Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

[GRACE_ambassador]

Hello Grace,

Yes some heard a voice but no one saw, anything but paul he was the only witness. Now can you tell me what paul added to the scriptures that Jesus son of GOD had not already thought us?

Blessings,

JF

Precious friend, if you mean "what Paul added to The Scriptures that
Jesus SON Of GOD had not already taught?" Then that would be:

The Revelation Of The Mystery, Kept Hid In God, Until Revealed To Paul,
From The Risen And Glorified Head Of The Body Of Christ, For us Today:

Rom 16:25 "Now to Him That is of Power to Stablish you According
to my Gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, According To The
Revelation Of The Mystery, Which Was Kept Secret since the world began"

Paul's Gospel Is The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God! (Romans - Philemon)

What God Kept Secret Was "what Paul added To Scripture," Correct?

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And, In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

What we do know is from faith, it's not a list of rules to follow, it's simply seeking to do and be the good pleasure of God.

Precious friend, you mean like this, in The Simplicity Of Christ?

Under The Law Of The Spirit, in "faith which worketh by love," we:

"Fulfill ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE thy neighbor
as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)

Simple enough [NO list needed] for me. Amen?

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Goliath]

Sin is transgression of the law, and transgression of the law leads to death.

As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us. Psalm 103:12

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:2‬
QUOTE]

Are you able to put into your own words?
Are you saying Jesus took away the penalty for the sinner?

 

[Goliath]

Being under the Law doesn't mean you are not Lawless.

Obedience to God is what determines whether a person is Lawless or not. Not what Laws a person IMAGINES they keep.

What confuses me most about folks who believe as you, is you say we are under the New covenant of Jesus Christ and yet also believe you are not under the Law of God.
Why is that confusing?
Because A Covenant is a Law, the Law between God and man, wether it be an Old or New Covenant..its still the Law. So when people like you tell me they are not under the Law, they are unknowingly saying they are not under the Law of Christ...the New covenant of Jesus Christ...
Look it up...use the Bible..use a dictionary and they will tell you the same thing.

What was the Old Covenant called? The Law of Moses.
What is the New Covenant called? The Law of Christ.
Can you see the similarities?

 

[arthurfleminger]

What confuses me most about folks who believe as you, is you say we are under the New covenant of Jesus Christ and yet also believe you are not under the Law of God.
Why is that confusing?
Because A Covenant is a Law, the Law between God and man, wether it be an Old or New Covenant..its still the Law. So when people like you tell me they are not under the Law, they are unknowingly saying they are not under the Law of Christ...the New covenant of Jesus Christ...
Look it up...use the Bible..use a dictionary and they will tell you the same thing.

What was the Old Covenant called? The Law of Moses.
What is the New Covenant called? The Law of Christ.
Can you see the similarities?

Goliath, you are correct. Laws apply to the new covenant. Paul points out many sins against the 10 commandments, God's laws that will lead to eternal damnation. For sure, Paul did not advocate doing away with the laws of God. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, the apostle Paul wrote, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Furthermore, Paul says, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20). He explains that later: "Sin through the commandment becomes exceedingly sinful" (Romans 7:13). What was already wrong becomes worse because now it breaks a commandment which made the wrong clear.

 

[arthurfleminger]

Goliath, you are correct. Laws apply to the new covenant. Paul points out many sins against the 10 commandments, God's laws that will lead to eternal damnation. For sure, Paul did not advocate doing away with the laws of God. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, the apostle Paul wrote, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Furthermore, Paul says, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20). He explains that later: "Sin through the commandment becomes exceedingly sinful" (Romans 7:13). What was already wrong becomes worse because now it breaks a commandment which made the wrong clear.

One needs to look very closely at Scripture if they think that Paul abolishes the 10 commandments. It is difficult to understand how anyone can conclude that Paul is here announcing the abolition of the Ten Commandments, God’s great moral law. So long as the new hearts and minds of the children of God last, the divine law, in living characters, will be written upon them. Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled” (Matthew 5:17,18).

