Reconciling Matthew 24 and Revelation 6
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I so disagree 
Rev_6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Rev_6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
I'm glad you posted the verse because there is an interesting phrase...
he went forth conquering (present tense), and to conquer (future tense).
To me, this signifies that it was already at work at the time of John's vision.
This works against the notion that the seals are not opened until the 70th week.
In any case, I don't disagree that the White Horse is riding in all righteousness.
The main focus here is the deception that Jesus was addressing in the Olivet Discourse.
so Jesus gave up His white horse .. A bow is also sign from God...
Gen_9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen_9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen_9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
we will not agree so i will stop the yes no yes no yes no
Gen_9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen_9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen_9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
we will not agree so i will stop the yes no yes no yes no
... be ready
Generations of christians are come and gone ... how will they be ready? fact is those who sleep in the Lord will be first to rise, ready or not.
My understanding of this saying "be ready ... be prepared" is to be ready for times and seasons of His coming, which I understand will be a time of great peril and testing for us all.
The great trial, the great tribulation.
Generations of christians are come and gone ... how will they be ready? fact is those who sleep in the Lord will be first to rise, ready or not.
My understanding of this saying "be ready ... be prepared" is to be ready for times and seasons of His coming, which I understand will be a time of great peril and testing for us all.
The great trial, the great tribulation.
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False Christs will be counterfeit Christs. So the white horse in Revelation 6 is a counterfeit to the white horse in Revelation 19, and the rider is a false Christ -- a counterfeit to the true Christ. Will false Christs deceive many? Absolutely. Therefore this man is depicted as one going forth with a bow to conquer and conquering many.
He also prefigures the coming Antichrist, but there have been at least two dozen false Christs on earth since the first century. Here is what Jesus said at the start of the Olivet Discourse: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
It is significant to note that Christ began the Olivet discourse with a warning about false Messiahs (or Christs). Since the Jews had generally rejected their true Messiah, they would be allowed to be deceived by the Antichrist. But until then many would be deceived by other false Messiahs, the first one being Simon bar Kochba, who led an army against Rome. There is a depiction of bar Kochba riding a white horse, but this software does not allow me to post a smaller image.
"It was Rabbi Akiva who ascribed to Shimon bar Kochba the famous messianic verse: “A star will shoot forth from Jacob” (Numbers 24:17). That is how he got the name “Kochba,” which means “star.” In essence, Rabbi Akiva crowned him the Messiah. Rabbi Akiva was so widely respected among the people that if he saw in Shimon messianic qualities then the people immediately elevated him to the level of the Messiah. This helps us understand very well why the Christians would take no part in the war; it would have made one messiah too many."
https://www.jewishhistory.org/bar-kochba/
He also prefigures the coming Antichrist, but there have been at least two dozen false Christs on earth since the first century. Here is what Jesus said at the start of the Olivet Discourse: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
It is significant to note that Christ began the Olivet discourse with a warning about false Messiahs (or Christs). Since the Jews had generally rejected their true Messiah, they would be allowed to be deceived by the Antichrist. But until then many would be deceived by other false Messiahs, the first one being Simon bar Kochba, who led an army against Rome. There is a depiction of bar Kochba riding a white horse, but this software does not allow me to post a smaller image.
"It was Rabbi Akiva who ascribed to Shimon bar Kochba the famous messianic verse: “A star will shoot forth from Jacob” (Numbers 24:17). That is how he got the name “Kochba,” which means “star.” In essence, Rabbi Akiva crowned him the Messiah. Rabbi Akiva was so widely respected among the people that if he saw in Shimon messianic qualities then the people immediately elevated him to the level of the Messiah. This helps us understand very well why the Christians would take no part in the war; it would have made one messiah too many."
https://www.jewishhistory.org/bar-kochba/
Jesus was speaking of False Prophets (as opposed to false Christs)
In verse 5:
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
He is referring to himself (no Quotes). i.e. others will come in Jesus' name, saying, Jesus is Christ; and shall deceive many.
If they were pretending to be Christ they would not "come in Christ's name".
I think he is specifically referring to False Prophets (Preachers).
He says, again, in verse 11:
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Counterfeit Christs are not the real concern here. It is false teaching.
Also, he is saying this to his disciples. It would be hard to pull a "fake Jesus" on them.
I think we agree on most other aspects of this.
In verse 5:
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
He is referring to himself (no Quotes). i.e. others will come in Jesus' name, saying, Jesus is Christ; and shall deceive many.
If they were pretending to be Christ they would not "come in Christ's name".
I think he is specifically referring to False Prophets (Preachers).
He says, again, in verse 11:
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Counterfeit Christs are not the real concern here. It is false teaching.
Also, he is saying this to his disciples. It would be hard to pull a "fake Jesus" on them.
I think we agree on most other aspects of this.
