Thoughts on Christian non-violence

[njhmusicman18]

Hi guys! I have been thinking about non-violence and whether Christians should ever be violent and here are my thoughts.

When you become a Christian, you are giving your entire life over to Christ. Your life is not your own anymore and you are now called to deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow Jesus. This means that you are now stepping into a spiritual war and this war is Jesus and his followers against the devil and his demons. 2 Corinthians 10:3-4 says, 3 “For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.” In Ephesians 6:12, Paul says, 12 “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” We can see in these passages of scripture that we are told that the battle we face when we follow Jesus is not with the image bears of Christ that live on the earth but against the demons and dark powers of this world that can inhabit said image bears. We also see that when we fight this battle, we do not fight it with the weapons of this world but with the spiritual weapons that are given to us by God like the armor mentioned in Ephesians 6.

In Hebrews 4:12 we read, 12 “For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints, and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” Now, back at the time when this was written, the sword was the most popular weapon that someone would use when fighting because it was versatile, but a double-edged sword was an incredibly special weapon because it had a blade on either side. Now if this were to be written in modern times, I do not believe that we would use swords as our analogy, but guns would fit that a little better. So, one could say that the word of God is more powerful than any gun and if that is the case then if we are talking about nonviolence then why would we never need to use a gun when we have the word of God.

Just some initial thoughts on the subject but would love to know what you guys think and would love to keep the conversation going.

 

[Magenta]

Welcome!

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 10:4 plus Matthew 24:6

 

[JAPOV]

If God's people were not allowed to physically defend themselves in this life, we would have been wiped out thousands of years ago.

God marches before us, and the battle is already won!

 

[njhmusicman18]

If God's people were not allowed to physically defend themselves in this life, we would have been wiped out thousands of years ago.

God marches before us, and the battle is already won!

Can you explain this a little bit further?

 

[JAPOV]

Can you explain this a little bit further?

Well... coming from a military family, and as a vet myself, all I can say is... I've know many who say that the Old Testament sets precedence for war. That's Wrong. The Qur'an does, but not the Bible. God has no use for war... but man still does. We may do our best to carry forth God's will in perfect faith, but we are not perfect. Sometimes war is a necessary evil.

 

[CS1]

Hi guys! I have been thinking about non-violence and whether Christians should ever be violent and here are my thoughts.

When you become a Christian, you are giving your entire life over to Christ. Your life is not your own anymore and you are now called to deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow Jesus. This means that you are now stepping into a spiritual war and this war is Jesus and his followers against the devil and his demons. 2 Corinthians 10:3-4 says, 3 “For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.” In Ephesians 6:12, Paul says, 12 “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” We can see in these passages of scripture that we are told that the battle we face when we follow Jesus is not with the image bears of Christ that live on the earth but against the demons and dark powers of this world that can inhabit said image bears. We also see that when we fight this battle, we do not fight it with the weapons of this world but with the spiritual weapons that are given to us by God like the armor mentioned in Ephesians 6.

In Hebrews 4:12 we read, 12 “For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints, and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” Now, back at the time when this was written, the sword was the most popular weapon that someone would use when fighting because it was versatile, but a double-edged sword was an incredibly special weapon because it had a blade on either side. Now if this were to be written in modern times, I do not believe that we would use swords as our analogy, but guns would fit that a little better. So, one could say that the word of God is more powerful than any gun and if that is the case then if we are talking about nonviolence then why would we never need to use a gun when we have the word of God.

Just some initial thoughts on the subject but would love to know what you guys think and would love to keep the conversation going.

interesting. Christians have fought in every major world war. In the United States, there has been forced enlistment called the draft. Christians have fought and killed many people in war. Jesus said there will be WARS and rumors of war. Jesus did not say the war will break out and you are not to fight. Sin is the cause of war. Killing in war is also defending your life and the life of others. God fully understands this. God told His people to fight (war) against those who have their land.

War is coming, war is happening, and war will continue. Jesus was not a pacifist. Jesus willfully laid down his life, But HE is coming back and he is going to war and prevail, and destroy take life to send those to hell who rejected his salvation. There is a time and purpose for everything under heaven there is a time for war and a time for peace. War has been caused by sin Yet God used it to move his plan and purpose.

 

[njhmusicman18]

Well... coming from a military family, and as a vet myself, all I can say is... I've know many who say that the Old Testament sets precedence for war. That's Wrong. The Qur'an does, but not the Bible. God has no use for war... but man still does. We may do our best to carry forth God's will in perfect faith, but we are not perfect. Sometimes war is a necessary evil.

I still don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the wars of the old testament are not to be followed anymore and that war is bad, but that sometimes we as Christians have to partake in it to defeat evil people?

 

[njhmusicman18]

interesting. Christians have fought in every major world war. In the United States, there has been forced enlistment called the draft. Christians have fought and killed many people in war. Jesus said there will be WARS and rumors of war. Jesus did not say the war will break out and you are not to fight. Sin is the cause of war. Killing in war is also defending your life and the life of others. God fully understands this. God told His people to fight (war) against those who have their land.

War is coming, war is happening, and war will continue. Jesus was not a pacifist. Jesus willfully laid down his life, But HE is coming back and he is going to war and prevail, and destroy take life to send those to hell who rejected his salvation. There is a time and purpose for everything under heaven there is a time for war and a time for peace. War has been caused by sin Yet God used it to move his plan and purpose.

