Do the Scriptures teach universal redemption or universal salvation, or do they teach both?

[RR]

This is a matter that might be stated in different terms and yet stated correctly. We might say that we have universal redemption, in that the redemption is on behalf of all, and that the results of the death of Christ will be made efficacious to all of Adam’s race. When it is made efficacious to all it will mean their salvation—either that they will be actually and fully saved out of sin and death conditions, or that they will have a full, complete opportunity for recovery out of sin and death, with only their wills to intervene. Through Christ the work of the first Adam will be entirely undone. Each member of the race will be privileged to come back to all that was lost, if he will.

An everlasting salvation, a complete deliverance from sin and death, will require the individual’s full co-operation. There is a Law of God which when broken leads to a sentence of death, as in the case of Father Adam. Broken by any one who has been delivered from the sentence of Adam and fully restored, that Law would mean that individual’s condemnation to death afresh. The Bible speaks of this condemnation as the Second Death, which it teaches some will undergo.

The first death passed upon all because of one man’s sin. The Second Death will pass upon none except for wilful, intelligent sin of the individual, which the Bible teaches some will commit. Such a sin could not be committed until first such ones had been delivered from the sentence previously upon him through Father Adam—the first death sentence. The world, therefore, could not now die the Second Death, because the world is not yet released from the first death. No man could be judicially tried and condemned to death twice for the same offense. To have a second sentence he must have come, either actually or reckonedly, from under the first sentence, and then committed a second offense. The world has been condemned once—Adam and all his race. Not until they shall be released from that condemnation could they come into a fresh condemnation.

Hence the Bible declares it to be God’s purpose that there shall be a great Day, a thousand-years Day, in which Christ will give the world a judgment, or trial. The right to give them this trial our Lord Jesus has secured by His own death, having tasted death for Adam and all his posterity condemned in him. (Hebrews 2:9.) The death of our Lord, a perfect man, would be the full offset of the sentence upon the first man. Thus the way is opened for the great “Times of Restitution” spoken of by the Apostle Peter.—Acts 3:19-21.

So our Lord Jesus has become the Redeemer, the Purchaser, of Adam and all his race. He has not yet fully accomplished the work of purchase; for the application of the merit of His sacrifice for the world is to follow His Second Advent, when the Church shall have been completed. As soon as this purchase shall have been effected, the cancellation of the sin of the world will be made. The world will then be turned over to Christ, free from the penalty of original, or Adamic sin; and each individual will have a full opportunity, or trial, or judgment, to determine his real character, his real intention, his real attitude toward right and toward wrong, toward God and toward sin. This will affect first the living nations, and then, gradually, those who will be in the tomb, as they shall come forth. This will be universal redemption, or deliverance, from the Adamic death penalty, universal purchase from death; but not universal deliverance or salvation to eternal life, which will be conditional.

The Apostle Paul, in speaking about this great trial Day, or Judgment Day, of the world, says, “God hath appointed a Day [future] in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained.” (Acts 17:31.) The word “Man” in this case is evidently used in a figurative way to represent Jesus the Head of The Christ and the Church His Body, who are to constitute the great Mediator between God and men for a thousand years, for the purpose of giving all mankind a full release from the Adamic penalty and a full opportunity to return to God. “Whosoever will” may have that full opportunity and may, be improving it, be found worthy of everlasting life. He may at the end of the thousand years, in mankind’s final test, demonstrate that he is able and willing—able because perfect, willing because of right heart-intentions—to keep the Divine Law. All such will be granted life eternal by the Father. All others will be destroyed.

Adam was on trial for this life eternal, but he failed at the outstart of his trial. The world of mankind at the opening of the Millennium will start in a different way. They will start imperfect; but, with an experience in the nature and effect of win, and under the covering of Christ’s work—not granted as an individual imputation, but through the operation of the Mediatorial Reign—they will be permitted to rise up, up, up, out of sin and death; and while having this privilege they will be permitted to demonstrate their real character, whether determined for good or for evil. If they faithfully determine for good, they will gain eternal life; if for evil; they will lose eternal life, and will die again and be dead forever—incur the Second Death. Thus the Bible teaches a universal redemption or salvation from the Adamic penalty; but it does not teach a universal salvation in eternal life.

