Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





lie from the pit





The absurd claims contained in your erroneous dogma are a result of you ripping verses from the context within which they sit.

Read Romans 4:25 in the context in which the Author of Scripture placed it:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


As you can see, brightfame52, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind and God imputes righteousness to those who believe.
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The all Christ died for, all of them are evidenced to have been Justified. So consequently, if one isnt Justified, its impossible for Christ to have died for them.

 

[brightfame52]

Not according to Scripture


Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith [the believer's faith] is counted for righteousness.



vs 3 – Abraham believed. The verse does not say what you claim.

vs 4 – the faith of the one believing is counted for righteousness.


Quit making stuff up. Just read Scripture as written.
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Yes again believers are those who Christ Justified by His death/blood. Rom 5:9 If one isnt Justified, Christ didnt shed His Blood for them.

 

[VARob]

Thats not true.

It is true. God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willig that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).

 

[brightfame52]

Then quit accusing the believer of "flat out" denying "that one is justified by Christ" when the believer states what is written in God's Word.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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Again, we are given Faith if Christ has already Justified us by His Blood. Rom 5:9

 

[brightfame52]

That Christ did die for those who reject Him reveals His great love for all.

And those who reject Him will understand their complete and utter foolishness when they find themselves cast into outer darkness.
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Again Christ could not have possible died for anyone who dies in their sins. Because when Christ for anyone, it put away their sins. Heb 9:26


For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

 

[Magenta]

Deuteronomy 30:6

 

[brightfame52]

Excerpt from "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.​

​

https://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html​

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Nobody Christ died for need to worry about any unpardoned sin, for Christs Blood put away all their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, under your dogma if the "all men" of Rom 5:18 refers only to "all the elect", then only the "elect" were under condemnation.
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All men in Rom 5:18 means all the elect of mankind from among the jews and Gentiles also. Thats basic bible !

 

[Magenta]

Ezekiel 36:25-26

 

[brightfame52]

nope.

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechó = restrain, hinder] the truth in unrighteousness;


The promise is that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation.

Those who believe receive the salvation promised.

Those who do not believe because they restrain the truth in unrighteousness receive the consequence of their having restrained the truth ... i.e. they are under God's wrath.





Of course you and Gill are in complete agreement:

John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology.​

​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gill_(theologian)​

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Yes the promise is the Just shall live by Faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Interesting ... when someone reads God's Word exactly as written, he/she is "thinking with the natural mind" (according to you).

And when someone adds concepts not included in Scripture ("world of the Elect" or "men and women from every nation"), that is not "thinking with the natural mind" (according to you).
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Again, your thinking about the word world conforms to a natural understanding and not biblical.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

it is not faith that saves. It is the OBJECT of faith Who saves ... the on Him that justifieth the ungodly is Who saves. Him that justifieth the ungodly imputes righteousness on those who believe when they believe ... not before they believe.
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Yes you have denied it. You believe people Christ shed His blood for shall yet die in their sins, correct ?

 

[brightfame52]

Faith also believes Romans 5:1 ...

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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Once again Faith believes in Justification by Christs blood, which you deny !

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus was at the temple during the feast of dedication. Some folks came to Him and asked Him if he was Messiah:

John 10:

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me


vs 24 – they asked Him this question, not because they were interested in Him as Messiah. They asked Him so that they could accuse Him to the Roman governor.

vs 25 – Jesus responded to them concerning His works ... the works He did were sufficient to convince ... and they still did not believe.

vs 26 – those who saw the works of Jesus and believed and followed Him were instructed by Him and believed.

vs 27 – my sheep hear my voice ... and follow me. Jesus did not say the unbelievers did not hear. In fact in vs 25, Jesus said He told them, they heard, and they did not believe. In other words, they rejected the truth He spoke.


