Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[Evmur]

What I find very ironic is how a lot of Pentecostals and Charismatics call people who don't believe their so-called signs and wonders "Pharisees." But it was the Pharisees who loved making a big show in front of people to impress them.

but you believe in signs and wonders, you said so. You just like the people who walk in them.

The Pharisees did not stone Jesus because of what He did but because of what He claimed to be.

 

[Magenta]

???

Prodigal son story... older brother jealous and resentful of younger's reception upon his return.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I have an issue with any Church calling itself a "charismatic/Pentecostal" Church to begin with. Self-imposed denominationism never did sit well with me. Look at me I'm special???

I totally agree; however, there are some here who think denominations are a good idea.

 

[Evmur]

Hornet-guy does not have an improper attitude towards tongues IMO. Because he does not deny them. He is not a ceassionist either.

It's just that he is (like I am) calling out the fake infantile babbling so-called tounges as a fraud.

What about the dry barren sermons that are preached in so many churches? The long onerous formal prayers? the joyless, lifeless hymn singing .... do things grieve you at all?

 

[Evmur]

Prodigal son story... older brother jealous and resentful of younger's reception upon his return.

When he puts ??? or says I don't understand it is because the arrow has gone home.

 

[ResidentAlien]

When he puts ??? or says I don't understand it is because the arrow has gone home.

No, it means you're making absolutely no sense. I don't know if the arrow went home or not.

 

[Evmur]

I totally agree; however, there are some here who think denominations are a good idea.

I agree with Paul who decried factions but yet saw them as necessary for the truth to come forth.

 

[kaylagrl]

I have an issue with any Church calling itself a "charismatic/Pentecostal" Church to begin with. Self-imposed denominationism never did sit well with me. Look at me I'm special???

In the past 20 or so years that has changed, the names don't tell you what denomination. I don't like it! I'm afraid I'm gonna trip into a snake handlin' church here in the south and I can tell you they will hear language like they have never heard before! I may invent a few new ones! But imagine if you think you're headed into a nice, quiet Baptist church and get inside a it's Pentecostal!! Wouldn't you rather know up front what church you are attending? lol

On the other hand I have seen some very good Pentecostal Churches proclaiming/teaching good sound doctrine. If they would just eliminate the babbling fake tongues and continual "seeking after a sign" I would have no problem attending.

I wouldn't call myself a sign seeker, feathers from heaven, gold in the teeth. I do expect God to keep His promises, I do believe there can be a confirmation, some would see that as a sign. I don't seek it, but if it happens I accept it with caution and move on until I receive clarity.

 

[hornetguy]

you would have the Pentecostals trying to pass themselves off as decent respectable evangelicals? then you would accuse them of being sly.

This is the attitude that turns so many people off toward pentecostals.... "we are special, and we will tell you so..."

Are you saying that pentecostals are NOT decent, respectable, and evangelical? I think that ALL believers are supposed to be those things.
When Paul preached to the believers in the upper room, until midnight, was there any mention of "demonstrations of the Holy Ghost" during the preaching? The only demonstration was after the preaching when Paul brought Eutychus back to life.
Why do you feel the need for there to be these kinds of demonstrations? Is it not enough to KNOW that the Spirit is there, in you and among you? Why do you feel the need for some kind of "demonstration" ?

 

[cv5]

Prodigal son story... older brother jealous and resentful of younger's reception upon his return.

And the capstone of that story is that it was the older brother who ended up being the prodigal.

 

[cv5]

What about the dry barren sermons that are preached in so many churches? The long onerous formal prayers? the joyless, lifeless hymn singing .... do things grieve you at all?

Absolutely these things grieve me. Immensely in fact. Truth be told they grieve me as much as the fake babbling bogus tongues.

I have to tell you that I attended one so-called Pentecostal Church service.....where the pastor/family only spoke Spanish exclusively. And never once spoke one word of Scripture. Never quoted the Bible. Absolutely zero teaching ministry. No Bible studies. All of it was a crazy crashing family bandstand, endless screaming/crying/shouting, slayinging in the Spirit and fake tongues.

The "attendees" were apx 50-50 split English Spanish. The English speakers had no idea of what he was saying to begin with. They were there strictly to see the carnival sideshow spectacle and that's it. And evidently they thought it was real and legitimate. As far as I could tell anyways.

I even participated in the slaying in the Spirit scam. And believe it or not I actually fell over just keep up appearances and ensure the "Pastor" didn't embarrass himself.

Yes it was awful. Very very awful. And no I never went back.

BTW.......by and large the worst "Churches" are loosly charismatic Pentecostal ripoff Churches.
$$$$$$$Blab it and grab it. Word faith heretics. Prosperity gospel apostates. Christian psychobabble$$$$$$

Bearing your Cross, persecution, privation and suffering for the word of God and for Christs' sake? You'll never ever hear that in one of those "Churches". Such talk is anathema to them. Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, T.D. Jakes.......the list is endless.

 

[Oblio]

I walked into a church I knew nothing about. After singing and listening to some guy talk, we were invited to go up front. I made sure that I was at the back of the crowd as they went forward. But they didn't line up in single file. This put me on one end of the line of people standing side by side. I was the first person to get prayed for!
The guy standing in front of me lightly touched my shirt. It was like a full-grown man had drop-kicked me in the chest! I barely stayed on my feet. I thought I'd fall and hurt myself. I hadn't realized that someone was behind me. He said, "Relax." So I did. The guy in front of me lightly touched my shirt. I got knocked over by an invisible force.
When I opened my eyes, I saw that they had moved on. I was horrified. I believed that they had moved on because I fell over. I thought that they thought I was a nut because I believed that only nuts fell over. I was embarrassed when I saw it on T.V. I tried to get up off the floor but I couldn't! I was stuck! I don't think I'd ever been more embarrassed in my life. I finally got up.
I was forced to rethink my position on some things. The bottom line is that God did that to me. This was the end result of me earnestly seeking Him for 4 months. I didn't even mention the visions that the Lord gave me at this time.
I was so wrong about it. But it is so easily misused and abused. I'm not nearly as quick to judge this sort of thing anymore. I've learned that the natural man is often repulsed by this foolishness. Even when it is God!

