Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[DavidTree]

I don't think it matters where one is in the body, to not be water-baptized is to not do what scripture clearly puts forth!

AGREE, if the individual is refusing, thru unbelief and error once the scripture is opened to him/her.

The Holy Spirit is not looking for water baptism but is looking at the heart of man to SEE if Saving Faith is ready to burst forth from the bondage of sin by Hearing the Message of Christ's shed Blood for remission of sins.

Therefore we SEE, in ACTS that there are those like myself, who were Born-Again before water baptism - in my case and others, it was a full year later we were water baptized.

Nothing changed after the water baptism - it is outward and cannot cleanse the inward sin/soul of man.

We respond, in faith to follow the Path our LORD set forth for us all.

Those who heavily focus on water baptism are usually the same ones that despise and repudiate the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Their confidence is on the outward act upon the flesh versus the Inward Act of the Holy Spirit.

This has always been the issue = religion(carnal) vs the Spirit = outward vs Inward = intellectualism vs Faith in the Word.

 

[DavidTree]

No, it's impossible if they follow Parham's false doctrine of baptism in the Holy Spirt and signs and wonders; this is what people can't seem to get their head's around. Parham didn't just "taint" the name, it was spoiled rotten doctrine from the get-go and Pentecostals adopted it.

How do I know it's rotten? Because it's source was rotten—Parham.

We are not told to follow man but only the Son of Man who is Christ Jesus the LORD.

Unbelievers always focus their eyes on what is false to have an excuse to reject what is TRUE.

Your own intellectualism deceives you for Christ said: "false christs and prophets and teachers will deceive and mislead many,"
Do we reject the TRUE CHRIST because of the false? of course not
Then do not reject the TRUE Holy Spirit and His Baptism because of the false/counterfeits/propheteers

Now you can refuse, for it is His Blood that atones for sin, but do not err and speak evil of what comes from the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Remember what the LORD says: "Do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit for there is never forgiveness"

 

[Oblio]

As far as I knew, the only thing that actually happened when I got water-baptized, besides me being obedient to the word, was that I got wet! It's a simple thing to do. The thing for me was that I didn't have a deep understanding of why I did it. I did it in faith.
I did, however, understand that it was a public proclamation of my faith. And that in itself, is a powerful thing. It's a step forward in being a witness. It's also a good example to others. And..
"32Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father in heaven. 33But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven" - Matthew 10:32, 33
When a tongue of fire crashed into my chest and tongues burst out of my mouth 25 years later, that was another matter altogether!!!

 

[DavidTree]

In 2022 one must be careful about belonging to ANY denomination. There are great delusions in most.
Remember...they are man made and have no support/relevance to God's word as a base.
Stick with the Bible...suggest KJV 1611 edition.

Be reminded...there are only three things we need to know of the scriptures to receive eternal salvation.
WHAT ARE THEY;

1 Repentance
2 Water baptism
3 Righteous living...until the end (death)

That is NOT the Three that the Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation says we must do to inherit Eternal Life.

However it is a subset of the TRUTH.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Your own intellectualism deceives you

Nothing wrong with intellect; it's what keeps a person from being deceived by every wind of strange doctrine that comes down the pike. You don't lose your intellect just because you're a follower of Christ.

 

[JeffA]

Nothing wrong with intellect; it's what keeps a person from being deceived by every wind of strange doctrine that comes down the pike. You don't lose your intellect just because you're a follower of Christ.

And you know when you are winning the intellectual argument...
They start hurling personal insults at you.
Or they condescend. Or patronize.

 

[DavidTree]

Study ..just these three;

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Are you a Christian? I have never seen a Christian reject God's word....like you are doing.
Please explain.

AGAIN - you misquote the Scripture and adulterate the understanding = religion vs Spirit

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God), = this comes from the heart = INWARD
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (not water baptism) who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

the Apostle Peter makes it CLEAR as DAY = water baptism is purely symbolic = it is the heart confession unto Christ that saves

Greek word used = antitypon
symbolizes
ἀντίτυπον (antitypon)
Adjective - Nominative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 499: Neuter of a compound of anti and tupos; corresponding, i.e. A representative, counterpart.

 

[DavidTree]

Nothing wrong with intellect; it's what keeps a person from being deceived by every wind of strange doctrine that comes down the pike. You don't lose your intellect just because you're a follower of Christ.

Intellect does not keep you from every wind of doctrine.............foundation of sand.

Faith in the Word and the teachings of Christ and the Apostles and the Spirit is what keeps us on the straight and narrow.

Your intellect is a stumbling block unto your self. The LORD never set forth, to anyone, a path unto intellectualism.

You choose to reject the Scripture and make excuses and even worse argue against and speak against the Word and the Spirit.

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

Acts never ends, remains an Open Door of the Holy Spirit working in and thru His People who are called by His Name.

In Acts and 1 Corinthians is the Holy Spirit inspired instruction for the Church until His Second Coming.

All who oppose it will be in great sorrow when they stand before the LORD.

It is not by chance(intellect) that we have this Blessing/Warning in 1 Corinthians

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Intellect does not keep you from every wind of doctrine.............foundation of sand.

Faith in the Word and the teachings of Christ and the Apostles and the Spirit is what keeps us on the straight and narrow.

Your intellect is a stumbling block unto your self. The LORD never set forth, to anyone, a path unto intellectualism.

You choose to reject the Scripture and make excuses and even worse argue against and speak against the Word and the Spirit.

