You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.
- Thread starter KelbyofGod
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You weren't wrong in your assumption. I do believe that speaking in tongues is the evidence(witness) of a person receiving the Holy Ghost. So did those in the Acts 10:45-46 account (as is specifically stated).
I didn't mention "speaking in tongues" in the OP because I wanted to see what conclusions a person would reach if they had no mention from the poster and were left with only the word of God to draw their conclusions from. (Although you drew from historical conversations as well, which is reasonable.`) Thank you for participating.
So the next 2 questions I would like to pose to you are:
- If you were to extract the history of similar past conversations and now had ONLY with the scriptural references I'd presented, What do you think was the evidence being used to determine (by onlookers) that the people had (or had not) received the Holy Ghost in those accounts?
- Why do you think I chose those particular 4 accounts?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
It seems a tendency to merge the Holy Spirit and water baptism together ...somehow.
I believe the two are separate .........as is repentance and water baptism. That effort is to diminish the importance of water baptism.
They must be treated separate in importance....even though being equal.
1 Peter 3:21 says that water baptism saves by the resurrection of Christ. How does Christ's resurrection save anyone? Thought it was the shedding of blood that gives remission of sins? Well, water baptism saves by because Christ was resurrected then you'll be resurrected. Therefore, water baptism is about getting into the first resurrection.
When St. Peter the Apostle says Baptism saves us by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Apostle is explaining that, in Baptism, we actually die with Christ, and are born again of Water and the Holy Spirit, to a New Life. Baptism saves because Baptism washes away sins and makes us New Creatures in Christ. After Baptism, which is a One-Time Act, Holy Communion has great ongoing importance. Like Baptism, Holy Communion is not merely symbolic. Christ doesn't institute things that are "merely symbolic" but that have a hidden Holy Spirit Power.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean here.
Can you explain your question a little more?
Ok...
What you have missed out on is God's holiness.
Holiness isn't exactly just a static state of existence. Especially when it comes to living things. This state requires an active rejection of anything "unclean" or impure from contaminating/defiling it. As something becomes more holy the activity level rises as well. It's not a thought out response...it's a natural response....similar to "fire is hot". Holy is good and pure and reserved for special use.
So...when we meet our Maker one day the fury of God's holiness and Heaven will be met squarely or satisfied by Jesus's sacrifice on the cross. We have been redeemed/protected from destruction by this sacrifice. (If we avail ourselves of this)
Baptism *as it is now referred to " is an ordinance for entering the priesthood from the Old Covenant. It is a ceremonial cleansing symbolizing a plethora of things. In the New Covenant, it's needed symbolism isn't quite as clear.
Water, in itself, is a symbolic representation of laws, rules, practices, and traditions depending on the type of body of water and the reference.
No it doesn't say that. In v.21 the words "the like figure" is better translated by other translations as "symbolizes", yet both are referring to the same principle.
Water baptism symbolizes the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that does save us.
This is shown clearly in Acts 10 and 11 and the story about Cornelius.
Wow. I guess you just won't stop being deceptive, huh.
You have intentionally left out the words that clearly explain the bolded words above:
and this water (literal) symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
The literal water of baptism (which is a ritual) is a symbol of the baptism that NOW SAVES us.
Until you are able to comprehend and BELIEVE the difference between water and Holy Spirit baptism, your false teaching will continue.
Mark 1:8 - I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
John the baptizer was being very clear about the difference. He used water. Jesus Christ used the Holy Spirit. One is wet, the other is dry.
The discussion centered around the physical and spiritual. Jesus was making the point that in addition to being born physically, one must also be born again spiritually.
Notice how clear this verse is: Peter baptized Cornelius and family/friends AFTER they had already received the Holy Spirit. They were already saved.
Do you really want to argue that Cornelius received the Holy Spirit and was still unsaved before being dunked?
No it doesn't. It doesn't even mention resurrection. It says that literal water SYMBOLIZES the baptism that NOW SAVES us.
So then, literal water symbolizes what exactly? The baptism of the Holy Spirit. That is what saves us.
That is no answer to your question.
Your dissertation here should be a permanent posting...with flashers attached.
Praise God.
You seem to have no idea what you’re talking about. Go back and read 1 Peter 3:21 again in the KJV.
Congrats...you have it exactly BACKWARDS. Be proud with the ....exactly part....and seek God's guidance on the rest.
wrong.........It is about being born again...required for sin cleansing;
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
Here's 1 Pet 3:21 again (NIV):
"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It [Baptism] saves you by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ," (1 Pet 3:21)
(1) Baptism now saves us. Not the physical removing of dirt from the body that happens during the washing of Baptism (which is a proof St. Peter the Apostle is speaking of literal water Baptism here), but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
(2) How does Baptism save us? It i.e. Baptism saves us by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. That means the Resurrected Jesus Christ gave His Resurrection Power to Baptism. Baptism literally raises us from being dead in sins to being alive to God in the New Life of the Spirit.
God Bless,
N. Xavier.
"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It [Baptism] saves you by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ," (1 Pet 3:21)
(1) Baptism now saves us. Not the physical removing of dirt from the body that happens during the washing of Baptism (which is a proof St. Peter the Apostle is speaking of literal water Baptism here), but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
(2) How does Baptism save us? It i.e. Baptism saves us by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. That means the Resurrected Jesus Christ gave His Resurrection Power to Baptism. Baptism literally raises us from being dead in sins to being alive to God in the New Life of the Spirit.
God Bless,
N. Xavier.
You remain very confused about some verses that you have no idea what they mean.
Why that translation? Because it doesn't use the word "symbolizes"?
Check out all the English translations on biblehub.com and you will see that the literal water "prefigures" the baptism that saves, corresponds to" the baptism that saves, and on and on.
Literal water symbolizes the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the baptism that NOW SAVES US.
Your theory is all wet. lol
Quit quoting only the part of a verse that deceptively agrees with you. The first part is "this literal water SYMBOLIZES the baptism that now saves.
It is highly deceptive and dishonest to continue to quote as you do.
Wrong, wrong and yes...wrong.
Baptism for sin cleansing......was not required under the OT...old covenant. Animal sacrifice was in play .....please explain your comment.
We will not see our Maker unless we are repented, baptized and live a righteous life ...."until the end".
You must like basking in the wrong part...because I am not seeing you in the light...yet.
Show it so we can relate...you haven't yet....after saying this several times. Hopefully you will understand scripture and amend.
Good idea??? I am sure God has a special note of your approval.
What gives you the authority to approve God's commandments?...
Is repents a ...... good idea ....... also?
How about living a righteous life..."until the end"?...is that a ......good idea also?
Wow...now I have seen it all...I think....jury is still out though...?????