plus works and repentance from sin.
Someone has dropped the ball?
It's interesting how God made Salvation a mystery for us, a mystery only revealed.... to those who follow his Holy Spirit.
Mystery?...some may say...
Yes..if it wasn't a mystery, there would only be one book being sold in the Bible book stores.
Why do we need so many books,..for something Jesus made so simple?
Lets see...Repent, Repent and be Baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Repent....What does it actually mean?
Repent...simply means to stop following the way of Sin, and follow the way of Christ.
In other words..though we belong to Sin, Stop doing what sin wants you to do, and do what Christ wants you to do. This is exactly what Pauls analogy is about in (Romans 7:1-3). I'll explain...
......Know ye not, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), how the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman who hath a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of the husband. So then, if while her husband liveth she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Jesus taught...Everyone who sins..is a servant of sin. So the Husband in Pauls analogy...is the master of those who sin.... and Those who are the servants of sin...are the wife.
What makes the wife an Adulteress?
To be an Adulteress, one needs to commit adultery...Right?
Now when you do what is righteous,....what Jesus wants you to do, this is adultery in the analogy.
Why is it adultery?
Until you die to sin, sin is your master, so since you do not belong to Jesus, acts of righteousness (Good Works) become adultery in Pauls analogy.
Now since it's this adultery.... which causes the husband to die, and this adultery....is required to bring about the death of the husband...can you see how good works plays a role in our salvation?
For without this death..Jesus can not be our husband.
Mystery?...some may say...
Yes..if it wasn't a mystery, there would only be one book being sold in the Bible book stores.
Why do we need so many books,..for something Jesus made so simple?
Lets see...Repent, Repent and be Baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Repent....What does it actually mean?
Repent...simply means to stop following the way of Sin, and follow the way of Christ.
In other words..though we belong to Sin, Stop doing what sin wants you to do, and do what Christ wants you to do. This is exactly what Pauls analogy is about in (Romans 7:1-3). I'll explain...
......Know ye not, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), how the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman who hath a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of the husband. So then, if while her husband liveth she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Jesus taught...Everyone who sins..is a servant of sin. So the Husband in Pauls analogy...is the master of those who sin.... and Those who are the servants of sin...are the wife.
What makes the wife an Adulteress?
To be an Adulteress, one needs to commit adultery...Right?
Now when you do what is righteous,....what Jesus wants you to do, this is adultery in the analogy.
Why is it adultery?
Until you die to sin, sin is your master, so since you do not belong to Jesus, acts of righteousness (Good Works) become adultery in Pauls analogy.
Now since it's this adultery.... which causes the husband to die, and this adultery....is required to bring about the death of the husband...can you see how good works plays a role in our salvation?
For without this death..Jesus can not be our husband.
The emoticons are above the text box
Somewhere around the middle of the icons. Click the smilie face
It says "Smiles" when you hover over it
I have a question for you.
Is it better to learn to love others or is it better to aim at sinless perfection?
PS
Loving others leads to sinless perfection, by changing the heart.
Yes, there are verses that teach that faith without works is a dead faith.
James 2:26
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
You have been corrected.
Works are critical to the Christian faith but works cannot save us. That gift of salvation is delivered to us through Christ alone and by grace alone. I do not understand why you cannot see that our salvation is a free gift?[QUOTE{If love is absent, then you did not believe in Jesus. Again, there are no verses that say or teach this. If love is absent, this means the believer is out of fellowship with the Lord, and subject to God's hand of discipline, per Heb 12:11.[/Quote]
John 14:21
The one who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him.
The verse above seems to indicate that the person that obeys the commandments that Jesus gave. Is therefore, the one who loves Jesus. Consequently that person receives the revelation of the Christ.
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will follow My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our dwelling with him.
Once again, the same pattern is observed. If that love of Jesus is not evident in a believers life, or for that matter the love of others. Then it would be safe to assume that the Holy Spirit is absent in that person's life. The indwelling of the Son is absent.
Love demonstrates one's faith.
God is love!
It is true, if love is absent then God is absent.
Anyone can help an old lady across the street and everyone can do that, a good work.
It is near impossible for a non Christian to love anyone but themselves.
I strongly disagree here. Salvation is clearly communicated in the Bible. No mystery at all.
Paul's answer to the jailer's question leaves no room for confusion, doubt, etc.
Jailer: what MUST I DO to be saved?
Paul: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
No one is saved by "following the Holy Spirit". The Bible never says anything like that.