The biggest hurdle for me to get over in Mat 24:5
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
"come in my name" means "claim to represent me" not "claim to be me"
If one claims to represent Jesus, he states that Jesus is Christ. He doesn't say "I am He".
That's why I've always had a problem with reading it to mean "False Christ".
False Prophet/Preacher/Teacher makes more sense to me.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
"come in my name" means "claim to represent me" not "claim to be me"
If one claims to represent Jesus, he states that Jesus is Christ. He doesn't say "I am He".
That's why I've always had a problem with reading it to mean "False Christ".
False Prophet/Preacher/Teacher makes more sense to me.
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“Practically no one preaches about the eminent return of Jesus. Even those that focus on eschatology really just espouse their theories on "who is the antichrist or the whore of Babylon", etc.”
yes I agree and it’s an important part of the doctrine to believe he could return tomorrow or a thousand years so we should start doing our part better , like a constant spurring on to a better place
“My point is that the opening of the seals was set into motion at the time Jesus was resurrected.”
I agree with this part it happens over a very long period of time began then at his resurrection the seals re all of the judgements written in the law ( war , famine , pestilence , being conquered , these are cursed for breaking the mosaic law d it’s when Jesus died and rose that he fulfilled the law and bEgan opening the judgements in the earth of the law of Moses If they broke it
“We were warned about the "thief in the night". People think that they still have time. That is sad. No one knows when he will come but they all say "this or that hasn't happened, yet". They are waiting for a 7-year covenant or the revealing of antichrist or a rapture event or the building of a temple, red heifer, etc.
They think to themselves "that's when I will prepare", What they are really saying is "that's when I will BELIEVE".
The 6th seal could be upon us tomorrow and the scriptures would reconcile. We just can't quite see it. This is intentional.
There is no time left to "not be ready".
yes I agree with all this
“For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
Mark 13:34-37
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
1 Thessalonians 5:1-6
“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation…. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
2 Peter 3:3-4, 9-10 KJV
we need to get ready like Noah because a flood is coming
yes I agree and it’s an important part of the doctrine to believe he could return tomorrow or a thousand years so we should start doing our part better , like a constant spurring on to a better place
“My point is that the opening of the seals was set into motion at the time Jesus was resurrected.”
I agree with this part it happens over a very long period of time began then at his resurrection the seals re all of the judgements written in the law ( war , famine , pestilence , being conquered , these are cursed for breaking the mosaic law d it’s when Jesus died and rose that he fulfilled the law and bEgan opening the judgements in the earth of the law of Moses If they broke it
“We were warned about the "thief in the night". People think that they still have time. That is sad. No one knows when he will come but they all say "this or that hasn't happened, yet". They are waiting for a 7-year covenant or the revealing of antichrist or a rapture event or the building of a temple, red heifer, etc.
They think to themselves "that's when I will prepare", What they are really saying is "that's when I will BELIEVE".
The 6th seal could be upon us tomorrow and the scriptures would reconcile. We just can't quite see it. This is intentional.
There is no time left to "not be ready".
yes I agree with all this
“For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
Mark 13:34-37
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
1 Thessalonians 5:1-6
“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation…. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
2 Peter 3:3-4, 9-10 KJV
we need to get ready like Noah because a flood is coming
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Doesn't this just mean that the church has a reputation- and not necessarily that the gospel has been preached?
Context: Paul is talking about Israel/Jews here and not gentiles, right?
This one says that it's made manifest to the nations by the scriptures of the prophets... not that the Gospel is being preached, right?
Context: Paul is talking about Israel/Jews here and not gentiles, right?
This one says that it's made manifest to the nations by the scriptures of the prophets... not that the Gospel is being preached, right?
Guess God Word does not necessarily mean what it says to some folks.
I dont dived Gods people seems we are all one in Him Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
We must read with different emphasis .
I dont dived Gods people seems we are all one in Him Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
We must read with different emphasis .
The verse plainly says that these pretenders will say "I am Christ". So why are you making them out to be false prophets? Jesus also mentions false prophets later on, but you are trying to dismiss false Christs. When the Antichrist comes on the scene he will say "I am Christ". Many have already made this claim.
I have read your post here (though I didn't quote it all) and your analysis appears to be somewhat in line with this publishing from Grace Community International:
https://www.gci.org/articles/the-six-seals-of-revelation-6/
You might like to read the article as you would find interest in it.
That said, in response to the portion of your post I have above quoted;
I'm not into predicting the second advent of Christ Jesus because I guess I know history. Europe during the plague lost in some areas anywhere from 50-75% of their population to disease. This created a situation that led to many things like serious famine and need.
They were all sure they were witnessing the end of the very world, never before seen by men. And to be honest we couldn't even begin to imagine how bad it really would have been to live through.
While you have a prediction, it's best to face the coming day God has for us to face full of faith and love of God, as it comes.. lest you lose faith if/when you're prediction doesn't pan out.
