Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

[Goliath]

The problem....people simply don't know how God uses the Law of Christ, to heal our hearts, which is what must happen if we are to be saved.
Why don't people understand this?
Because many church doctrines teach against the Law, when they misinterpret Pauls teaching, We are not under Law. This puts the believer, who trusts in these teachings, at odds with God.

What do I mean when I say, It is keeping Gods Law which brings about our Salvation?
I will explain Pauls marriage analogy in (Romans 7), to try and bring some understanding.

In the analogy Pauls focus is on these points...The husband, The Law, The Woman, Adultery, and...Death Of the husband.
For the woman who hath a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of the husband. So then, if while her husband liveth she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
(Romans 7:2-3)
Who is the husband?
It's The sinful nature we are all born into.
Who is the Woman?
A husband back in those days looked upon her husband as her master.
“Verily, verily I say unto you, whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
(John 8:34)
If Everyone who commits sin, is a servant of sin, they are the afore mentioned woman, married to the sinful nature.
What is the Law of the Husband?
It's to sin, and not do what is opposite of sin, which is righteous.
What is the adultery which brings about the death of the Husband/sinful nature?
Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
(Romans 6:16)
Keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ...these acts of righteousness, are looked at as Adultery because they are Acts of Love, though we belong to another. Isn't that what people do who commit Adultery?
He that hath My commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me; and he that loveth Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him.”
(John 14:21)
As I hope you can all see...it is obedience to Christ/adultery to sinful nature which causes us to die to sin, so we can belong to Christ. That adultery to which we must be obedient....also called the Law of Christ.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:6-7)

 

[Gideon300]

The problem....people simply don't know how God uses the Law of Christ, to heal our hearts, which is what must happen if we are to be saved.
Why don't people understand this?
Because many church doctrines teach against the Law, when they misinterpret Pauls teaching, We are not under Law. This puts the believer, who trusts in these teachings, at odds with God.

What do I mean when I say, It is keeping Gods Law which brings about our Salvation?
I will explain Pauls marriage analogy in (Romans 7), to try and bring some understanding.

In the analogy Pauls focus is on these points...The husband, The Law, The Woman, Adultery, and...Death Of the husband.
For the woman who hath a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of the husband. So then, if while her husband liveth she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
(Romans 7:2-3)
Who is the husband?
It's The sinful nature we are all born into.
Who is the Woman?
A husband back in those days looked upon her husband as her master.
“Verily, verily I say unto you, whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
(John 8:34)
If Everyone who commits sin, is a servant of sin, they are the afore mentioned woman, married to the sinful nature.
What is the Law of the Husband?
It's to sin, and not do what is opposite of sin, which is righteous.
What is the adultery which brings about the death of the Husband/sinful nature?
Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
(Romans 6:16)
Keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ...these acts of righteousness, are looked at as Adultery because they are Acts of Love, though we belong to another. Isn't that what people do who commit Adultery?
He that hath My commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me; and he that loveth Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him.”
(John 14:21)
As I hope you can all see...it is obedience to Christ/adultery to sinful nature which causes us to die to sin, so we can belong to Christ. That adultery to which we must be obedient....also called the Law of Christ.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:6-7)

You are confused and your understanding of God's word is incorrect. You are also ignorant of the difference between the instant forgiveness of sin and being born again, and the progressive salvation of the soul. That is a common mistake that many Christians make. There is a lack of teaching on the subject and few people see it for themselves. I suggest that you read Watchman Nee, "The Salvation of the Soul". It will help you greatly.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How we look at His word can effect how we believe. You say Paul I saw sweet Holy Spirit. There is no difference. All Paul taught was what Christ showed him. Christ was the foundation. It all goes together.. flows..

yeah it’s when people teach that it’s a different gospel is where the error comes in and many do that some see this and don’t want to hear it

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so they go to Paul’s epistles where it can be ignored by using different more revealed language

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s saying the same thing “ unless you stop living after the lusts of the flesh you will perish. “


Paul’s language is just coming from an understanding of the gospel and spirit v flesh doctrine Jesus began teaching

“It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

Paul tells us the flesh and it’s works we find out it’s sin

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pauls Message regarding continuing in sin is no different than Jesus message it just sounds different because Paul is speaking with revelation Jesus opened up his understanding so the words sounds like Jesus words spirit v flesh

Paul has a lot of fans because they’ve been taught he preached a different gospel that doesn’t require one to accept Jesus teachings but Paul agreed with everything Jesus taught

 

[Goliath]

You are confused and your understanding of God's word is incorrect. You are also ignorant of the difference between the instant forgiveness of sin and being born again, and the progressive salvation of the soul. That is a common mistake that many Christians make. There is a lack of teaching on the subject and few people see it for themselves. I suggest that you read Watchman Nee, "The Salvation of the Soul". It will help you greatly.

