Do the Scriptures teach universal redemption or universal salvation, or do they teach both?

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#21
Jul 3, 2015
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#21
RR said:
Tell me something, isn't that what God told Adam, that eternal life depended on him obeying Him? He said "eat of the fruit and you will die". If Adam had not sinned, the world would be filled with humanity, under the same conditions as Adam, obeying God's command. It was the same as the Law Covenant with the nation of Israel. God's plan for humanity has not changed. They will still need to obey God and his commands.
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I don't think so. Adam walked with God but He was still a natural man, made of the dust of this earth. First
comes the natural, and then comes the Spiritual. He was in need of a Spiritual birth the same way we are.

The same as Adam, obeying God??? Wow. Adam disobeyed God! Which, btw, is natural for a natural man to do.

You seem to think that man can perfectly keep God's commands. We would not need Jesus if that were so.
 
TDidymas

TDidymas

Active member
#22
Oct 27, 2021
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#22
RR said:
Tell me something, isn't that what God told Adam, that eternal life depended on him obeying Him? He said "eat of the fruit and you will die". If Adam had not sinned, the world would be filled with humanity, under the same conditions as Adam, obeying God's command. It was the same as the Law Covenant with the nation of Israel. God's plan for humanity has not changed. They will still need to obey God and his commands.
Click to expand...
I take your response to be saying, "yes, I do believe that we should have a legal relationship with God." Am I understanding you correctly? I certainly think I do, and my response to that is, that you simply don't understand the gospel. We're saved by the grace of God, not by obedience to the law. I believe what the apostle Paul wrote: "we maintain that a man is justified by faith, apart from works of the law." What exactly do you think he means by this?
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#23
Jan 27, 2021
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#23
I seem to keep hearing undertones insinuating it's not about obedience.
Let's let the Word clarify that.
Acts 5:29 English Standard Version
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.

I won't post the other couple of dozen scriptures unless I have to. :)
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#24
May 24, 2014
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#24
Do the Scriptures teach universal redemption or universal salvation, or do they teach both?

Hmmmmm:unsure:... I'm going to have to go with...

none of the above.

We all have a universal choice to make: What shall we do about Jesus.
 
JohnRH

JohnRH

Junior Member
#25
Mar 5, 2018
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#25
RR said:
To have a second sentence he must have come, either actually or reckonedly, from under the first sentence, and then committed a second offense. The world has been condemned once—Adam and all his race. Not until they shall be released from that condemnation could they come into a fresh condemnation.
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He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18 (KJV)
 
TDidymas

TDidymas

Active member
#26
Oct 27, 2021
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#26
Edify said:
I seem to keep hearing undertones insinuating it's not about obedience.
Let's let the Word clarify that.
Acts 5:29 English Standard Version
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.

I won't post the other couple of dozen scriptures unless I have to. :)
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Since you posted this directly after mine, I take it you were talking about my post, in which I said:
We're saved by the grace of God, not by obedience to the law. I believe what the apostle Paul wrote: "we maintain that a man is justified by faith, apart from works of the law."
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So your response begs the question, do you also see your relationship to God based on obedience to the law? (it looks like you do, given your response). Do you think a person is saved and gets eternal life because they obey the 10 commandments?
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

Well-known member
#27
Nov 12, 2021
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#27
Thread Title ---
Do the Scriptures teach universal redemption or universal salvation, or do they teach both?

NO ---definitely not ------definition of universal redemption ot universal salvation

In Christian theology, universal reconciliation (also called universal salvation, Christian universalism, or in context simply universalism) is the doctrine that all sinful and alienated human souls—because of divine love and mercy—will ultimately be reconciled to God.

God Loves all of His Creation -----with all our Sinful selves ------God still loves us ---God never abandons His Creation ----We are the ones who abandon God -----

Adam was a type of Christ -----Adam was the one in charge of the Garden ----He named all the animals and creepy things as well as the fish of the sea etc ------Eve was created to be Adams helper -----Eve was not in Charge ---Adam was ---Eve was deceived by the serpent ------Adam took willingly the fruit from his wife -----God could have physically killed them both right there and then ---but He didn't ----By his Love and Mercy he spared their lives and gave them Curses instead ------

Romans 5 AMP --

14 Yet death ruled [over mankind] from Adam to Moses [the Lawgiver], even over those who had not sinned [c]as Adam did. Adam is a type of Him (Christ) who was to come [but in reverse—Adam brought destruction, Christ brought salvation].


