I'm forgiven and justified (Romans 8); in that sense I'm saved now. But salvation isn't complete until the very end. It's not based on works but in persevering in the faith.
Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?
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I'm forgiven and justified (Romans 8); in that sense I'm saved now. But salvation isn't complete until the very end. It's not based on works but in persevering in the faith.
I say those are either false converts or flat out charlatans. Read the parable of the four soils. The promise isn’t taken away due to our own actions because we did nothing to gain it.
Mat 13:
1That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
...
18“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
1That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
...
18“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Acts 8:
Simon the Sorcerer
9Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” 11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. 12But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
Simon the Sorcerer
9Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” 11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. 12But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
Thankfully Jesus will leave 99 sheep and search for the one sheep that is lost, and will continue to search until He finds it.
Sorry, but the parable of the four soils clearly indicates that salvation/faith can be taken away after receiving God's Word into one's heart. In fact, it was both the second the third soil, in which God's word was heard and taken to heart, yet both lost later on.
Matthew 13
20The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and receives it at once with joy.
21But he has no root and lasts only for a time. When some tribulation or persecution comes because of the word, he immediately falls away.
22The seed sown among thorns is the one who hears the word, but then worldly anxiety and the lure of riches choke the word and it bears no fruit.
So, from the parable of the 4 soils, it is possible to receive God's Word and later discard it. There is nothing in the parable of the 4 soils that supports OSAS.
Yes indeed, but He can't leave the 99 searching indefinitely for one that doesn't even want to be found. Why would He waste his time doing that?
Why call it a waste of time? God knows who are His. He gave His life that we may be reconciled to Him.
None of us wanted to be found , until God drew us , and Jesus came to all of those that the Father gave Him...
He loses none , not even one...
What you share makes perfect sense however Jesus will not lose any sheep that belong to Him. If such a lost sheep was saved then that sheep will always be saved due to the finished work of Jesus.
The problem for those that do not believe in OSAS, is a misunderstanding of Positional Sanctification and Conditional Sanctification.
In the simplest terms - What God has Justified (Positional Sanctification), cannot be superseded or destroyed by ones "Condition". Do not go crazy with this. A true believer, has no desire to live like "hell". Therefore, if someone is living in "Sin", they are not true believers but mere religionist.
There really should be NO debate over this subject. A simple read of the Scriptures proves OSAS. Look at what Christ said here:
John_6:37 All that which the Father gives to me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
This clear and concise statement - Father gives to me and I will not cast out - requires no particular conditional requirement. This says God "will do" it.
Any passages of Scripture, that seem to say otherwise, must be "harmonized with this one clear statement in John 6:37. God is not confused nor is He the author of confusion. Likewise, the Word of God does not establish a thing in one place and then erase a thing in another place.
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I don't believe in the "Christian Left" lol... There's only religion, politics..., then the TRUE WORD OF GOD!
Let me ask you something: Do you believe in free will? When we believe in Christ as Lord and Savior, do we do that of our own free will or do you believe in irresistible grace? Irresistible grace is the only logical conclusion that comes from OSAS. Otherwise you have to say we exercise free will when we first believe but after that we lose our free will.
I have read that parable many times. What do you make of Matthew 15:13
He answered, "Every plant that my Heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.
Clearly the ones God chose will not be unrooted and cast into the fire. How do you reconcile that with your notion of losing salvation? If you didn’t receive it based on your accord, how can you lose it based on the same?
No. The will of man is constrained by too many factors to be considered free.
There is self will, and there is God's will. Man's will can obviously
operate in opposition to God's will, but then God gives us a new heart.
Deuteronomy 30:6
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