Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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Oh so you have shown me how the tax collector Chose God and how that is a work?
You have shown me how your formal church (I assume that is what you r=were refering to you when you mentioned them) say we must chose God and how that is a work?
You have shown me where a dispensation does not believe that we are saved apart from faith in God? and that this faith is how one is saved?
You have shown me how your formal church (I assume that is what you r=were refering to you when you mentioned them) say we must chose God and how that is a work?
You have shown me where a dispensation does not believe that we are saved apart from faith in God? and that this faith is how one is saved?
Unless the Bible contradicts itself, which we know cannot be the case, we must hold it is BOTH/AND, not Either/Or. Salvation is BOTH a Gift of Grace, and a Reward mercifully promised by God for Good Works done in Faith. Anything else fails to explain many passages.
Let me give you an example before I cite them: Let's say Parents say to a child, "you do well in your exam, and I will reward you with a Car". There's no way doing well in an exam can "earn" you a car. It is based on Parental/Fatherly love. That's the same way God mercifully rewards our Good Works done in Faith. I could cite many Bible verses that says God rewards those who serve Him faithfully.
"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving." (Col 3:23-24)
"12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done." (Rev 22:12)
Romans 2:5-6 was cited earlier by Goliath and others: "6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a; Psa 62:12; Prov 24:12] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life."
Yes, that was 1 Cor 3:15. But what did he say before that in verse 14? "14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward." Again, clearly, works matter, because, by God's Mercy, they gain rewards in Heaven. Evangelism matters, because you will gain God's Blessings for it, if you do it out of love for God. Martyrdom matters, because you will gain rewards for it (e.g. Rev 2:10), if you suffer death for the Lord's Sake. Similarly, Charity to the Poor etc matters, because God will repay you for the good you do to others.
That's what the Lord teaches in Luk 14:13-15: "13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
After this, he speaks of those who did not labor faithfully: "15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames." They will be saved, but only after being chastised by fire.
Agreed.
When we are Justified/Born Again, we receive the Holy Spirit and enter God's Grace. If we die in God's Grace, even without working much, we will be saved, but our reward will be less, and we may have to wait. Those who labored more will be rewarded more.
That according to the same chapter, verse 8: "8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor."
If Good Works even post-Justification had no value, and do not contribute to our Sanctification by God's Grace, the Bible would never speak of a "Reward" for them. But it does in various passages.
God Bless.
Let me give you an example before I cite them: Let's say Parents say to a child, "you do well in your exam, and I will reward you with a Car". There's no way doing well in an exam can "earn" you a car. It is based on Parental/Fatherly love. That's the same way God mercifully rewards our Good Works done in Faith. I could cite many Bible verses that says God rewards those who serve Him faithfully.
"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving." (Col 3:23-24)
"12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done." (Rev 22:12)
Romans 2:5-6 was cited earlier by Goliath and others: "6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a; Psa 62:12; Prov 24:12] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life."
Yes, that was 1 Cor 3:15. But what did he say before that in verse 14? "14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward." Again, clearly, works matter, because, by God's Mercy, they gain rewards in Heaven. Evangelism matters, because you will gain God's Blessings for it, if you do it out of love for God. Martyrdom matters, because you will gain rewards for it (e.g. Rev 2:10), if you suffer death for the Lord's Sake. Similarly, Charity to the Poor etc matters, because God will repay you for the good you do to others.
That's what the Lord teaches in Luk 14:13-15: "13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
After this, he speaks of those who did not labor faithfully: "15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames." They will be saved, but only after being chastised by fire.
Agreed.
When we are Justified/Born Again, we receive the Holy Spirit and enter God's Grace. If we die in God's Grace, even without working much, we will be saved, but our reward will be less, and we may have to wait. Those who labored more will be rewarded more.
That according to the same chapter, verse 8: "8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor."
If Good Works even post-Justification had no value, and do not contribute to our Sanctification by God's Grace, the Bible would never speak of a "Reward" for them. But it does in various passages.
God Bless.
Again my post # 128 says nothing about faith. You have chosen to believe your own lies about what i posted while the post is there for all to see. I never said this either "a dispensation does not believe that we are saved apart from faith in God"
As i have found over the years how dispensationalism twist and turns the Scriptures you have done the same to my posts.. Funny how that works ... I believe i was as saved when i followed dispensational teaching as i am today .. Your games are a bore this is my last.
As i have found over the years how dispensationalism twist and turns the Scriptures you have done the same to my posts.. Funny how that works ... I believe i was as saved when i followed dispensational teaching as i am today .. Your games are a bore this is my last.
If the poll is to be believed, OK, so what really?
The more people who think they have to do good for others, the better off those who need good works in service to their need(s) are.
I don't think God will hold it against us that we served his kingdom in such ways. God knows who he's called anyway.
The more people who think they have to do good for others, the better off those who need good works in service to their need(s) are.
I don't think God will hold it against us that we served his kingdom in such ways. God knows who he's called anyway.
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whatever
You made an accusation against me and those like. me, Whether you said faith or not does not matter, You said WE CHOSE GOD AND THAT IS WORKS
Yet you continue to refuse to back up that statement, then say I am the one playing games..
Dispensation teaching is not part of the gospel. So what you say makes no sense here. No one is saved because they follow dispensation teaching.
for the last time, Please tell me how the tax collector chose God. Please tell me how the church you mentioned chose God.
You made an accusation that we teach we chose God and that is works. Take faith out of the equation. and just answer the question.
or prove you can not. because you know you were wrong. and prove who is really bearing false witness here.
You made an accusation against me and those like. me, Whether you said faith or not does not matter, You said WE CHOSE GOD AND THAT IS WORKS
Yet you continue to refuse to back up that statement, then say I am the one playing games..
Dispensation teaching is not part of the gospel. So what you say makes no sense here. No one is saved because they follow dispensation teaching.
for the last time, Please tell me how the tax collector chose God. Please tell me how the church you mentioned chose God.
You made an accusation that we teach we chose God and that is works. Take faith out of the equation. and just answer the question.
or prove you can not. because you know you were wrong. and prove who is really bearing false witness here.
the word trinity is not in the bible. Yet if you say the bible teaches the trinity you are not bearing false witness.
I made my point WHY I believe you claim dispys believe faith is a work. And I think I have proven it without a doubt. Whether you wish to acknowledge that is not up to me.. Continue to believ what you will. But leave my belief out of it. You want to make an accusation against me, Back it up
I made my point WHY I believe you claim dispys believe faith is a work. And I think I have proven it without a doubt. Whether you wish to acknowledge that is not up to me.. Continue to believ what you will. But leave my belief out of it. You want to make an accusation against me, Back it up
