Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection
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True enough. So when there was a command to get water baptized that was pretty easy to do. Having no water nearby a village, town, or city was a nonexistent talking point, but from our present perspective it’s a real possibility, but it’s also invalid. If there is no water nearby then no one could survive anyway.
That says water baptism is required to get resurrected. In other words, Christ was buried and resurrected so if you get water baptized you too will be resurrected.
We don’t need to separate God’s Spirit from water baptism. As you’ll see, the Holy Spirit didn’t descend upon Jesus and remain with Him until His water baptism. That wasn’t a symbol, that was real and literal.
We don’t need to separate God’s Spirit from water baptism. As you’ll see, the Holy Spirit didn’t descend upon Jesus and remain with Him until His water baptism. That wasn’t a symbol, that was real and literal.
But is verse 29 really teaching that a person can be baptized so as to procure Salvation for the dead? Also in chapter 15 is verse 22 which says this:
"Just as sin by one man, Adam, came into the world and brought death, so too will one man, Christ, come into the world and bring forth Life"
In other words, one man brought corruption to all. And to deal with this corruption, one man, Jesus, will bring Purity. This would seem to negate that a person like Adam could bring Purity to another person like Adam. This wipes out the necessity for Christ.
Isn't it clear that Christ brings forth Eternal Life and not a living person who is baptized for a dead person?
Also in chapter 15 we find the following:
1 Corinthians 15:57 NLT - "But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Purity is through Christ alone, not through baptism from the living for the dead. Purity comes through Christ and none other.
"Just as sin by one man, Adam, came into the world and brought death, so too will one man, Christ, come into the world and bring forth Life"
In other words, one man brought corruption to all. And to deal with this corruption, one man, Jesus, will bring Purity. This would seem to negate that a person like Adam could bring Purity to another person like Adam. This wipes out the necessity for Christ.
Isn't it clear that Christ brings forth Eternal Life and not a living person who is baptized for a dead person?
Also in chapter 15 we find the following:
1 Corinthians 15:57 NLT - "But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Purity is through Christ alone, not through baptism from the living for the dead. Purity comes through Christ and none other.
There are the wells of Abraham that were dug . . . to name but one.
How do you explain that our Patriarchs were made Pure, Righteous, and Holy prior to the life and death of Christ? How could they be Purified without water baptism? Isn't there but one Faith and one Baptism? And if there is only one Baptism, then THAT particular Baptism was also taking place in the Old Testament. What is THAT Baptism?
Could that Baptism have anything to do with the Circumcision of Abraham established in Genesis 17? That particular everlasting Covenant . . . isn't that the same action which points to the future Covenant (established in Abraham) that has been in existence since the days of Abel, our First True Prophet?
You're not understanding Spiritual Circumcision. It is the context of the entire Bible. If Spiritual Circumcision were not the focus of the entire Bible, then the Bible is useless. Spiritual Circumcision is the Purpose of Christ, it is the Work of Christ, and this Work produces the Holy Effect of Christ.
You must get this established in your mind if you want to have a proper view of Scripture.
How do you explain that our Patriarchs were made Pure, Righteous, and Holy prior to the life and death of Christ? How could they be Purified without water baptism? Isn't there but one Faith and one Baptism? And if there is only one Baptism, then THAT particular Baptism was also taking place in the Old Testament. What is THAT Baptism?
Could that Baptism have anything to do with the Circumcision of Abraham established in Genesis 17? That particular everlasting Covenant . . . isn't that the same action which points to the future Covenant (established in Abraham) that has been in existence since the days of Abel, our First True Prophet?
You're not understanding Spiritual Circumcision. It is the context of the entire Bible. If Spiritual Circumcision were not the focus of the entire Bible, then the Bible is useless. Spiritual Circumcision is the Purpose of Christ, it is the Work of Christ, and this Work produces the Holy Effect of Christ.
You must get this established in your mind if you want to have a proper view of Scripture.
Romans 12:2 speaks of Transformation. When a person is Transformed, this will indicate if a person has been redeemed of the Adamic Curse as described in Romans chapter 5. If a person has been lifted of the evil impact of the Mind of the Devil and replaced with the Mind of Christ, the changed life is dramatic and undeniable.
Do you have a Transformation story that you've always been excited to speak of? Adam and Eve went from pure thinking to corrupt thinking and they have a story to tell of that Transformation. It is just as dramatic for the one who has been saved, for their mind Transforms from corrupt thinking to a source of Divine and Pure thinking, and it increases more and more to reflect the Glory of God. Do you recall when that dramatic change began within you? If so, are you willing to outline your past behavior and how you have permanently changed?
Do you have a Transformation story that you've always been excited to speak of? Adam and Eve went from pure thinking to corrupt thinking and they have a story to tell of that Transformation. It is just as dramatic for the one who has been saved, for their mind Transforms from corrupt thinking to a source of Divine and Pure thinking, and it increases more and more to reflect the Glory of God. Do you recall when that dramatic change began within you? If so, are you willing to outline your past behavior and how you have permanently changed?
Baptism is Required
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, calling on the name of the Lord.and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,
Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth
.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.
Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.
Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.
Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.
Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).
Yet, you agreed with me on another thread:
Apr 16, 2022
#1,134
peldom10 said:
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
I said:
This "water" refers to physical childbirth.