You read watchman nee..I'll read the bible.

 

[Magenta]

You read watchman nee..I'll read the bible.

You read nothing but the Bible? Or is it you think if someone else had read anything
besides the Bible, it means they have never read the Bible? Both positions seem suspect.

 

[Goliath]

You read nothing but the Bible? Or is it you think if someone else had read anything
besides the Bible, it means they have never read the Bible? Both positions seem suspect.

I have read Nee, Spugeon, Henry, Wesley...and the rest. But not to turn to a different gospel than the one Christ taught his disciples. I read them, to see how they twist and mold Pauls epistles into a teaching not taught by Jesus or anyone of his disciples. I prefer a doctrine which is supported by Gods Holy Spirit, one in which the believer actually experiences Gods Grace in their life when they follow his teachings. So They don't need to simply rely my words, or anyone else's.

The false teacher is easily identified by two common errors in their teachings. One is they have no witnesses to what they say Paul is teaching. And two....every one of their salvation teachings are against or opposed to what Jesus taught. Which is an easy way for anyone to identify the teaching which come from the Anti-Christ, for that's what the prefix means...to be Opposed to.

 

[Magenta]

I have read Nee, Spugeon, Henry, Wesley...and the rest. But not to turn to a different gospel than the one Christ taught his disciples. I read them, to see how they twist and mold Pauls epistles into a teaching not taught by Jesus or anyone of his disciples. I prefer a doctrine which is supported by Gods Holy Spirit, one in which the believer actually experiences Gods Grace in their life when they follow his teachings. So They don't need to simply rely my words, or anyone else's.

The false teacher is easily identified by two common errors in their teachings. One is they have no witnesses to what they say Paul is teaching. And two....every one of their salvation teachings are against or opposed to what Jesus taught. Which is an easy way for anyone to identify the teaching which come from the Anti-Christ, for that's what the prefix means...to be Opposed to.

I do not understand what you mean to say by what I bolded above...

Could you please explain?

 

[Goliath]

I do not understand what you mean to say by what I bolded above...

Could you please explain?

Meaning they teach Paul without corroboration from any other teacher in the Bible. Show me where Jesus or any one of his disciples taught, what these teachers day Paul taught. Paul himself refutes these, "We are not under the Law" teachings throughout (Romans 2), which a false teacher will not touch, because they prove it a false teaching.

 

[Magenta]

Meaning they teach Paul without corroboration from any other teacher in the Bible. Show me where Jesus or any one of his disciples taught, what these teachers day Paul taught. Paul himself refutes these, "We are not under the Law" teachings throughout (Romans 2), which a false teacher will not touch, because they prove it a false teaching.

James 2:23 corroborates that faith counts as righteousness.

and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and
it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God.

Galatians 3:22-25

 

[Inquisitor]

I find many church doctrines are founded solely upon Paul's epistles, leaving the teachings of Jesus Christ as a mere footnote. One would think, they believe Paul is their savior, and Jesus the apostle of Paul. But worse yet, those who trust in these teachings are like blind men walking in the desert.

Paul is a great teacher...and one of my favorites, but teaching Paul without founding his teachings on what Christ taught his disciples, is like trying to teach Algebra to someone who doesn't know how to Add and Subtract. This is why the mainstream churches teach, the Christian is not under Gods Law, simply because Paul taught, "We are not under Law, we are under Grace." When it is this very Law which brings the believer their salvation.

I agree, understanding what Jesus told the Jews compared with what Paul told the Gentiles. Does lead to a divide within Christianity.

We are not under Law, we are under Grace.

That is a fact.

We are saved by grace through faith!

 

[LoveBrokeThru]

I find many church doctrines are founded solely upon Paul's epistles, leaving the teachings of Jesus Christ as a mere footnote.