If you believe that the 10 Commandments of God no longer apply to us Christians, that means that murder, adultery, stealing, lying, coveting neighbor's wife/goods, having false gods are not sins and that we are free to do anything we want.

So, maybe God's 10 commandments weren't what Paul was talking about when he said Christians were no longer under the law?

 

[Goliath]

Goliath, you are correct. Laws apply to the new covenant. Paul points out many sins against the 10 commandments, God's laws that will lead to eternal damnation. For sure, Paul did not advocate doing away with the laws of God. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, the apostle Paul wrote, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Furthermore, Paul says, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20). He explains that later: "Sin through the commandment becomes exceedingly sinful" (Romans 7:13). What was already wrong becomes worse because now it breaks a commandment which made the wrong clear.

The Law of Moses...was written on stone.
The Law of Christ...is written on our heart.
God called what he would write on our hearts..The Law..and people still want to argue this point.
Folks,
when God said, "seek and you shall find", he wasn't telling you get it from someone who has been to a seminary, teaching a doctrine you want to hear. He wants you to use the teacher he gave you..as a gift...Gods Holy Spirit. Just because you believe something, that doesn't make it the Truth.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The Law of Moses...was written on stone.
The Law of Christ...is written on our heart.
God called what he would write on our hearts..The Law..and people still want to argue this point.
Folks,
when God said, "seek and you shall find", he wasn't telling you get it from someone who has been to a seminary, teaching a doctrine you want to hear. He wants you to use the teacher he gave you..as a gift...Gods Holy Spirit. Just because you believe something, that doesn't make it the Truth.

Actually, the law under the Old Covenant was more than 10. There were in excess of 600 laws that had to be followed. It is the whole of the 600+ we call "the law" - not 10.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

That is incorrect. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus actually taught the proper, higher, and spiritual meaning of the Ten Commandments. And when the apostles spoke of the Law of Christ and the Law of Love, that included the Ten Commandments. The difference between the Old and New Covenants is that in the former the commandments were written on tablets of stone, and in the latter they are written on hearts and minds.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb 10:15-17)

Does that scripture say that GOD In CHRIST JESUS taught the apostles to teach the law that Moses gave the Israelites which was the administration of Death written and engraven on stone? SMH

 

[Iconoclast]

are you suggesting that gentiles are under the Law, which they never were?

All men from all time are under Gods law.
Sin is the transgression of the law of God.
We all sin against God.
At the judgment only those rightly related to the law will enter heaven and New Heaven New Earth.
Jesus was the only perfect law keeper.
We must be found In Saving Union with Him, by new birth.

 

[Goliath]

Actually, the law under the Old Covenant was more than 10. There were in excess of 600 laws that had to be followed. It is the whole of the 600+ we call "the law" - not 10.

Does it really matter?
For...I agree, we are not under the Law of Moses...which is what Paul was referring to when he said it. An easier way to say it, to make it better understood, Paul was saying we are not under the Old Covenant...which was called the Law of Moses.

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm saying we cannot keep all the law and that is why Christ came. I don't suggest, I say what I mean.

But you avoid answering the questions?
Support your view with scripture.

 

[Goliath]

All men from all time are under Gods law.
Sin is the transgression of the law of God.
We all sin against God.
At the judgment only those rightly related to the law will enter heaven and New Heaven New Earth.
Jesus was the only perfect law keeper.
We must be found In Saving Union with Him, by new birth.

Exactly!!
People make the claim they are sinners, but say they are not under the Law. (1 John 3:4)
If sin is the transgression of the Law, and they are not under the Law, how can they be sinners?
You must be under the Law if you are a sinner, for without the Law there can be no sin..

