You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.
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“You do not know what you are asking,” Jesus replied. “Can you drink the cup
I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?” “We can,” the
brothers answered. “You will drink the cup that I drink,” Jesus said, “and
you will be baptized with the baptism that I undergo."
I do not believe the baptism Jesus was alluding to was water baptism.
Look at this, please:
John the Baptist was with two of his disciples when he saw Jesus walking nearby.
John said, “Look, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!” The two
disciples who were with John and heard John the Baptist say this then followed Jesus.
Andrew, as one of those two disciples of John the Baptist, had surely already been
water baptized. He was the first to follow Jesus, with an un-named other, probably Phillip.
So why would Jesus tell them they would undergo the same baptism? Since they had already
been water baptized. Scripture further affirms this: The whole Judean countryside and all the
people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
Ephesians 4:5-6
I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?” “We can,” the
brothers answered. “You will drink the cup that I drink,” Jesus said, “and
you will be baptized with the baptism that I undergo."
I do not believe the baptism Jesus was alluding to was water baptism.
Look at this, please:
John the Baptist was with two of his disciples when he saw Jesus walking nearby.
John said, “Look, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!” The two
disciples who were with John and heard John the Baptist say this then followed Jesus.
Andrew, as one of those two disciples of John the Baptist, had surely already been
water baptized. He was the first to follow Jesus, with an un-named other, probably Phillip.
So why would Jesus tell them they would undergo the same baptism? Since they had already
been water baptized. Scripture further affirms this: The whole Judean countryside and all the
people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
Ephesians 4:5-6
There are plenty of people who want nothing to do with speaking in tongues OR baptism FOR REMISSION of sins. If you don't want either, don't receive them. You just won't stand before God and say you weren't told, or that they weren't available to you.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
John the Baptist, is not related to the Cross of Christ.
John The Baptist, was dunking Old Testament, Jews.
Now that Jesus is come and died and is resurrected, ... we have a NEW TESTAMENT and we preach the GOSPEL, not the WATER.
Paul says that Jesus/God sent him to "preach the GOSPEL"......not the water.
"water cults" preach : Water Baptism
Christian's Preach "Christ Crucified"
Be sure you figure this out., asap.
Jesus (as far as I understand) was talking about the baptism of death in that passage. Jesus was going to go down into death and come back up again (pass through death) on his way to "rest". I think he was telling them they, too, would suffer death on their path to "rest" in God.“You do not know what you are asking,” Jesus replied. “Can you drink the cup
I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?” “We can,” the
brothers answered. “You will drink the cup that I drink,” Jesus said, “and
you will be baptized with the baptism that I undergo."
I do not believe the baptism Jesus was alluding to was water baptism.
Look at this, please:
John the Baptist was with two of his disciples when he saw Jesus walking nearby.
John said, “Look, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!” The two
disciples who were with John and heard John the Baptist say this then followed Jesus.
Andrew, as one of those two disciples of John the Baptist, had surely already been
water baptized. He was the first to follow Jesus, with an un-named other, probably Phillip.
So why would Jesus tell them they would undergo the same baptism? Since they had already
been water baptized. Scripture further affirms this: The whole Judean countryside and all the
people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
Ephesians 4:5-6
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
If I can unravel what I hear you saying, it sounds like you believe Paul's talking about known, human languages in 1 Corinthians 12:30. But the so-called heavenly language is for everyone. Is that correct?
If so, where is the scripture you base this on?
Why do you say that John's baptism is unrelated to the cross of Christ? For John to baptize "for the remission of sins" (which is what Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:4 clearly state it was for) there had to be a blood sacrifice. (no remission without the shedding of blood). The sins were washed away from the individual to be put on Jesus (by God) so Jesus could both take them to the cross (causing them to be nailed to his cross) and make the atonement (blood sacrifice, shedding of blood) for our sins.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Thank you, Kelby, and this is true, however, the death we undergo in being born again
via the Holy Spirit of God is the death of the natural man with the circumcision of our
heart that quickens us, making it possible for us to believe, for the natural man cannot.
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy,
through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:4-5
It is this faith in His shed righteous blood that pleases God, and
also attains/secures for us the promise as heirs of life everlasting.