You're thinking of it as either/or: either you have faith or you have intellect; but the two work together. The Holy Spirit communicates the truth to our mind. God gave each of us a mind and He expects us to use it; not without Him though, of course.

If you want to toss out your intellect then by all means go right ahead. But I can tell you that's some shifting sand I wouldn't want to be on.

"Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth."—Colossians 3:2

"Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "—Matthew 22:37

"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and well pleasing and perfect will of God."—Romans 12:2

 

[JTB]

No, it's impossible if they follow Parham's false doctrine of baptism in the Holy Spirt and signs and wonders; this is what people can't seem to get their head's around. Parham didn't just "taint" the name, it was spoiled rotten doctrine from the get-go and Pentecostals adopted it.

How do I know it's rotten? Because it's source was rotten—Parham.

See, that's where you go wrong. The initial source was NOT Parham, it was the Holy Spirit.

Parham just came along later to screw up our understanding. And you have bought into it.

 

[ResidentAlien]

See, that's where you go wrong. The initial source was NOT Parham, it was the Holy Spirit.

Parham just came along later to screw up our understanding. And you have bought into it.

Keep tellin' yourself that.

 

[JTB]

Keep tellin' yourself that.

Enough. I declare you lost. May you some day be found again.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Enough. I declare you lost. May you some day be found again.

Declaring me lost won't change the truth.

 

[JeffA]

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This "water" refers to physical childbirth.
One must be born of the flesh AND of the spirit. This is not water baptism.

 

[DavidTree]

You're thinking of it as either/or: either you have faith or you have intellect; but the two work together. The Holy Spirit communicates the truth to our mind. God gave each of us a mind and He expects us to use it; not without Him though, of course.

If you want to toss out your intellect then by all means go right ahead. But I can tell you that's some shifting sand I wouldn't want to be on.

"Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth."—Colossians 3:2

"Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "—Matthew 22:37

"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and well pleasing and perfect will of God."—Romans 12:2

It is NOT a either/or and i never said that, but it is before the LORD.

Here is Holy Spirit wisdom in the things of God that i have been sharing:

#1. "the LORD never set before us a path of intellectualism that, by itself, leads us to Eternal LIFE = the Holy Spirit.

#2. "the FACT that i can understand Scripture and your posts and the error of your posts shows forth these immutable Truths.
God created man to have thought/intellect/decision making abilities.
Man's intellect became contaminated by and thru sin, this is what we were conceived and born into this world in, and were educated in = thus the Scripture says: "do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. " Romans 12:2

#3. religion is outward, relies on the intellect, and is conformed to this world with the guise of spirituality.

#4. being conformed to the Mind of Christ means our intellect bows the knee and submits unto Christ

#5. the evidence of a mind that is not submitted to Christ is one that argues against Scripture, puffs oneself up
whereby they 'assume' they are being patronized because they assume their intellect is above others.

#6. religion loves and operates under intellectual prowess, in which many submit to and admire = respect of persons

#7. God frowns on point #6 = "But HE gives more grace. Therefore HE says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”

AGAIN - it is not by intellect that the Holy Spirit placed this understanding in 1 Corinthians

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

 

[Amanuensis]

May we have the same faith as these and experience a fresh anointing to do the Gospel work He has called us to...

Acts 4:29...
And now, Lord, consider their threats, and grant that your servants may speak your word with all boldness, while you stretch out your hand for healing, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” When they had prayed, the place where they were assembled was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God boldly.

If someone tries to explain why this is not something I should pray, I ignore them and do it anyway. We don't have time to answer all the critics we need to stick to the task of soul winning. We will be so very glad we did when that day comes. We will shine as the stars.

 

[hornetguy]

Your intellect is a stumbling block unto your self. The LORD never set forth, to anyone, a path unto intellectualism.

And yet, Paul was a highly intellectual person.. studied under the premier teacher of the Jews, Gamaliel.... so being intellectual doesn't prevent someone from being a highly effectual believer... as long as one doesn't try to OVER analyze the simple message Jesus brought us.

 

[DavidTree]

And yet, Paul was a highly intellectual person.. studied under the premier teacher of the Jews, Gamaliel.... so being intellectual doesn't prevent someone from being a highly effectual believer... as long as one doesn't try to OVER analyze the simple message Jesus brought us.

HalleluYah and Praise the LORD my Brother, and yet Saul of Tarsus study led to the stoning of simpleton Stephen who,
conspicously was filled with the Holy Spirit = Acts ch7
Saul's intellect was corrupted and of no avail to God or his brethren of the flesh until WHEN?

please review Post #1,135 - thank you, my Brother

 

[DavidTree]

May we have the same faith as these and experience a fresh anointing to do the Gospel work He has called us to...

Acts 4:29...
And now, Lord, consider their threats, and grant that your servants may speak your word with all boldness, while you stretch out your hand for healing, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” When they had prayed, the place where they were assembled was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God boldly.

If someone tries to explain why this is not something I should pray, I ignore them and do it anyway. We don't have time to answer all the critics we need to stick to the task of soul winning. We will be so very glad we did when that day comes. We will shine as the stars.

AMEN

 

[shittim]

Paul was a "Pharisee of Pharisees", his conversion was miraculus, a choice by God to further His Gospel.
Jesus was clear that ALL things are new in Him, when Paul had his experience and subsequent healing in Damascus he then spent time learning, growing in the Spirit and knowledge of His ways.