Real Christians, (those who are born again, and not just water baptized and think they are saved) know that Jesus called Paul to be the "apostle to the gentiles".
Just Him.
And Real Christians, know that in the "time of the Gentiles".........is NOT when Jesus lived, so, what He talked about, related to the "house of Israel", primarily......while what Paul talks about and teaches, is what we are to understand, believe, and teach, in the "time of the Gentiles".
So, that is why "Pauline Theology", is the correct doctrine for the "time of the Gentiles", and that is why Jesus gave to Paul, the "Gospel of the Grace of God", and not anything about water, or works.
This is why Paul teaches...>"Christ sent me NOT to water baptize".
See that?
He isn't saying you are not to be water baptized.....but rather he is showing you what NOT to place your faith in, so that you end up lost, water baptized, and never born again and go to Hell when you die.

The Doctrine of "Salvation by GRACE through faith", ONLY came from Paul, who was taught it by Christ Himself.

So, that, among many other reasons is why a real christian will read..........."be a follower of me, as i follow Christ",.....and understand what Paul is teaching you., and you will do it.

 

[gb9]

Real Christians, (those who are born again, and not just water baptized and think they are saved) know that Jesus called Paul to be the "apostle to the gentiles".
Just Him.
And Real Christians, know that in the "time of the Gentiles".........is NOT when Jesus lived, so, what He talked about, related to the "house of Israel", primarily......while what Paul talks about and teaches, is what we are to understand, believe, and teach, in the "time of the Gentiles".
So, that is why "Pauline Theology", is the correct doctrine for the "time of the Gentiles", and that is why Jesus gave to Paul, the "Gospel of the Grace of God", and not anything about water, or works.
This is why Paul teaches...>"Christ sent me NOT to water baptize".
See that?
He isn't saying you are not to be water baptized.....but rather he is showing you what NOT to place your faith in, so that you end up lost, water baptized, and never born again and go to Hell when you die.

The Doctrine of "Salvation by GRACE through faith", ONLY came from Paul, who was taught it by Christ Himself.

So, that, among many other reasons is why a real christian will read..........."be a follower of me, as i follow Christ",.....and understand what Paul is teaching you., and you will do it.

goliath is just another judeaizer trying to make Paul contradict Christ.

seen a lot of them on here over the years.

 

[glen55]

I find many church doctrines are founded solely upon Paul's epistles, leaving the teachings of Jesus Christ as a mere footnote. One would think, they believe Paul is their savior, and Jesus the apostle of Paul. But worse yet, those who trust in these teachings are like blind men walking in the desert.

Paul is a great teacher...and one of my favorites, but teaching Paul without founding his teachings on what Christ taught his disciples, is like trying to teach Algebra to someone who doesn't know how to Add and Subtract. This is why the mainstream churches teach, the Christian is not under Gods Law, simply because Paul taught, "We are not under Law, we are under Grace." When it is this very Law which brings the believer their salvation.

The possible reason is the mention of old wine being still used when your introduced to new wine and being mixed by a lot of Bondages to Hagar who is told to eliminate here teaching flesh required to Cast.

Gal 4: 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Freedom is a pure teaching with new wine that isn't based on old wine at all, .Peter who Paul challenged to his mixing with old wine rules still present in Jerusalem's leaders still needing laws of being still practiced to Moses teachings.
The facts of two gospels is one is still majoring them together, the pure one is new wine born after the flesh, that persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Which means we wrestle inside ourselves with Christ in us, does Christ be born as fully awake or still weak to flesh still needing old wine doubt about yourself, study by flesh intelligent being great but least in freedom.

 

[soberxp]

My understanding is that such as adultery is the reasons why you are not free, you will keep asking for things of desire,This becomes a slave to sin,this is called under the law.
However, those who believe in Jesus and reborn are not slaves of sin,The righteous are no longer under the law, cuz The righteous are set free in law.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I find many church doctrines are founded solely upon Paul's epistles, leaving the teachings of Jesus Christ as a mere footnote. One would think, they believe Paul is their savior, and Jesus the apostle of Paul. But worse yet, those who trust in these teachings are like blind men walking in the desert.

Paul is a great teacher...and one of my favorites, but teaching Paul without founding his teachings on what Christ taught his disciples, is like trying to teach Algebra to someone who doesn't know how to Add and Subtract. This is why the mainstream churches teach, the Christian is not under Gods Law, simply because Paul taught, "We are not under Law, we are under Grace." When it is this very Law which brings the believer their salvation.

