Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

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FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus went to Hades after His crucifixion and took all the saved people from Paradise and took them to heaven.
JAPOV said:
Please explain.
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Sure.

Eph 4-
8 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

Here, Paul seems to have Psa 68:18 in mind, and even summarizes the entire Psalm.

Also, 1 Pet 3-
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

Since Jesus made clear that the souls of dead people continue to exist in the afterlife, and His account shows that the saved were in Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom, but now are in heaven, as John recorded in Rev 6, they had to get there some way.

So Eph 4:8-10 reveals that way.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said:
They don't have cable, radios, or telephones. Why would they be aware of current events?
Why do you believe that believers in heaven would be burdened by all the evil that is going on down here? In heaven, they are at peace. I take that quite literally.

How can you even come up with this stuff from what I posted?? My point was simple and clear. Souls in heaven aren't ON earth to view current events. That's all. I never said anything about "keep interest". Remember where this discussion began; a verse that the "dead know not anything". Simple statement. Simple answer.

Why would anyone assume that souls in heaven or Hades WOULD know what's going on today?
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Angels go to heaven daily and may make side trips :-)
 
JAPOV said:
2 resurrections, 2 judgments...
First resurrection; The pre-trib rapture.
First judgment; Those not saved during the tribulation.
Second resurrection; Those who died during the 1000yr reign and final war, and all else.
Second judgment; The judgment that every soul who ever lived must face.

Since there hasn't yet been a judgment, Hell is empty.
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Where are the two judgements, Hebrews 9:27 makes seem there is one judgement as does Matthew 25
 
FreeGrace2 said:
Correct. One for all believers, and one for all unbelievers. Acts 24:15


Not correct. The singular resurrection of all believers will be at the Second Advent. 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

When the NT mentioned "when He comes" or "the coming of Christ", it is always related to the prophecy in the OT. There, we find prophecies about TWO comings or advents of the Messiah. The first one was His birth and ministry as the suffering servant. The second one will be the Second Advent when Christ returns to earth as King of kings, and Lord of lords.

So 1 Cor 15:23 specifically identifies the singular resurrection of all believers (those who belong to Him) at the end of the Tribulation.


Not really a judgment. It is God's wrath poured on the earth.


No, the second resurrection follows the first resurrection of all the saved by 1,000 years. Rev 20:5


All believers will be evaluated or judged, according to what they have done, whether good or bad, at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Pretribbers think this will occur in heaven, during the tribulation. Howver, since there will be no resurrection until "He comes" back, the Bema will occur at the beginning of His earthly Millennial reign. 2 Cor 5:10

All unbelievers will be judged 1,000 years later at the GWT judgment, and then be cast into the lake of fire.


No, Hades still holds all the souls of unbelievers. At the GWT judgment, death and hell (Hades) will be cast into the lake of fire.
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Acts 24:15

Easy-to-Read Version



15 I have the same hope in God that these Jews have—the hope that all people, good and bad, will be raised from death.
Acts text does not support two Judgements.
 
JAPOV said:
When saved, we are reborn in Spirit and joined with Christ, so the dead in Christ are with Christ in Spirit. Resurrection is also transfiguration.

If not saved, you are dead already. The dead sleep until judgment.

2 resurrections, 2 judgments...
First resurrection; The pre-trib rapture. The "reborn" do not suffer with the dead.
First judgment; Those not saved during the tribulation DIE physically and sleep.
Second resurrection; Those who died during the 1000yr reign, the final war, and all else.
Second judgment; The judgment that every soul who ever lived must face.

Since there hasn't yet been a judgment, Hell is empty.
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Where does the grammar, verb in Hebrews 9:27 allow a gap between death and judgement?
 
FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus said otherwise. He told of a rich man and a poor man called Lazarus who both died and went to Hades, the place of all dead. Lazarus was in Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom, and the rich man was in torments. Both were obviously conscious, and the rich man had a conversation with Abraham. He wanted Abe to send Lazarus over to "cool his tongue" with a drop of water, proving that both were conscious.


