Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[kaylagrl]

I have no problem with tongues trust me. It's just that I never heard or seen authentic legitimate tongues in 25 years. Not even close not even a little bit.

The point is legitimate authentic tongues are both miraculous and irrefutable. The stuff that I (up to this point) have heard was neither of those. It was childish incoherent self-deluded babbling. Definitely.

I totally agree with your last statement. I haven't attended a Pentecostal church myself for the last several years. Perhaps it's simply the time we are living in. I have at times experienced both. I agree that discernment will let you know right away what is genuine. I recall years ago we had a wonderful pastor when I was growing up. There was a problem with an older lady in the church, that every time her unsaved family would come, she would have a "tongues message". He was a very serious pastor about order in the church. He hauled her in his office and told her to cease and desist. But she was very good at playing the victim. I think she got his message and stopped. The thing is , she was known as a horrible gossip. Her heart was right, she wanted her family saved, she was just doing it in the wrong way.

 

[DavidTree]

Yeah.... I've heard that as well. Also, "if you prayed to receive the Spirit, and didn't start speaking in tongues, you either (a) didn't pray hard enough, or (b) you weren't 'sincere' enough"
It's a pretty easy fall-back position.
and, if that is the case, then why does Paul say in Corinthians.... "22 So then, tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; "

FYI, i do not question your faith and love of the Lord Jesus Christ and neither should anyone call God's word B.S.

Now if someone is twisting Scripture like jw's and those who say "in the beginning the Word was a god" = this you can call B.S.

 

[peldom10]

God does not reveal anything [usually] to unbelief.

...oh I believe you need to check that conclusion....God will use any means of getting a sinners' attention because as scripture says ......He wishes that not one is lost........the more hardened the heart ......the more intense the experience that may be required...often. Some will not respond....at all.

We all need to think Him for that ...forever.

 

[shittim]

That's funny.... I don't consider myself to be an "unbeliever"... and you don't know me well enough to insinuate that...

I believe I stated that in one of my previous comments.... if I am meant to have tongues, I'm sure I will have them. I am trusting the Spirit to lead me where He wills.... as I have been for about 57 years now, since baptism.

I have the impression you already can pray in the Divine prayer language, you just aren't using it.
In your prayer to Him, tell Him you give Him control of the words that come out of your mouth and then pray, when you yield to Him, He will confirm to you by pouring out Spirit.
There is no better, stronger, faster, way to walk in His power and blessing that I know.
bless you brother

 

[shittim]

I totally agree with your last statement. I haven't attended a Pentecostal church myself for the last several years. Perhaps it's simply the time we are living in. I have at times experienced both. I agree that discernment will let you know right away what is genuine. I recall years ago we had a wonderful pastor when I was growing up. There was a problem with an older lady in the church, that every time her unsaved family would come, she would have a "tongues message". He was a very serious pastor about order in the church. He hauled her in his office and told her to cease and desist. But she was very good at playing the victim. I think she got his message and stopped. The thing is , she was known as a horrible gossip. Her heart was right, she wanted her family saved, she was just doing it in the wrong way.

That's a big one isn't it? Wanting our loved ones saved so much we try to do His work by our own hands.
bless you sis

 

[hornetguy]

God searches and knows our hearts. Many people are praying in unbelief, seeking evidence from God and HE will not grant them their desire since it is not in faith according to His word.

as I said, that's an easy fall-back position. How do YOU know what God will or will not grant? Pure supposition on your part.
Moses asked for "signs", and God gave them... God gives "signs" all the time.... remember Pharoah? He was shown a few signs. Signs are to CONVINCE doubters, unbelievers.... remember Thomas, after Jesus rose?

Even then there were only a few who would believe because "God added daily to the church such as should be saved."

well, not so much. Seems like there were 3000 or so saved at Pentecost... and whole households were becoming believers... remember Cornelius? The church was growing so fast, it scared the ruling Jewish leaders.... that doesn't sound to me like "only a few" were believing...

 

[Amanuensis]

and, if that is the case, then why does Paul say in Corinthians.... "22 So then, tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; "

Paul was quoting Isaiah. 21It is written in the Law: “By strange tongues and foreign lips I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to Me, says the Lord.” 22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers.

It was prophesied that God was going to give this gift and even though He did this they would not believe. So it is a sign to unbelievers as most other signs were, another reason why they will have no excuse in the day of judgment.

 

[DavidTree]

as I said, that's an easy fall-back position. How do YOU know what God will or will not grant? Pure supposition on your part.
Moses asked for "signs", and God gave them... God gives "signs" all the time.... remember Pharoah? He was shown a few signs. Signs are to CONVINCE doubters, unbelievers.... remember Thomas, after Jesus rose?


well, not so much. Seems like there were 3000 or so saved at Pentecost... and whole households were becoming believers... remember Cornelius? The church was growing so fast, it scared the ruling Jewish leaders.... that doesn't sound to me like "only a few" were believing...

Here is the BIG NEWS for you and me and all who Believe = in Two Parts make the Whole

Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed,
Because His compassions fail not.
They are new every morning;
Great is Your faithfulness.
“The Lord is my portion,” says my soul,
“Therefore I hope in Him!”