Just because some Christians do something doesn't make it right. Just because war has and will happen, doesn't mean that Christians have to participate in the killings. Also, just because God can use something bad for good doesn't mean we need to do those bad things. Aren't the people at the other end of the barrel just like us and worthy to be redeemed by Christ. Shouldn't that be our mission even if it costs us our lives?

 

[JaumeJ]

Well... coming from a military family, and as a vet myself, all I can say is... I've know many who say that the Old Testament sets precedence for war. That's Wrong. The Qur'an does, but not the Bible. God has no use for war... but man still does. We may do our best to carry forth God's will in perfect faith, but we are not perfect. Sometimes war is a necessary evil.

I do not consider myself as being valiant by any means, yet, I cannot justify any war of mankind except the final battle, which will be good and evil I believe. This Battle will be fought by the Word and His saints, maybe, and not palpable weapons will be needed.
"Allow a paraphrase from the Word. What causes wars among you? You covet but you cannot attain. We are never to covet but we are to await the return of our blessed Savior J3esus Yeshua.

Until that glorious moment, we fight the spiritual battles of this war: I believe, amen.

 

[njhmusicman18]

I do not consider myself as being valiant by any means, yet, I cannot justify any war of mankind except the final battle, which will be good and evil I believe. This Battle will be fought by the Word and His saints, maybe, and not palpable weapons will be needed.
"Allow a paraphrase from the Word. What causes wars among you? You covet but you cannot attain. We are never to covet but we are to await the return of our blessed Savior J3esus Yeshua.

Until that glorious moment, we fight the spiritual battles of this war: I believe, amen.

But that proves my point, that until the finally battle, (which might be spiritual as well), we fight the spiritual battle here on earth using spiritual weapons.

 

[JaumeJ]

But that proves my point, that until the finally battle, (which might be spiritual as well), we fight the spiritual battle here on earth using spiritual weapons.

You have no dispute coming from me. God bless you, amen.

 

[njhmusicman18]

You have no dispute coming from me. God bless you, amen.

And bless you as well!

 

[CS1]

Just because some Christians do something doesn't make it right. Just because war has and will happen, doesn't mean that Christians have to participate in the killings. Also, just because God can use something bad for good doesn't mean we need to do those bad things. Aren't the people at the other end of the barrel just like us and worthy to be redeemed by Christ. Shouldn't that be our mission even if it costs us our lives?

and just because Christians have gone to war past, present, and future doesn't mean they are not saved if they do. the gospel message is for all and yes we are to try and reach those. I wonder if you support Ukraine's standing against (killing) Russia? Do you or did you support the standing against Nazi Germany who sought world domination? Again war happens because of sin. If your home is invaded and those who break in seek to victimize your wife and children do you fight or allow them to rape and harm your family? Can you call on the Lord and defend them at the same time? I think so.

 

[Diakonos]

“Whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.” (Luke 22:36)

 

[njhmusicman18]

and just because Christians have gone to war past, present, and future doesn't mean they are not saved if they do. the gospel message is for all and yes we are to try and reach those. I wonder if you support Ukraine's standing against (killing) Russia? Do you or did you support the standing against Nazi Germany who sought world domination? Again war happens because of sin. If your home is invaded and those who break in seek to victimize your wife and children do you fight or allow them to rape and harm your family? Can you call on the Lord and defend them at the same time? I think so.

Why do we only talk about either doing nothing while someone kills your family or killing the person who is coming to harm you. Can't there be another way? The Nazi were people just like us, broken and in need of Jesus, not in need of a bullet in their chest. Same with the Ukrainians and the Russians.

 

[njhmusicman18]

“Whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.” (Luke 22:36)

You are taking this verse out of context. Here is the whole context, Luke 22:35-38,
35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’[b]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.

Jesus had them buy a sword, (which in this case was only two so not enough for each man to defend himself). because he had to fulfill the prophecy about him and his followers being rebels and transgressors. When Jesus was arrested and his followers pulled out their swords and used them, they looked like rebels and transgressors and they fulfilled the prophecy, leading Jesus to say that those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

 

[CS1]

Why do we only talk about either doing nothing while someone kills your family or killing the person who is coming to harm you. Can't there be another way? The Nazi were people just like us, broken and in need of Jesus, not in need of a bullet in their chest. Same with the Ukrainians and the Russians.

I am all for you going to those places and sharing the gospel do you need some contacts to get you there?

 

[JaumeJ]

“Whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.” (Luke 22:36)

“Whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.” (Luke 22:36)

Keep well in mind when this was declared, ONE sword was brought out, and the Lord dubbed it sufficient.

We have the Sword of Yeshua Jesus, His Word. Had Jesus Yeshua had a physical battle in mind, He would have specified more weapons.

We all bear the true Sword, and it is not a battle or war as mankind war, it is a spiritual battle.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

Why do we only talk about either doing nothing while someone kills your family or killing the person who is coming to harm you. Can't there be another way? The Nazi were people just like us, broken and in need of Jesus, not in need of a bullet in their chest. Same with the Ukrainians and the Russians.

So what option would you use in that situation then? What other way is there?