One must be born of the flesh AND of the spirit. This is not water baptism.
Apr 16, 2022
#1,134
peldom10 said:
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
I said:
This "water" refers to physical childbirth.
One must be born of the flesh AND of the spirit. This is not water baptism.
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FreeGrace2 said:
However, John 4:1-2 clarifies 3:22.
1 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—
2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
It helps to read enough of the context to understand individual verses.
Please explain how this is relevant.
In fact, this verse has nothing to do with John 3:22 and 41-2. Acts 2:38 was specifically FOR those who actively participated in the crucifixion, after having SEEN the miracles of Jesus. What Peter told that crowd doesn't apply to everyone. It was also the very beginning of the church. The receiving of the Holy Spirit wasn't uniform then.
You made a big point that Jesus baptized. I gave you clarifying verses that showed that He didn't.
However, John 4:1-2 clarifies 3:22.
1 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—
2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
It helps to read enough of the context to understand individual verses.
Please explain how this is relevant.
In fact, this verse has nothing to do with John 3:22 and 41-2. Acts 2:38 was specifically FOR those who actively participated in the crucifixion, after having SEEN the miracles of Jesus. What Peter told that crowd doesn't apply to everyone. It was also the very beginning of the church. The receiving of the Holy Spirit wasn't uniform then.
You made a big point that Jesus baptized. I gave you clarifying verses that showed that He didn't.
FreeGrace2 said:
Happy to share again.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
The first resurrection is for the saved; those who belong to Him. That's how to get to the first resurrection; belong to Him.
Every believer should easily understand how to "belong to Him". It is through faith in Him.
The ONLY ACTION that links directly to resurrection is "faith in Christ". Do you not agree?
Are you asking what action causes resurrection? Seems so. Please clarify.
I don't see that. You acknowledge that water baptism isn't necessary for salvation, but is for resurrection? I don't see how that makes sense.
Could you please answer the question about those saved believers who never were water baptized? If they don't get resurrection bodies, where do they live forever?
Well, you are seeing things that I do not see. Please answer my question to help me further understand your thinking.
Thanks.
Happy to share again.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
The first resurrection is for the saved; those who belong to Him. That's how to get to the first resurrection; belong to Him.
Every believer should easily understand how to "belong to Him". It is through faith in Him.
The ONLY ACTION that links directly to resurrection is "faith in Christ". Do you not agree?
Are you asking what action causes resurrection? Seems so. Please clarify.
I don't see that. You acknowledge that water baptism isn't necessary for salvation, but is for resurrection? I don't see how that makes sense.
Could you please answer the question about those saved believers who never were water baptized? If they don't get resurrection bodies, where do they live forever?
Well, you are seeing things that I do not see. Please answer my question to help me further understand your thinking.
Thanks.
Just because water baptism and resurrection are mentioned in one verse means there is some kind of cause and effect. That would come from specific wording, and there is no specific words that would lead to such a conclusion.
And Paul was describing baptism by proxy, which would have NO effect on those already dead, and being baptised for.
You have created a "theory" without justification. That could be called an abberation.
There is nothing literally to "take". Unless you are real comfortable with baptism by proxy, which I see as impossible to explain.
Are there any other examples of "something" by proxy in Scripture?
Neither side is resisting God's Spirit, so let's not create charges out of thin air.
It's about understanding what was said. And what was said is about baptism by proxy, which isn't found ANYWHERE else in Scripture.
The closest thing to that is the RCC practice of infant baptism. The Bible says believers are to be immersed. I guess the Catholics are trying to get ahead of the process by baptism before salvation.
Doesn't work that way, of course. Neither does baptism by proxy.
And Paul was describing baptism by proxy, which would have NO effect on those already dead, and being baptised for.
You have created a "theory" without justification. That could be called an abberation.
There is nothing literally to "take". Unless you are real comfortable with baptism by proxy, which I see as impossible to explain.
Are there any other examples of "something" by proxy in Scripture?
Neither side is resisting God's Spirit, so let's not create charges out of thin air.
It's about understanding what was said. And what was said is about baptism by proxy, which isn't found ANYWHERE else in Scripture.
The closest thing to that is the RCC practice of infant baptism. The Bible says believers are to be immersed. I guess the Catholics are trying to get ahead of the process by baptism before salvation.
Doesn't work that way, of course. Neither does baptism by proxy.
FreeGrace2 said:
This is not honest. You quoted only part of the verse. What you left out actually refutes your claim.
and this (literal) water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
That is the whole verse, which shows that water baptism SYMBOLIZES the (Holy Spirit) baptism that now saves you.
No verse says that. What verse do you think says this??
They aren't linked at all. We receive God's Spirit by faith. Gal 3:2,5 says so plainly.
Please don't equate what happened at Jesus' baptism with the believer's baptism. They are quite different.
This is not honest. You quoted only part of the verse. What you left out actually refutes your claim.
and this (literal) water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
That is the whole verse, which shows that water baptism SYMBOLIZES the (Holy Spirit) baptism that now saves you.
No verse says that. What verse do you think says this??
They aren't linked at all. We receive God's Spirit by faith. Gal 3:2,5 says so plainly.
Please don't equate what happened at Jesus' baptism with the believer's baptism. They are quite different.
