Fulling expecting this to be a short thread !

[Beckie]

Joh_11:35 Jesus wept... Curious as to others thoughts on why Jesus wept. What are your thoughts , does the 'why' even matter to you? I dont have a 'revelation' on this, not building a doctrine or theology. Simply asking for your views. Over the years i have heard different theories, as most of us have. Did those sermons or teachings give you any insight?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I would say that raising Lazarus from the dead is Christ's way of showing His Power regarding not just the life of Lazarus, but the life of Christ Himself. Jesus is about to be nailed to a cross and die as the Passover is just around the corner (as noted in the same chapter of 11 that you're quoting from). In this chapter, Jesus talks about how those who believe in Him will never die. Jesus uses the life and death of Lazarus to proclaim His Gospel Plan.

Among the standard explanations for why Jesus wept, I would add that it is [possible] that Jesus is crying because He is aware of the torture and nailing to the cross that He is about to endure . . . that the "time has now come", as we read in the next chapter of 12:

John 12:7, 23 NLT - 7 "Jesus replied, "Leave her alone. She did this in preparation for my burial." ... 23 "Jesus replied, "Now the time has come for the Son of Man to enter into his glory."

If Jesus wept because of His fear of what was to come within just hours, Luke 22:42-44 might support this idea:
-
Luke 22:42-44 NLT - "Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine." Then an angel from heaven appeared and strengthened him. He prayed more fervently, and he was in such agony of spirit that his sweat fell to the ground like great drops of blood."

This is just an idea and possibility . . . nothing more.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I believe Jesus wept because He loved Lazarus and his sisters, and wanted to show us such expressions of love and sorrow are fully appropriate at funerals etc. The Lord was proving He was God by raising a man of whom it was said "by this time he stinketh", something I believe only God can do. But at the same time, Christ was showing He was fully human as well, having all our human emotions, like laughter, tears, etc, that He may fully share in all our joys and sorrows as well. He was being compassionate and empathetic and loving.

God Bless.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Let's not forget, though, that Jesus was also angry.

John 11:33, 38 NLT - 33 "When Jesus saw her weeping and saw the other people wailing with her, a deep anger welled up within him, and he was deeply troubled." ... 38 "Jesus was still angry as he arrived at the tomb, a cave with a stone rolled across its entrance."

It [may] be important to also consider why Jesus was angry if we are to get to the bottom of why Jesus wept. And again, this is just another idea of possibility.

 

[JaumeJ]

Joh_11:35 Jesus wept... Curious as to others thoughts on why Jesus wept. What are your thoughts , does the 'why' even matter to you? I dont have a 'revelation' on this, not building a doctrine or theology. Simply asking for your views. Over the years i have heard different theories, as most of us have. Did those sermons or teachings give you any insight?

He wept due to the lack of ability to understand Him by so many.

 

[posthuman]

Joh_11:35 Jesus wept... Curious as to others thoughts on why Jesus wept. What are your thoughts , does the 'why' even matter to you? I dont have a 'revelation' on this, not building a doctrine or theology. Simply asking for your views. Over the years i have heard different theories, as most of us have. Did those sermons or teachings give you any insight?

IMO it is impossible He wept over Lazarus. He raised him; He will raise Him again to everlasting life on the last day.

instead my belief is that He wept over the lack of faith of those who remained on earth, over their grief. it shows His compassion, which is both human & divine. He is a living God, The Living God - and He has a very real heart, which is not untouched by His love, but full of love, and of empathy, tenderness, and kindness.

 

[posthuman]

If Jesus wept because of His fear of what was to come within just hours, Luke 22:42-44 might support this idea:

fear would be indicative of unbelief & lack of faith, therefore sin.

so, no. impossible. blasphemous.

in the garden He wept for His disciples, and for us. for Him to drink His cup meant for us much grief & tribulation, in particular for His disciples to go through what they had to go through, rather than for Him to stay with them. He went willingly to endure the cross "for the joy set before Him" -- any interpretation you have of Luke 22 / John 17 etc has to be in 100% agreement with Hebrews 12:2, or it is wrong.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

fear would be indicative of unbelief & lack of faith, therefore sin.

so, no. impossible. blasphemous.

in the garden He wept for His disciples, and for us. for Him to drink His cup meant for us much grief & tribulation, in particular for His disciples to go through what they had to go through, rather than for Him to stay with them. He went willingly to endure the cross "for the joy set before Him" -- any interpretation you have of Luke 22 / John 17 etc has to be in 100% agreement with Hebrews 12:2, or it is wrong.

