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Has someone tried to argue otherwise? 
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Has someone tried to argue otherwise?
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From what I can tell from scripture, the answer is no. It seems that it is a foregone conclusion that "the devil and his angels" do not qualify for salvation, grace, forgiveness, etc. because there is a place of fire prepared in advice for the devil and his angels. I guess that means whatever the devil and his angels do there is no chance for redemption.
Matthew 25:41
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:41
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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I think the only rational conclusion is that one cannot change the fate of Satan. But there is room for the idea that an angel that is "his" currently can change before the judgement into "not his" due to free will. And if that is the case, it could be an acceptable premise to pray for fallen angels or dark spirits. It fits with the theme of overcoming evil with good.
The second aspect we need to consider is what exactly is meant by "praying for"? I think the main focus of the debate comes back to Mat 5:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." - Matthew 5:43-45 KJV
"Thine enemy" - this sense of enemy is also used in the parable of the wheat and tares to explicitly refer to the devil (cf. Mat 5:39), albeit by parable.
"Sun to rise on the evil..." - someone made the argument that this verse only refers to earthly beings because they interpretted "sun" and "rain" to be earthly effects. If that is the case, wouldn't that mean that you could include dark spirits like legion or other afflicting devils?
"Pray for..." - What exactly is meant by praying for someone / something? Jesus tells us how to pray, and the formula comes back to "God's will be done". This clearly means that the purpose of our prayers should never intentionally contrary to God's will. It's not as though we should pray for Satan to be pardoned from the fate that has been set out in scripture. Is it possible that praying for something isn't necessarily about changing the fate of that thing? Is there another purpose to prayer?
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil..." - it seems by this section in the passage that the purpose of prayer in at least some cases is not necessarily to "lock down salvation for the subject of our prayer". Prayer could be to express our nature as children of God by showing charity to those that are undeserving.
The second aspect we need to consider is what exactly is meant by "praying for"? I think the main focus of the debate comes back to Mat 5:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." - Matthew 5:43-45 KJV
"Thine enemy" - this sense of enemy is also used in the parable of the wheat and tares to explicitly refer to the devil (cf. Mat 5:39), albeit by parable.
"Sun to rise on the evil..." - someone made the argument that this verse only refers to earthly beings because they interpretted "sun" and "rain" to be earthly effects. If that is the case, wouldn't that mean that you could include dark spirits like legion or other afflicting devils?
"Pray for..." - What exactly is meant by praying for someone / something? Jesus tells us how to pray, and the formula comes back to "God's will be done". This clearly means that the purpose of our prayers should never intentionally contrary to God's will. It's not as though we should pray for Satan to be pardoned from the fate that has been set out in scripture. Is it possible that praying for something isn't necessarily about changing the fate of that thing? Is there another purpose to prayer?
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil..." - it seems by this section in the passage that the purpose of prayer in at least some cases is not necessarily to "lock down salvation for the subject of our prayer". Prayer could be to express our nature as children of God by showing charity to those that are undeserving.
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I'll try not to confuse this question with the other thread's question on "praying"
If by grace we mean salvation, if it is destined for Satan and his angels to be cast into the LoF, grace is out of question and the answer is "no".
But, there is an important nuance that needs to be explored into whether a current angel of Satan can ever leave behind the identity of being Satan's before the judgement. The sinful angels were chained in Tartarus to await judgement.
If "his" angel can be changed into "not his" angel prior to judgement, it stands that a current angel of Satan could qualify for grace.
If by grace we mean salvation, if it is destined for Satan and his angels to be cast into the LoF, grace is out of question and the answer is "no".
But, there is an important nuance that needs to be explored into whether a current angel of Satan can ever leave behind the identity of being Satan's before the judgement. The sinful angels were chained in Tartarus to await judgement.
If "his" angel can be changed into "not his" angel prior to judgement, it stands that a current angel of Satan could qualify for grace.
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it’s repentance that they can’t find and what keeps one from grace. The devil and his angels would never accept this true grace because of what it does for us
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Titus 2:11-12, 14 KJV
many men and angels will Not accept Gods grace because it redeems us from sin teaches us not to follow lust and pride and greed and selfishness Satan and his angels are the ones spreading lies , lust, greed , pride ect all the inner spiritual thkngs THat leads man to commit sin
certainly Satan and his angels aren’t repenting unto salvation in grace. One thing about Gods true grace is it doesn’t erase the need to repent nor does it approve of ongoing sin
this is what Satan and his angels peddle sin and death
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Titus 2:11-12, 14 KJV
many men and angels will Not accept Gods grace because it redeems us from sin teaches us not to follow lust and pride and greed and selfishness Satan and his angels are the ones spreading lies , lust, greed , pride ect all the inner spiritual thkngs THat leads man to commit sin
certainly Satan and his angels aren’t repenting unto salvation in grace. One thing about Gods true grace is it doesn’t erase the need to repent nor does it approve of ongoing sin
this is what Satan and his angels peddle sin and death
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Your personal belief is correct. The source of the demons is when the serpent committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by breaking his own breath of life into the Three Lies back in the Garden. That action is the unforgiveable sin and also the original sin, hence why there is no hope of salvation for Satan.
In Matt 5:37-48, I think Jesus is saying that in order to be perfect like our Father we need to love our enemies.
It seems like loving our enemies is not the "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" method because that is the equivalent of hating our enemies. It kinda seems like Jesus is saying the kind of love that our enemies deserve is something that only God is capable of providing like sunshine and rain for the Earth, without which we wouldn't even be able to have life on Earth as we know it.
The only thing we can do is not resist evil and to pray. Not resisting evil seems like it means we don't require our enemy's eye if they hurt our eye, but that doesn't rule out the possibility there can be no punitive measures taken against an enemy. After all, the passage does clearly define them as our enemies and that didn't change. Also, loving our enemies has to involve providing necessities for them.
So in conclusion, an enemy is the opposite of a neighbor and an enemy would be someone who wants to harm you or someone who won't provide material or physical necessities and blessings for you. Pray for them. I guess just saying their name in prayer and asking God's will be done for them is enough.
It seems like loving our enemies is not the "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" method because that is the equivalent of hating our enemies. It kinda seems like Jesus is saying the kind of love that our enemies deserve is something that only God is capable of providing like sunshine and rain for the Earth, without which we wouldn't even be able to have life on Earth as we know it.
The only thing we can do is not resist evil and to pray. Not resisting evil seems like it means we don't require our enemy's eye if they hurt our eye, but that doesn't rule out the possibility there can be no punitive measures taken against an enemy. After all, the passage does clearly define them as our enemies and that didn't change. Also, loving our enemies has to involve providing necessities for them.
So in conclusion, an enemy is the opposite of a neighbor and an enemy would be someone who wants to harm you or someone who won't provide material or physical necessities and blessings for you. Pray for them. I guess just saying their name in prayer and asking God's will be done for them is enough.
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