This is the Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that,
having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
Acts 2:38,39 Acts 2:4 (they ALL were filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues), Acts 10:44-46 (they all started speaking in tongues), Acts 19:6-7 (they all got it). Acts 8:12-17 (because the holy ghost comes at a specific moment not tied to moment of belief OR baptism and can be witnessed by those around, like Simon the sorcerer)
Plus having had experience with tongues, prophecy, healings, miracles and most of the other gifts. So I've gotten to see these things in practice, not just on pages of text. The practice fits the scriptures and the application of what Paul says in terms of how I just explained it. God is no different today than he was when Acts and 1 Corinthians was written. The Holy Ghost is the same Holy Ghost as is offered "unto all that the Lord our God shall call".
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
That's what you (and probably your church doctrine) says. But what does Mark 1:4 say John was baptizing for? Go ahead and post the verse for us, please, so we can see what it really says.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
We both know what it says.
I don't need the patronizing.
Maybe we can talk when your heart and mind are open.
And yet Paul said that he was not sent to baptize but to preach the Gospel. If baptism were essential for salvation, he could never have said that. He would have said "I was sent to preach the Gospel and also to baptize".
Note: baptism is essential for sanctification, not for justification. People should learn the difference.
Thanks for your replies. I appreciate it when you grace me with your company.
(that's honest, not snarky)I think you have a circular argument to sort out. Do we get born again because (after) we believe? Or do we believe because (after) we are born again? Which one comes first? Which leads to the other? (in your thinking)
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
We must keep in mind that John the Baptizer was of the line of Aaron and of Zadok. He was the legitimate Hebrew High Priest.
EVERYTHING that John did was in preparation for Messiah, whom he recognized in Jesus.
It was not the Hebrews that crucified Jesus. It was the Pharisee line of the Hasmoneans (Ashmodi) who usurped the Temple.
They were the descendants of Assyrians, Persians, and Babylonians that populated the Northern Kingdom after the Assyrian conquest.
After John Baptized Jesus, his mission was over.
So, there is no need to discuss John the Baptist's activities AFTER the covenant was FULLFILLED.
EVERYTHING that John did was in preparation for Messiah, whom he recognized in Jesus.
It was not the Hebrews that crucified Jesus. It was the Pharisee line of the Hasmoneans (Ashmodi) who usurped the Temple.
They were the descendants of Assyrians, Persians, and Babylonians that populated the Northern Kingdom after the Assyrian conquest.
After John Baptized Jesus, his mission was over.
So, there is no need to discuss John the Baptist's activities AFTER the covenant was FULLFILLED.
2 things:
- Baptism is for remission of sins (per Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3, Acts 2:38). If you don't think that's necessary, that's up to you regarding your own salvation. It seems necessary to me.
- If Paul was SENT to baptize, he would be required to baptize those God sent him to. As it stands, Paul knew there were others who could perform that duty just as well as he. So he was under no obligation to sacrifice his more specific duties just to perform what could be done by others.
Kelby
All these examples you've given are descriptive of groups of people who all received the gift of tongues, but I don't see anything in the way of prescriptive teaching that teaches tongues is for all believers in all ages.
That's just another example of what Peter said in regards to feeding the widows. (Acts 6:1,2)
Did the widows NEED to eat? (Yes)
Did Peter NEED to give them food? (No. Others could do that part while he did his own)
@Nehemiah6
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Those also happen to be the ONLY four examples given where God records what is happening AS people are receiving the Holy Ghost. So they are the four that I use to test my doctrines/beliefs. Speaking in tongues (as you actually point out) is what fits all occasions. and they ALL received it (even though not specifically spelled out in the Acts 8 account).
But Acts 2:39 and every instance of "I indeed baptize with water, but YE (all believers) SHALL be baptized with the Holy Ghost" is the statement that tells us it is for ALL that the Lord our God shall call.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Jesus was making this point clear when He RE-stated what John said (Acts 1:5) just before speaking in tongues was poured out on ALL 120-ish believers who were there on the day of Pentecost. If it were only for some, he wouldn't have given it to ALL. "they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost and began speaking with other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance" . God wants ALL his worshippers to worship him in Spirit and in truth. If I pray in an unknown tongue my SPIRIT prayeth.
@ResidentAlien
Love in Jesus,
Kelby