Nah. Fear of torture is reasonable and rational. Let's not strip Jesus of His humanity. That has nothing to do with the Devil. Paul himself suffered extremely with Stress and Anxiety, including blatant fear. Let's not question his faith as well.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

fear would be indicative of unbelief & lack of faith, therefore sin.

so, no. impossible. blasphemous.

in the garden He wept for His disciples, and for us. for Him to drink His cup meant for us much grief & tribulation, in particular for His disciples to go through what they had to go through, rather than for Him to stay with them. He went willingly to endure the cross "for the joy set before Him" -- any interpretation you have of Luke 22 / John 17 etc has to be in 100% agreement with Hebrews 12:2, or it is wrong.

Good luck trying to convince anyone that Jesus had joy in his heart as he was being beaten and speared.

 

[posthuman]

Nah. Fear of torture is reasonable and rational. Let's not strip Jesus of His humanity. That has nothing to do with the Devil. Paul himself suffered extremely with Stress and Anxiety, including blatant fear. Let's not question his faith as well.

i do not agree with what i perceive is your position/understanding of this point;
i will begin to explain:

how many times did Jesus say "do not be afraid" ?
why?

if Jesus is doubting whether the cross is a good idea, He is doubting God = sin.
if Jesus is afraid of death, He is doubting God = sin.
if Jesus is afraid of pain, He is idolizing comfort = sin.

there are no two ways about this, and it isn't a denial of humanity. fear in us is weakness and doubting the power of God and idolizing our own pleasure. it's sin. if God tells you to do something, and you waver because it's going to be "uncomfortable" for you in any measure, how is that not sin?

Christ is not weeping because He is full of self-pity or doubt. He is human, but He is **perfect** humanity, not sinful, unfaithful, vain humanity. if it is in any way otherwise, there is no salvation. our hope is not in someone fallible, wavering & weak but in God who is perfect in wisdom, perfect in power, perfect in faithfulness and perfect in steadfastness.

we are not meant to 'feel sorry for Christ God' when we think of what He did. Almighty God is not to be pitied.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

i do not agree with what i perceive is your position/understanding of this point;
i will begin to explain:

how many times did Jesus say "do not be afraid" ?
why?

if Jesus is doubting whether the cross is a good idea, He is doubting God = sin.
if Jesus is afraid of death, He is doubting God = sin.
if Jesus is afraid of pain, He is idolizing comfort = sin.

there are no two ways about this, and it isn't a denial of humanity. fear in us is weakness and doubting the power of God and idolizing our own pleasure. it's sin. if God tells you to do something, and you waver because it's going to be "uncomfortable" for you in any measure, how is that not sin?

Christ is not weeping because He is full of self-pity or doubt. He is human, but He is **perfect** humanity, not sinful, unfaithful, vain humanity. if it is in any way otherwise, there is no salvation. our hope is not in someone fallible, wavering & weak but in God who is perfect in wisdom, perfect in power, perfect in faithfulness and perfect in steadfastness.

we are not meant to 'feel sorry for Christ God' when we think of what He did. Almighty God is not to be pitied.

Okie doke

 

[Magenta]

When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come with
her also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and troubled.

 

[posthuman]

Okie doke

if Jesus commands me "do not be afraid" and then i am afraid anyway, am i not in disobedience = sin?
and if He is commanding me not to fear, then my fear was unrighteousness = sin to begin with, correct?
we agree on that, right?

so you can see the logic of my argument.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Joh_11:35 Jesus wept... Curious as to others thoughts on why Jesus wept. What are your thoughts , does the 'why' even matter to you? I dont have a 'revelation' on this, not building a doctrine or theology. Simply asking for your views. Over the years i have heard different theories, as most of us have. Did those sermons or teachings give you any insight?