Simple, the answer is two words: Sales Pitch. The four gospels require you to understand a lot of Torah and prophecies regarding the messiah from the OT, pastors have to explain a lot of the cultural background before they could dive into the passage. Compared to that, Paul's teachings can be easily developed into doctrines for the congregation to follow.

Also, most of the audience are lukewarm Laodiceans who feel entitled to God's grace and boast of their wealth, even though they're spiritually poor. Among the seven churches this is the only one that boasts before the Lord, and also the only one that the Lord has zero good thing to give a thumbs up to, and that's us, we have rock concert worship session, TED talk sermons and self-help guru pastors. Many are fans, but few are disciples. The unoffocial religion among most churches is known as "therapeutic moralistic deism" instead of christianity.

 

[Gideon300]

You read watchman nee..I'll read the bible.

Sure, but you are coming to the wrong conclusions. God placed Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers in the church for a reason. If you would climb down from your religious high horse, you would maybe learn something. From what you've said so far, you appear to be unteachable. And that is a shame. A disciple is one who is taught. If you are unteachable, you are not able to be a disciple.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

yeah it’s when people teach that it’s a different gospel is where the error comes in and many do that some see this and don’t want to hear it

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so they go to Paul’s epistles where it can be ignored by using different more revealed language

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s saying the same thing “ unless you stop living after the lusts of the flesh you will perish. “


Paul’s language is just coming from an understanding of the gospel and spirit v flesh doctrine Jesus began teaching

“It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

Paul tells us the flesh and it’s works we find out it’s sin

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pauls Message regarding continuing in sin is no different than Jesus message it just sounds different because Paul is speaking with revelation Jesus opened up his understanding so the words sounds like Jesus words spirit v flesh

Paul has a lot of fans because they’ve been taught he preached a different gospel that doesn’t require one to accept Jesus teachings but Paul agreed with everything Jesus taught

Repent is not a one and done deal. It's a spiritual struggle for a lifetime known as the sanctification process, it's like the angel and the devil on your shoulders pulling you toward opposite directions, and Paul talked about that in Galatians using Isaac and Ishmael to illustrate this struggle between the spirit and the flesh. In Jesus's words, this is the unclean spirit coming back to reclaim his old house, and oftentimes he returns with more unclean spirits. This is one aspect in Christianity that I don't feel related to very much, that how could Christians rejoice over all situations under all circumstances while suffering from this "withdrawal symptom"? You know, especially when I'm stressed and weary, in my weakest moment, that's when I face the strongest temptation of backsliding.

 

[Goliath]

Sure, but you are coming to the wrong conclusions. God placed Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers in the church for a reason. .

I live in a small town and we have 35 Christian churches. They are full of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers. They do not come together and worship as one, because they are divided by what they believe to be the Truth. Since there is but one Truth, if one of these churches happens to have that truth, that would mean 34 of them are false doctrines. Which of these Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers did God place?

 

[Evmur]

I have read Nee, Spugeon, Henry, Wesley...and the rest. But not to turn to a different gospel than the one Christ taught his disciples. I read them, to see how they twist and mold Pauls epistles into a teaching not taught by Jesus or anyone of his disciples. I prefer a doctrine which is supported by Gods Holy Spirit, one in which the believer actually experiences Gods Grace in their life when they follow his teachings. So They don't need to simply rely my words, or anyone else's.

The false teacher is easily identified by two common errors in their teachings. One is they have no witnesses to what they say Paul is teaching. And two....every one of their salvation teachings are against or opposed to what Jesus taught. Which is an easy way for anyone to identify the teaching which come from the Anti-Christ, for that's what the prefix means...to be Opposed to.

Folks have it in reverse, it's Jesus who taught the same doctrine as Paul against the general understanding of the Jews. Paul reads Christ correctly, the other Jews not so much.

Jesus taught salvation by grace alone through faith and that not of yourself.

"If any man heareth My word and believeth on Him that sent Me hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life."

That is Paul's doctrine.

All who are under the law will be judged by the law ... we are passed over from judgement.

 

[Evmur]

If the law had anything at all to do with salvation Paul would have preached the law. He did not. The works we do, if we do any work, we do by the indwelling Spirit of the Living God.