From Adam Clarke Commentary (bold mine):

My sheep hear my voice - But ye will not hear: - my sheep follow me; but ye will neither follow nor acknowledge me. Any person who reads without prejudice may easily see, that our Lord does not at all insinuate that these persons could not believe, because God had made it impossible to them; but simply because they did not hear and follow Christ, which the whole of our blessed Lord's discourse proves that they might have done. The sheep of Christ are not those who are included in any eternal decree, to the exclusion of others from the yearnings of the bowels of eternal mercy; but they are those who hear, believe in, follow, and obey the Savior of the world.​

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The reason why men dont believe in Christ to the saving of their soul, is because they were never Christs Sheep that He died for. Jn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[brightfame52]

Now you're just making stuff up. Why don't you just believe what is written? Instead of the mental gymnastics you go through to support your erroneous dogma, just believe what God tells us ...

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

Again Faith is the fruit of having been Justified, not the cause of Justification. Christs Blood is the cause Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[brightfame52]

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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again all for whom Christ died, receive Justification of life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[brightfame52]

Read the verse again, brightfame52:

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

If, as you claim, the "all men" in Rom 5:18 refers only to the "elect", then only the "elect" were under judgment to condemnation.





Read the verse, brightfame52:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

The verse does not say a person sinned before they were born.

The verse says all men die because they sin.

Rom 5:12 corroborates what is written in Rom 3:23 (For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God).
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Gods elect are Justified before God before they have any being, since Christ as their surety head hath put away their sins before they have a being.

 

[brightfame52]

It is true. God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willig that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).

No its not true.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification of Life for who ? cont

Now here Paul is teaching by Divine Inspiration how and when sin entered into the world , and by that states Death passed upon all men Rom 5:12 ! Thats because, before they had any being, in him or in his loins all his seed had with him sinned even before they had being or existence !

Now this same biblical principle is taught when the writer of Hebrews stated that Levi paid tithes in Abraham because he was yet in his loins Heb 7:9-10

9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Many don't know it but Christ is the Everlasting Father of His Seed Isa 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Now the words payed tithes in Vs 9 is in the indicative mood and perfect tense, The indicative mood means:

a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective​

And so those in Adam sinned in him when he sinned and were constituted sinners, before they had a physical being or existence, and before they acted sin from their own sin nature, because of God's Sovereign prerogative of Imputation !

So in Christ, the Elect Seed in Him, those chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, were constituted Righteous or received Justification of Life, by His Obedience or by His Righteousness of One Rom 5:18, it also being imputed to them by God's Sovereign prerogative before they had any being or existence, and before they did any act of obedience, before they believed !

So to reject that those Christ died for have received Justification of Life before they existed or believed, you must reject the entire biblical testimony of Rom 5 ! 11

 

[Sipsey]

Justification of Life for who ? cont

Now here Paul is teaching by Divine Inspiration how and when sin entered into the world , and by that states Death passed upon all men Rom 5:12 ! Thats because, before they had any being, in him or in his loins all his seed had with him sinned even before they had being or existence !

Now this same biblical principle is taught when the writer of Hebrews stated that Levi paid tithes in Abraham because he was yet in his loins Heb 7:9-10

9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Many don't know it but Christ is the Everlasting Father of His Seed Isa 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Now the words payed tithes in Vs 9 is in the indicative mood and perfect tense, The indicative mood means:

a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective​

And so those in Adam sinned in him when he sinned and were constituted sinners, before they had a physical being or existence, and before they acted sin from their own sin nature, because of God's Sovereign prerogative of Imputation !

So in Christ, the Elect Seed in Him, those chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, were constituted Righteous or received Justification of Life, by His Obedience or by His Righteousness of One Rom 5:18, it also being imputed to them by God's Sovereign prerogative before they had any being or existence, and before they did any act of obedience, before they believed !

So to reject that those Christ died for have received Justification of Life before they existed or believed, you must reject the entire biblical testimony of Rom 5 ! 11

And you have greatly misunderstood predestination.