The Lord is good to those who wait for Him,
To the soul who seeks Him.
It is good that one should hope and wait quietly
For the salvation of the Lord.

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God,

Blessings from the LORD be upon you Today my Brother

 

[Amanuensis]

I wonder if someone were to visit Charismatic churches in their area what they would actually find. Is there a problem? Would they even witness anyone speaking in tongues at all? Would they see any of these doubtful manifestations that some have accused the Pentecostals of? Is it all just gossip, and false accusations? I don't care what happened back when, but if they were to visit churches this Sunday what would they actually find?

I have a feeling they would not experience anything unbiblical and might even have an encounter with God.

 

[Evmur]

That's funny.... I don't consider myself to be an "unbeliever"... and you don't know me well enough to insinuate that...

I believe I stated that in one of my previous comments.... if I am meant to have tongues, I'm sure I will have them. I am trusting the Spirit to lead me where He wills.... as I have been for about 57 years now, since baptism.

I did not mean to imply you were not saved ... but your attitude toward tongues is wrong,

 

[cv5]

as I said, that's an easy fall-back position. How do YOU know what God will or will not grant? Pure supposition on your part.
Moses asked for "signs", and God gave them... God gives "signs" all the time.... remember Pharoah? He was shown a few signs. Signs are to CONVINCE doubters, unbelievers.... remember Thomas, after Jesus rose?


well, not so much. Seems like there were 3000 or so saved at Pentecost... and whole households were becoming believers... remember Cornelius? The church was growing so fast, it scared the ruling Jewish leaders.... that doesn't sound to me like "only a few" were believing...

This early growing Church including ranks upon ranks of Levites, priests and Pharisees as well.

 

[ResidentAlien]

You are kidding yourself ... You would have been among those who said "we believe in the Messiah but Jesus is not Him"

If you say so.

you have set yourself up as judge over God's people.

I know what, let's all just join hands and have a great big love fest, everyone welcome.

 

[Evmur]

If you say so.



I know what, let's all just join hands and have a great big love fest, everyone welcome.

You would have said of the Lord "how can this man be a prophet who eats with sinners?"

 

[cv5]

I wonder if someone were to visit Charismatic churches in their area what they would actually find. Is there a problem? Would they even witness anyone speaking in tongues at all? Would they see any of these doubtful manifestations that some have accused the Pentecostals of? Is it all just gossip, and false accusations? I don't care what happened back when, but if they were to visit churches this Sunday what would they actually find?

I have a feeling they would not experience anything unbiblical and might even have an encounter with God.

I have an issue with any Church calling itself a "charismatic/Pentecostal" Church to begin with. Self-imposed denominationism never did sit well with me. Look at me I'm special???

Back in the day (way back) I heard people tell me that they would never attended anything OTHER than a hardcore Pentecostal Church. And I hate to say this but these facilities seem to me be some of the most shifty shady scammy Churches in the neighborhood. I attended a couple and never went back. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing.....IMO.

On the other hand I have seen some very good Pentecostal Churches proclaiming/teaching good sound doctrine. If they would just eliminate the babbling fake tongues and continual "seeking after a sign" I would have no problem attending.

 

[Evmur]

If you say so.



I know what, let's all just join hands and have a great big love fest, everyone welcome.

All who desire may join ... you have the "other brother" attitude it grieves you to see the fatted calf slain for the returning sinner.

 

[cv5]

I did not mean to imply you were not saved ... but your attitude toward tongues is wrong,

Hornet-guy does not have an improper attitude towards tongues IMO. Because he does not deny them. He is not a ceassionist either.

It's just that he is (like I am) calling out the fake infantile babbling so-called tounges as a fraud.

 

[ResidentAlien]

You would have said of the Lord "how can this man be a prophet who eats with sinners?"

Sure, you're right.

 

[ResidentAlien]

All who desire may join ... you have the "other brother" attitude it grieves you to see the fatted calf slain for the returning sinner.

???

 

[ResidentAlien]

What I find very ironic is how a lot of Pentecostals and Charismatics call people who don't believe their so-called signs and wonders "Pharisees." But it was the Pharisees who loved making a big show in front of people to impress them.

 

[Evmur]

I have an issue with any Church calling itself a "charismatic/Pentecostal" Church to begin with. Self-imposed denominationism never did sit well with me. Look at me I'm special???

Back in the day (way back) I heard people tell me that they would never attended anything OTHER than a hardcore Pentecostal Church. And I hate to say this but these facilities seem to me be some of the most shifty shady scammy Churches in the neighborhood. I attended a couple and never went back. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing.....IMO.

On the other hand I have seen some very good Pentecostal Churches proclaiming/teaching good sound doctrine. If they would just eliminate the babbling fake tongues and continual "seeking after a sign" I would have no problem attending.

you would have the Pentecostals trying to pass themselves off as decent respectable evangelicals? then you would accuse them of being sly.

Good sound teaching do not go together with babbling fake tongues. A tree is either good or it is evil.

We believe preaching with the demonstrations of the Holy Ghost is a thing to be desired. Don't seek after loaves and fishes ... seek for the meat that endureth unto everlasting life.