 

[Magenta]

All men from all time are under Gods law.
Sin is the transgression of the law of God.
We all sin against God.
At the judgment only those rightly related to the law will enter heaven and New Heaven New Earth.
Jesus was the only perfect law keeper.
We must be found In Saving Union with Him, by new birth.

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not
charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Romans 5:13

 

[arthurfleminger]

That is incorrect. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus actually taught the proper, higher, and spiritual meaning of the Ten Commandments. And when the apostles spoke of the Law of Christ and the Law of Love, that included the Ten Commandments. The difference between the Old and New Covenants is that in the former the commandments were written on tablets of stone, and in the latter they are written on hearts and minds.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb 10:15-17)

Nemiah, I agree with you 100, Jesus fulfills the Ten Commandments by taking them to a higher level, not abolishing them. See Jesus teaching on the commandments:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
18Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.*

Jesus even tells us that He is even more stringent on the Commandments than the Jews thought.
I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Teaching About Anger.*
“You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’*
* But I say to you, whoever is angry* with his brother will be liable to judgment,o and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.

Jesus cites another Commandment, and addresses adultery:
You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

For those who think that Jesus or Paul came to do away with the 10 Commandments, you have built your house on weak and shifting sand.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

"2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them; the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments." source

Romans 5:20-21
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Does it really matter?
For...I agree, we are not under the Law of Moses...which is what Paul was referring to when he said it. An easier way to say it, to make it better understood, Paul was saying we are not under the Old Covenant...which was called the Law of Moses.

But who is running around teaching we are devoid of any responsibility towards God? I've never seen, neither as a Christian nor as a non-Christian, anyone say that we can do anything whatsoever and still get to heaven...

Just because some lie about their position in Christ, or others may backslide doesn't mean that such a thing is taught anywhere.

And that thought process seems to be the point of the thread, that there's Christians somewhere who think they can fornicate their way into heaven and I've never seen anything like that ever suggested

 

[Jesusfollower]

Precious friend, if you mean "what Paul added to The Scriptures that
Jesus SON Of GOD had not already taught?" Then that would be:

The Revelation Of The Mystery, Kept Hid In God, Until Revealed To Paul,
From The Risen And Glorified Head Of The Body Of Christ, For us Today:

Rom 16:25 "Now to Him That is of Power to Stablish you According
to my Gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, According To The
Revelation Of The Mystery, Which Was Kept Secret since the world began"

Paul's Gospel Is The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God! (Romans - Philemon)

What God Kept Secret Was "what Paul added To Scripture," Correct?

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And, In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace...

Dear Grace, i am just trying to explain that paul did not know personally Jesus. In his numerous writings, he constantly boasts that is equal or superior to the true 12 apostle that were hand picked by Jesus son of god. paul made himself an apostle. He boasts about his gospel which is different from the teachings of Christ. Was paul's teachings approved by the true apostles of the time? please verify this. ( verify also who wrote the texts it is important ) Jesus son of God would have communicated all of what paul said himself if it was true he did not forget anything he fulfilled the law and prophecy about the messiah. paul writes a mixture of truth and his own personal interpretation perhaps due to the fact that he he never followed christ personally. paul's writings creates confusion in all the posts because his writings are confused and changing according to his target audience he admits this himself but i forgot the verse. I stopped reading the bibie for 30 years because of paul, i am very slow to understand sometimes but when i do, I do.

I do not ask anyone to believe me but strongly encourage you to examine all of paul's scriptures in great detail and compare to non pauline scriptures. Paul's gospel is I believe from paul only. I will not go in detail now the post would be too long. but i am willing to go in more detail if needed.

I will always beleive the teachings of Jesus Christ, he sod of God over paul's own gospel.

Blessings and may your search for truth be fruitful.

JF

 

[kaylagrl]

But you avoid answering the questions?
Support your view with scripture.

No avoidance and once again sister Mag. has nailed it. Your question has been answered.

 

[peldom10]

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not
charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Romans 5:13

Example of ........"where there is no law"?