Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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Goliath said:
They are written on our hearts, and through continued persistence...in keeping these commandments, your heart will be changed. Which is what Paul taught in (Romans 2:7)
....To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Exactly right!!
In fact, Paul used v.7 to show that only perfect people would earn eternal life, but, as you noted, from ch 1-3, he proves that there is no one who is perfect. And Rom 3:20 desstroys any idea that anyone can earn eternal life.
They are written on our hearts, and through continued persistence...in keeping these commandments, your heart will be changed. Which is what Paul taught in (Romans 2:7)
....To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Exactly right!!
In fact, Paul used v.7 to show that only perfect people would earn eternal life, but, as you noted, from ch 1-3, he proves that there is no one who is perfect. And Rom 3:20 desstroys any idea that anyone can earn eternal life.
I posted what John taught and you don't believe him, even though he says what I say.
I posted what Jesus taught and you don't even believe Him, even though he says what I say.
So to be honest, do you really think I expected you all to believe anything I say?
This is what I posted:
"Exactly right!!
In fact, Paul used v.7 to show that only perfect people would earn eternal life, but, as you noted, from ch 1-3, he proves that there is no one who is perfect. And Rom 3:20 desstroys any idea that anyone can earn eternal life."
I do believe what John and Jesus taught.
"Exactly right!!
In fact, Paul used v.7 to show that only perfect people would earn eternal life, but, as you noted, from ch 1-3, he proves that there is no one who is perfect. And Rom 3:20 desstroys any idea that anyone can earn eternal life."
I do believe what John and Jesus taught.
“The simple fact is...,many folks they have made Paul the Author of their Salvation. They completely bypass the Gospel of Jesus Christ and head straight for Paul's epistles.”
amen that’s exactly what has happened and was always going to happen
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2 KJV
amen to the rest there paulmis acceptable until we really hear his words then we realize he’s preaching to same gospel teaching the same things for the same purpose repentance , eternal judgment according to works , doing the things we’re actually taught to do living out the faith we claim we’re saved by
sort of if you wuote this from Paul is great for them
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
That upholds thier doctrine but this is completely unacceptable within thier doctrine in the same epistles
“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:3-7 KJV
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
it’s like if Paul’s teaching something real it’s not acceptable but if he seems to be saying “ grave alone don’t do anything “ that’s acceptable and is the right understanding yet to say “ saved by grace through faith “ is a summary and lacks any actual understanding but summarized the source of salvation
of faith means never having to do what God said it’s acceptable tonthe hyper grace idea but if faith without works is dead and we need to actually do what we believe it’s no longer grace in the twisted ideology
They accept only the basic milk and the nest and potatoes that makes one strong goes out the window with the bath water
sad to see how much false doctrine has led the church astray
amen that’s exactly what has happened and was always going to happen
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2 KJV
amen to the rest there paulmis acceptable until we really hear his words then we realize he’s preaching to same gospel teaching the same things for the same purpose repentance , eternal judgment according to works , doing the things we’re actually taught to do living out the faith we claim we’re saved by
sort of if you wuote this from Paul is great for them
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
That upholds thier doctrine but this is completely unacceptable within thier doctrine in the same epistles
“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
Ephesians 5:3-7 KJV
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
it’s like if Paul’s teaching something real it’s not acceptable but if he seems to be saying “ grave alone don’t do anything “ that’s acceptable and is the right understanding yet to say “ saved by grace through faith “ is a summary and lacks any actual understanding but summarized the source of salvation
of faith means never having to do what God said it’s acceptable tonthe hyper grace idea but if faith without works is dead and we need to actually do what we believe it’s no longer grace in the twisted ideology
They accept only the basic milk and the nest and potatoes that makes one strong goes out the window with the bath water
sad to see how much false doctrine has led the church astray
consider is what your thinking agrees to what’s written and spoken by the lord
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
what they did determines the per destination
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
Romans 2:5-10 KJV
what they have done is what determines eternal Life or indignation and wrath upon those soul
there’s no judgement other than by our deeds that’s what we have to answer for what we do and say our works
“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
but the righteous into life eternal.”
Matthew 25:34-36, 40-43, 45-46 KJV
Again it’s what’s they did that determines thier place our works don’t “save us “ when we come to Christ our works are what we will be judged eternally upon how we respond to the gospel will determine our end
our works are most important To us after we first believe
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
what they did determines the per destination
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
Romans 2:5-10 KJV
what they have done is what determines eternal Life or indignation and wrath upon those soul
there’s no judgement other than by our deeds that’s what we have to answer for what we do and say our works
“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
but the righteous into life eternal.”
Matthew 25:34-36, 40-43, 45-46 KJV
Again it’s what’s they did that determines thier place our works don’t “save us “ when we come to Christ our works are what we will be judged eternally upon how we respond to the gospel will determine our end
our works are most important To us after we first believe
As if the epistles "completely bypass the Gospel of Jesus Christ??? Are you kidding??!! Have you never read his epistles? His sole focus is on the Savior.