I think it shows Jesus humanity and love for people he was among a bunch of grieving folks, one thing about Jesus is he is full of compassion and tenderheartedness towards his people who he loves like Lazarus Mary and Martha

another thought a bit contrary would be that Jesus wept because of the incredible lack of faith they had on him after he’s already done so much to prove his almighty power throughout the region

 

[posthuman]

Okie doke

let me continue to explain, because this is not something for you to dismiss but for you to take seriously.

consider Stephen's martyrdom in Acts 7.
Stephen shows no signs of fear or self-pity or trepidation or any other lack of faith.

is Stephen more faithful therefore than Jesus Christ the Author & Finisher & Object of our faith, & Stephen's own also?

the position you put forth makes Stephen more faithful than Christ, Who is God Himself, because Stephen doesn't fear but supposedly Christ is crying and whimpering feeling sorry for Himself absolutely terrified of feeling pain and scared out of His mind to die, delirious & powerless on the cross; a shivering, pathetic wretch.

Jesus Christ the Almighty God is not to be pitied. He is to be held in awe.
IMO the way 98% of pulpits talk about Him on Ishtar-Sunday is horrendously blasphemous disrespect. JMO.




((bit of a sore point for me what with Hollywood & the modern Laodicean ignorant church et al. so forgive my mad ravings for His glory. not any kind of personal issue, just the glory of God.))

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

if Jesus commands me "do not be afraid" and then i am afraid anyway, am i not in disobedience = sin?
and if He is commanding me not to fear, then my fear was unrighteousness = sin to begin with, correct?
we agree on that, right?

so you can see the logic of my argument.

No. I see no logic . . . only misunderstanding of what a command is compared to assurance.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

let me continue to explain, because this is not something for you to dismiss but for you to take seriously.

consider Stephen's martyrdom in Acts 7.
Stephen shows no signs of fear or self-pity or trepidation or any other lack of faith.

is Stephen more faithful therefore than Jesus Christ the Author & Finisher & Object of our faith, & Stephen's own also?

the position you put forth makes Stephen more faithful than Christ, Who is God Himself, because Stephen doesn't fear but supposedly Christ is crying and whimpering feeling sorry for Himself absolutely terrified of feeling pain and scared out of His mind to die, delirious & powerless on the cross; a shivering, pathetic wretch.

Jesus Christ the Almighty God is not to be pitied. He is to be held in awe.
IMO the way 98% of pulpits talk about Him on Ishtar-Sunday is horrendously blasphemous disrespect. JMO.




((bit of a sore point for me what with Hollywood & the modern Laodicean ignorant church et al. so forgive my mad ravings for His glory. not any kind of personal issue, just the glory of God.))

Sorry. This is ridiculous. Stephen was not expecting to be stoned to death . . . that event took him by surprise. And just because the writing didn't express that Stephen was afraid doesn't mean that he didn't feel it. And btw, I've never thought of Stephen as being afraid in this scenario, as I didn't think he had a reason to be.

But according to your idea, the following were in "sin":

Adam and Eve
David
Timothy
Peter
Paul and those who traveled with him (who feared for their lives)
The collective Jews during their 40 years
Jonah

Sorry, I'd add more but I have to head off to work.

 

[posthuman]

No. I see no logic . . . only misunderstanding of what a command is compared to assurance.

if Christ ((Who IS our assurance)) is afraid He is expressing total lack of assurance.

that's blasphemy. if it is expressing humanity at all, it is expressing unbelieving, faithless humanity.

if Christ is faithless, all salvation is void.

 

[posthuman]

But according to your idea, the following were in "sin":

Adam and Eve
David
Timothy
Peter
Paul and those who traveled with him (who feared for their lives)
The collective Jews during their 40 years
Jonah

the Bible itself affirms & plainly states all of these had sin.
& affirms clearly that Christ has no sin whatsoever at any time.

therefore He never lacks faith, never wavers in doubt, and is never afraid.
anything less is blasphemy.

 

[posthuman]

Why, my soul, are you downcast? ​

Why so disturbed within me? ​

Put your hope in God, ​

for I will yet praise him, ​

my Savior and my God!​

(Psalm 42:5) ​

​

the Psalm characterizes a fearful, downcast soul as sinful lack of hope & trust in God.
David admonishes his own heart.

God is not to be pitied.
we are not to 'feel sorry for poor Almighty God He must be so terrified & lonely & hopeless'
to do so is blasphemous disrespect