Again, no. It is full of dead unbelievers, awaiting their resurrection for the GWT and then being cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20.
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Isaiah 14:9-11

Easy-to-Read Version



9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.
 
TheLearner said:
Where are the two judgements, Hebrews 9:27 makes seem there is one judgement as does Matthew 25
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All believers will be judged (evaluated) at the Bema (Judgment Seat of Christ) per 2 Cor 5:10.

All unbelievers will be judged (evaluated) at the Great White Throne judgment per Rev 20:11-15.

Both judgments are based on works. But NO ONE gets into heaven based on their works.

Works will determine the level of reward for believers, and will determine how "tolerable" it will be for them in the lake of fire.
 
TheLearner said:
Acts 24:15

Easy-to-Read Version

15 I have the same hope in God that these Jews have—the hope that all people, good and bad, will be raised from death.
Acts text does not support two Judgements.
Click to expand...
It does support two resurrections: one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
 
"
Characteristics of the risen body
All shall rise from the dead in their own, in their entire, and in immortal bodies; but the good shall rise to the resurrection of life, the wicked to the resurrection of Judgment. It would destroy the very idea of resurrection, if the dead were to rise in bodies not their own. Again, the resurrection, like the creation, is to be numbered amongst the principal works of God; hence, as at the creation all things are perfect from the hand of God, so at the resurrection all things must be perfectly restored by the same omnipotent hand. But there is a difference between the earthly and the risen body; for the risen bodies of both saints and sinners shall be invested with immortality. This admirable restoration of nature is the result of the glorious triumph of Christ over death as described in several texts of Sacred Scripture: Isaiah 25:8; Osee, xiii, 14; 1 Corinthians 15:26; Apocalypse 2:4. But while the just shall enjoy an endless felicity in the entirety of their restored members, the wicked "shall seek death, and shall not find it, shall desire to die, and death shall fly from them" (Revelation 9:6).

These three characteristics, identity, entirety, and immortality, will be common to the risen bodies of the just and the wicked. But the bodies of the saints shall be distinguished by four transcendent endowments, often called qualities.

The first is "impassibility", which shall place them beyond the reach of pain and inconvenience. "It is sown", says the Apostle, "in corruption, it shall rise in incorruption" (1 Corinthians 15:42). The Schoolmen call this quality impassibility', not incorruption, so as to mark it as a peculiarity of the glorified body; the bodies of the damned will be incorruptible indeed, but not impassible; they shall be subject to heat and cold, and all manner of pain."

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12792a.htm
 
it is no parable. Parables do not use name. It is an actual story. Actually, even a prophetic one, for I believe it describes the same Lazarus that is Christ's find and was resurrected. It was still under the old Covenant. However, it does proof that hell is a real thing. Soul sleep is a lie created by Ellen G. White.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
It does support two resurrections: one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
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On such I will not be sure entirely. There is description on judgements for saved and lost. Matthew 25 shows that. The Great White Throne also indicates some in this judgement may still be saved, seeing the judgement according to their works. This shows people in the Millenium may be saved differently from us, for Christ will be on earth and works will play a role, since faith in Christ will no longer be required then. There are many passages that describe life in the Millenium, especially in Isaiah and Zechariah.
 
NilsForChrist said:
On such I will not be sure entirely. There is description on judgements for saved and lost. Matthew 25 shows that. The Great White Throne also indicates some in this judgement may still be saved, seeing the judgement according to their works. This shows people in the Millenium may be saved differently from us, for Christ will be on earth and works will play a role, since faith in Christ will no longer be required then. There are many passages that describe life in the Millenium, especially in Isaiah and Zechariah.
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Some people seems to believe in Jesus, but Jesus tell them to depart from him because of their works.
"But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity." - biblegateway Luke13:27KJV
 
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Nils said:
Some people seems to believe in Jesus, but Jesus tell them to depart from him because of their works.
"But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity." - biblegateway Luke13:27KJV
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Amen, namesake.
 
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