So now you are insinuating that Paul didn't teach sound doctrine.
Who wrote the epistle to Timothy, pray tell?
Are you aware of what else Peter wrote? Probably not, so I'll help out here.
2 Peter 3-
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
So don't trash Paul and then quote from another author of Scripture who complimented Paul.
So now you are insinuating that Paul didn't teach sound doctrine.
Who wrote the epistle to Timothy, pray tell?
Are you aware of what else Peter wrote? Probably not, so I'll help out here.
2 Peter 3-
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
So don't trash Paul and then quote from another author of Scripture who complimented Paul.
You don't have to worry about what I have considered. You should worry about what you consider.
OK, so you are pitting Jesus against His own words now, eh? The NT if full of verses that teach that salvation is by believing in Christ, and "not of works". So when Jesus referred to "they that have done good", He was obviously referring to those who trusted in His work on the cross for their salvation. You need to back up to v.24 for some desperately needed context:
v.24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
Did you see the big thick words? Those who believe POSSESS (has) eternal life. No mention of doing works.
Or what else Jesus said, like, to Martha:
John 11-
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
Where do you see anything about works here?
OK, so you are pitting Jesus against His own words now, eh? The NT if full of verses that teach that salvation is by believing in Christ, and "not of works". So when Jesus referred to "they that have done good", He was obviously referring to those who trusted in His work on the cross for their salvation. You need to back up to v.24 for some desperately needed context:
v.24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
Did you see the big thick words? Those who believe POSSESS (has) eternal life. No mention of doing works.
Or what else Jesus said, like, to Martha:
John 11-
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
Where do you see anything about works here?
I have never said a negative thing about Paul to be clear. But false teachers who twist pauls epistles to what they aren’t
and this was a quote from the person I was speaking with sonyojkl
Have to complain To them for this one
“The simple fact is...,many folks they have made Paul the Author of their Salvation. They completely bypass the Gospel of Jesus Christ and head straight for Paul's epistles.”
I was relying to that myself you should read more carefully whos saying what
and this was a quote from the person I was speaking with sonyojkl
Have to complain To them for this one
“The simple fact is...,many folks they have made Paul the Author of their Salvation. They completely bypass the Gospel of Jesus Christ and head straight for Paul's epistles.”
I was relying to that myself you should read more carefully whos saying what
I recommend that YOU "should read more carefully". Your paragraph above is very clearly insinuating that Paul's epistles "completely bypass the Gospel of Jesus Christ".
Have you ever tried reading what you post BEFORE you actually post it? I mean, reading it out loud and listening to what you have written?
Have you ever tried reading what you post BEFORE you actually post it? I mean, reading it out loud and listening to what you have written?
I see quoting scripture sets you off into a circular spin lol to avoid it all that clearly says what it says
so I will actually not worry about you like you request here and ignore your posts so I don’t forget and comment again to you
it will save my time kgoing in circles, it’s why I rarely interact with you to begin with but I agree with you we all have to answer for our own words and deeds our own self what we each do and say
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:5
most of My quotes to you that set you off are Paul’s words 🤪
so I will actually not worry about you like you request here and ignore your posts so I don’t forget and comment again to you
it will save my time kgoing in circles, it’s why I rarely interact with you to begin with but I agree with you we all have to answer for our own words and deeds our own self what we each do and say
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:5
most of My quotes to you that set you off are Paul’s words 🤪
I quoted the post I was replying to lol yes you should carefully read what your trying to argue with though is
My point find out the conversation d. Ot tske comments in a vacuum that aren’t addressed to you but I’m gonna move on and not go in the “grace erase” circle it’s always a waste of time when some e ignores scriptures and just wants to argue
peace to ya
My point find out the conversation d. Ot tske comments in a vacuum that aren’t addressed to you but I’m gonna move on and not go in the “grace erase” circle it’s always a waste of time when some e ignores scriptures and just wants to argue
peace to ya
In such a case, you can quote the confusing/ambiguous bit and then put this emoticon as your response:
That gets the point across
Or even this one:
That gets the point across
Or even this one:
Does the "scratchy-head guy" (Unsure) show up only when choosing a portion of the quoted text/post - because I don't see it as an option... j/s.
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That was a very good reply.
Chapter two and chapter three of the letter to the Romans are amongst the most abused chapters in the scripture. It is remarkable that so many quotations are cherry picked from those two chapters. To support a number of dubious interpretations of the scripture.
Chapter two and chapter three of the letter to the Romans are amongst the most abused chapters in the scripture. It is remarkable that so many quotations are cherry picked from those two chapters. To support a number of dubious interpretations of the scripture.
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Not sure if John and Paul would agree with you.
1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
I have more if you want them.
1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
I have more if you want them.