 

[cv5]

Absolutely these things grieve me. Immensely in fact. Truth be told they grieve me as much as the fake babbling bogus tongues.

I have to tell you that I attended one so-called Pentecostal Church service.....where the pastor/family only spoke Spanish exclusively. And never once spoke one word of Scripture. Never quoted the Bible. Absolutely zero teaching ministry. No Bible studies. All of it was a crazy crashing family bandstand, endless screaming/crying/shouting, slayinging in the Spirit and fake tongues.

The "attendees" were apx 50-50 split English Spanish. The English speakers had no idea of what he was saying to begin with. They were there strictly to see the carnival sideshow spectacle and that's it. And evidently they thought it was real and legitimate. As far as I could tell anyways.

I even participated in the slaying in the Spirit scam. And believe it or not I actually fell over just keep up appearances and ensure the "Pastor" didn't embarrass himself.

Yes it was awful. Very very awful. And no I never went back.

BTW.......by and large the worst "Churches" are loosly charismatic Pentecostal ripoff Churches.
$$$$$$$Blab it and grab it. Word faith heretics. Prosperity gospel apostates. Christian psychobabble$$$$$$

Bearing your Cross, persecution, privation and suffering for the word of God and for Christs' sake? You'll never ever hear that in one of those "Churches". Such talk is anathema to them. Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, T.D. Jakes.......the list is endless.

Denying self vs indulging/exulting self...

 

[cv5]

Prodigal son story... older brother jealous and resentful of younger's reception upon his return.

Key phrases:
1st son "give me"
Other son "you never gave me"

 

[Amanuensis]

I have an issue with any Church calling itself a "charismatic/Pentecostal" Church to begin with. Self-imposed denominationism never did sit well with me. Look at me I'm special???

Back in the day (way back) I heard people tell me that they would never attended anything OTHER than a hardcore Pentecostal Church. And I hate to say this but these facilities seem to me be some of the most shifty shady scammy Churches in the neighborhood. I attended a couple and never went back. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing.....IMO.

On the other hand I have seen some very good Pentecostal Churches proclaiming/teaching good sound doctrine. If they would just eliminate the babbling fake tongues and continual "seeking after a sign" I would have no problem attending.

I find Charismatic churches to be the place where the real Christians are at.

We all have our opinions.

 

[Edify]

I invite you, as I have invited others, to show your tongues for examination. That's the middle line of understanding. As far as you keep it in the realm of secrecy, and hide behind your traditional interpretation of scripture, we'll never meet.

That is a trap, a catch 22.
Acts 2: 1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Those that demand evidence of spiritual gifts already know this. So they say Pentecostals can't prove it. If one of them began speaking like it, they would instantly declare them a fraud for doing so.
A catch 22.

Tell me, do you think the Holy Spirit would put on a useless show just for you?
No one with the gifts can use them at-will. Those that do are frauds.

 

[ResidentAlien]

No one with the gifts can use them at-will. Those that do are frauds.

This isn't true. Read 1 Corinthians 14. "God is not the author of confusion."

 

[Edify]

I find Charismatic churches to be the place where the real Christians are at.

I don't. Many today are frauds, They claim the power but don't show the fruit.
Mind you, I'm not against the movement. Some are real.
What many christians don't understand is both the Pentecostal & charismatic movements Have been under a great deal of spiritual warfare.
The church I was saved in had a mother & 2 daughters in it who were demon possessed. They wrecked havoc on the church until another pastor years later had a exorcism service & cast the devil out of one of the daughters. Immediately the other 2 left.
We're not special above others. There's not a denomination I know that doesn't have its own fakes in it.
Gays behind the pulpit - spiritual warfare few want to talk about. Liberal takeovers of conservative churches in their leadership... all spiritual warfare. Those who don't think it's happening in their church are blind, not realizing it's already happened.
You guys that think Pentecostalism is a bunch of hoopla, sweep around your own denominational back door & see what pops up.
You would fear & tremble at what you find.

 

[hornetguy]

I find Charismatic churches to be the place where the real Christians are at.

Again.... the offensive "holier than you" attitude that causes so much heartburn.

I don't remember who, in this thread stated emphatically that pentecostals DON'T believe that, and that they are very accepting of those that do not speak in tongues.... you guys just don't seem to get it.... or maybe you do, and you actually believe that way.

 

[Edify]

This isn't true. Read 1 Corinthians 14. "God is not the author of confusion."

Have you not read that Jesus did NOTHING of himself, doing only what the Father said & did? Neither can we, unless the Head of the church leads us to do so.
You don't understand because you can't discern it.
In Acts 2, many think Peter's short sermon got 3000 people saved. Not entirely true.
The 120 in the upper room illustrated true prophetic utterance, & the Holy Spirit allowed them to speak it in the multinational Jews' languages. This happen to unbelievers as a sign, & Peter explained what they were doing was fulfilling Joel's prophecy from the OT.
The first Jewish revival was aroung a half an hour, & 3000 people was saved, all according to God's order He set up Himself.

The naysayers don't want this moving of the Spirit upon them. They have witnessed the fakes, & now believe it's all hogwash.
Make up your minds... either we Pentecostals are all going to Hell for knowingly mocking the Spirit, or the naysayers are because they judge & mock God's church & refuse the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
It's obvious someone needs to repent before it's too late.
Just how sure are you, naysayer, that's it's not you?