Salvation Comes by us having Faith in Christ and what He did on the Cross --------God's love will not Save you __FOLKS ---

You Do Not Go to Hell now for your sins -----you go to hell now for Rejecting Jesus ----who paid the price for all Sin ------by shedding His Blood to cover sin forever -----for those who RECEIVE Him by Faith in their hearts

Without Receiving Jesus in your heart who shed His Blood to cover all sin for all people --you are doomed ----

If you reject Jesus who is God the Son --then you Reject God the Father and you then have no recourse for entering Eternal LIFE -----your going to eternal torment ----you will be Separated from God forever ----


People who are Peddling this Universal Redemption and Universal Salvation are Peddling False Doctrine --
Hebrews 9 AMP

AMP
In fact under the Law almost everything is cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness [neither release from sin and its guilt, nor cancellation of the merited punishment].


 
RR

RR

Active member
#28
Mar 13, 2022
140
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Indiana
#28
Magenta said:
I don't think so. Adam walked with God but He was still a natural man, made of the dust of this earth. First
comes the natural, and then comes the Spiritual. He was in need of a Spiritual birth the same way we are.

The same as Adam, obeying God??? Wow. Adam disobeyed God! Which, btw, is natural for a natural man to do.

You seem to think that man can perfectly keep God's commands. We would not need Jesus if that were so.
Click to expand...
There wouldn't be a need for a spiritual birth had Adam obeyed. The earth would be filled with perfect humanity. The spiritual birth, the New Creation was created for a purpose, without sin, that purpose wouldn't be needed.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#29
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
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#29
RR said:
There wouldn't be a need for a spiritual birth had Adam obeyed. The earth would be filled with perfect humanity. The spiritual birth, the New Creation was created for a purpose, without sin, that purpose wouldn't be needed.
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Adam was not said to have been perfect. We are perfected in Christ.
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#30
May 3, 2018
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#30
The Bible teaching us that pray for all to be saved.
If the Bible is not to save everyone, why preach?
 
TDidymas

TDidymas

Active member
#32
Oct 27, 2021
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#32
RR said:
Soooo ... God created an imperfect being?
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Adam was not perfect in your assessment, likely. He was sinless, though, which meant that his will was submitted to God and aligned with His. But Adam fell out of God's direction and care when he sinned, and that was his own doing. So he was at first sinless, but not divine. When he was tempted, he sinned, so in that regard he wasn't as perfect as perhaps you want. Jesus didn't sin when He was tempted because of His divinity. Does that help clarify?
 
E

EyeWitness

Member
#33
Apr 11, 2022
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#33
We must respond to the call of God. We must follow Jesus in the here and now. Those who reject the Son of God will be condemned. Pretty simple.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#34
Jun 24, 2011
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#34
The scriptures teach no such thing.

It is people WANTING to read this into scripture that attempt to teach it.
 
P

peldom10

Banned
#35
May 22, 2020
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#35
Ogom said:
to know the answer to the title question, we must seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness ... and all these things will be added...

not all things are added in the beginning of things. there is darkness and a seeing - "in part" as the scriptures state. "... the one who thinks he knows does not yet know as he ought to". the one who knows he doesn't know for sure or even everything yet maybe - and having sought much (sincerely from God/ Spirit) the 'real' truth - above and beyond all the parts of the truth (as most/ or many humans might generally see) - will be able to find and learn the whole TrUtH - over and beyond all the parts of the tRuTh - fragments - through mindsets not fully formed into the mind of Christ yet, and not seeking enough - to even begin to really come out of the darkness and parts of the truth ("... but grow in grace and knowledge...).
Click to expand...

Well...specifically;
....." some things are reserved for our Father's knowledge only"....
....."it shall be revealed in due time".
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#38
May 3, 2018
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#38
I don't think we should take the words of Revelation to say God's redemption alone. It's taken out of context. God wants everyone to repent. Even if God knows the result, he hasn't given up anyone. We need to understand this.
 
P

peldom10

Banned
#39
May 22, 2020
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#39
soberxp said:
I don't think we should take the words of Revelation to say God's redemption alone. It's taken out of context. God wants everyone to repent. Even if God knows the result, he hasn't given up anyone. We need to understand this.
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Your thought is not clear;....alone for what?
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#40
May 3, 2018
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#40
peldom10 said:
Your thought is not clear;....alone for what?
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When I say this, the answer I get from God is that all can be saved, but not by people preaching, but by God's power and wisdom. At first I was also surprised why the answer God gave me was inconsistent with the revelation.

I know a sinner. I know his sin. He died many years ago. Then one day, I suddenly heard his voice in my ear. I think it is from heaven, and he is not a Christian. At first, I wondered why. I thought for a long time. My conclusion is that God wants to inspire my position and view on some issues through him.

You may say that you doubt whether the evil spirit is testing me. I said so. At that time, my reaction was that how can such a person enter the kingdom of heaven? He should go to hell! Then the sinner wanted to end his life because of my point of view. I regret what I thought now. I don't know if he really gave up his life. But Jesus said that those who gave up their life gained life instead.
 
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