The days following the end of the plague back in the day saw not a great gratefulness to God and all the humbleness that should have accompanied the end of hell on earth, but rather, the debauchery that followed was apparently in great scale. People survived and decided "eat drink and be merry" was the need of the day.
We must always be on our guard against such a falling away from faith.
God brings judgement upon nations whenever those nations get out of hand, and whether this spells the second advent or not we are definitely walking into a judgement.
Is this frightening and worrisome? Certainly it is! My husband and I are talking about putting up a hog pen in the yard to stave against rising prices of food, to which no one knows where it ends.
We look around the world and see everyone around us given over to sin in such magnitude I never imagined possible and certainly never expected to witness. I can't hardly even watch the news anymore.
But I put my faith and trust not in men, not in myself, but in God. He has been preparing us this last decade and I know we will be fine regardless of what occurs, on a personal level and as such I'm sure it's the same for every Christian in faith.
We have to hang into Him, and to our calling no matter what the world does. We have a witness and now isn't the time to hide it under the bushel or run out of oil.
https://www.gci.org/articles/the-six-seals-of-revelation-6/
You might like to read the article as you would find interest in it.
That said, in response to the portion of your post I have above quoted;
I'm not into predicting the second advent of Christ Jesus because I guess I know history. Europe during the plague lost in some areas anywhere from 50-75% of their population to disease. This created a situation that led to many things like serious famine and need.
They were all sure they were witnessing the end of the very world, never before seen by men. And to be honest we couldn't even begin to imagine how bad it really would have been to live through.
While you have a prediction, it's best to face the coming day God has for us to face full of faith and love of God, as it comes.. lest you lose faith if/when you're prediction doesn't pan out.
The days following the end of the plague back in the day saw not a great gratefulness to God and all the humbleness that should have accompanied the end of hell on earth, but rather, the debauchery that followed was apparently in great scale. People survived and decided "eat drink and be merry" was the need of the day.
We must always be on our guard against such a falling away from faith.
God brings judgement upon nations whenever those nations get out of hand, and whether this spells the second advent or not we are definitely walking into a judgement.
Is this frightening and worrisome? Certainly it is! My husband and I are talking about putting up a hog pen in the yard to stave against rising prices of food, to which no one knows where it ends.
We look around the world and see everyone around us given over to sin in such magnitude I never imagined possible and certainly never expected to witness. I can't hardly even watch the news anymore.
But I put my faith and trust not in men, not in myself, but in God. He has been preparing us this last decade and I know we will be fine regardless of what occurs, on a personal level and as such I'm sure it's the same for every Christian in faith.
We have to hang into Him, and to our calling no matter what the world does. We have a witness and now isn't the time to hide it under the bushel or run out of oil.
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Being found engaged in evangelizing and advancing the kingdom of God by getting souls saved through faith in Jesus Christ, establishing local churches who can continue to evangelize their communities, when Jesus comes back, IS PREPARING.
Your comments on revelation don't address your idea of "Preparation" or I did not understand it. What is your definition of preparing for the return of Christ if not evangelizing?
What would preparing look like to you? You aren't talking about storing up can goods and living in a hole are you?
Dogs would sniff you out because you have to have an air vent, plus they can sniff you out underground, they are so good at that kind of thing. The only place of safety for a born again Christian is Faith in Christ and being busy doing the Fathers business which is EVANGELIZING.
Is that the reaction you were looking for?
Your comments on revelation don't address your idea of "Preparation" or I did not understand it. What is your definition of preparing for the return of Christ if not evangelizing?
What would preparing look like to you? You aren't talking about storing up can goods and living in a hole are you?
Dogs would sniff you out because you have to have an air vent, plus they can sniff you out underground, they are so good at that kind of thing. The only place of safety for a born again Christian is Faith in Christ and being busy doing the Fathers business which is EVANGELIZING.
Is that the reaction you were looking for?
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Read the whole chapter, Romans 10... it is all about Israel. Paul does mention that there is no difference between Jew and Greek with respect to GOD and SALVATION: to get across the point that Jews are no longer under the Law of Moses, just like Gentiles... But this chapter is about Israel getting saved. We are all one in him. Paul isn't talking about those in him- he's talking about those who heard and did not obey the Gospel- not in Christ. The Gospel was preached everywhere there were Jews. They have heard, but not all obeyed.
Okay, It is easier for me to read when I break it up.
Now to him that is of power to stablish you
(1) according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,
(2) according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26But now is made manifest,
(3)and by the scriptures of the prophets
(4)according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.
So, it does say the commandment for the obedience of faith is known to all nations, but it doesn't say the whole Gospel has been preached to all nations.
Okay, It is easier for me to read when I break it up.
Now to him that is of power to stablish you
(1) according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,
(2) according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26But now is made manifest,
(3)and by the scriptures of the prophets
(4)according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.
So, it does say the commandment for the obedience of faith is known to all nations, but it doesn't say the whole Gospel has been preached to all nations.
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