 

[Ogom]

to know the answer to the title question, we must seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness ... and all these things will be added...

not all things are added in the beginning of things. there is darkness and a seeing - "in part" as the scriptures state. "... the one who thinks he knows does not yet know as he ought to". the one who knows he doesn't know for sure or even everything yet maybe - and having sought much (sincerely from God/ Spirit) the 'real' truth - above and beyond all the parts of the truth (as most/ or many humans might generally see) - will be able to find and learn the whole TrUtH - over and beyond all the parts of the tRuTh - fragments - through mindsets not fully formed into the mind of Christ yet, and not seeking enough - to even begin to really come out of the darkness and parts of the truth ("... but grow in grace and knowledge...).

 

[birdie]

This is a matter that might be stated in different terms and yet stated correctly. We might say that we have universal redemption, in that the redemption is on behalf of all, and that the results of the death of Christ will be made efficacious to all of Adam’s race. When it is made efficacious to all it will mean their salvation—either that they will be actually and fully saved out of sin and death conditions, or that they will have a full, complete opportunity for recovery out of sin and death, with only their wills to intervene. Through Christ the work of the first Adam will be entirely undone. Each member of the race will be privileged to come back to all that was lost, if he will.

An everlasting salvation, a complete deliverance from sin and death, will require the individual’s full co-operation. There is a Law of God which when broken leads to a sentence of death, as in the case of Father Adam. Broken by any one who has been delivered from the sentence of Adam and fully restored, that Law would mean that individual’s condemnation to death afresh. The Bible speaks of this condemnation as the Second Death, which it teaches some will undergo.

The first death passed upon all because of one man’s sin. The Second Death will pass upon none except for wilful, intelligent sin of the individual, which the Bible teaches some will commit. Such a sin could not be committed until first such ones had been delivered from the sentence previously upon him through Father Adam—the first death sentence. The world, therefore, could not now die the Second Death, because the world is not yet released from the first death. No man could be judicially tried and condemned to death twice for the same offense. To have a second sentence he must have come, either actually or reckonedly, from under the first sentence, and then committed a second offense. The world has been condemned once—Adam and all his race. Not until they shall be released from that condemnation could they come into a fresh condemnation.

Hence the Bible declares it to be God’s purpose that there shall be a great Day, a thousand-years Day, in which Christ will give the world a judgment, or trial. The right to give them this trial our Lord Jesus has secured by His own death, having tasted death for Adam and all his posterity condemned in him. (Hebrews 2:9.) The death of our Lord, a perfect man, would be the full offset of the sentence upon the first man. Thus the way is opened for the great “Times of Restitution” spoken of by the Apostle Peter.—Acts 3:19-21.

So our Lord Jesus has become the Redeemer, the Purchaser, of Adam and all his race. He has not yet fully accomplished the work of purchase; for the application of the merit of His sacrifice for the world is to follow His Second Advent, when the Church shall have been completed. As soon as this purchase shall have been effected, the cancellation of the sin of the world will be made. The world will then be turned over to Christ, free from the penalty of original, or Adamic sin; and each individual will have a full opportunity, or trial, or judgment, to determine his real character, his real intention, his real attitude toward right and toward wrong, toward God and toward sin. This will affect first the living nations, and then, gradually, those who will be in the tomb, as they shall come forth. This will be universal redemption, or deliverance, from the Adamic death penalty, universal purchase from death; but not universal deliverance or salvation to eternal life, which will be conditional.

The Apostle Paul, in speaking about this great trial Day, or Judgment Day, of the world, says, “God hath appointed a Day [future] in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained.” (Acts 17:31.) The word “Man” in this case is evidently used in a figurative way to represent Jesus the Head of The Christ and the Church His Body, who are to constitute the great Mediator between God and men for a thousand years, for the purpose of giving all mankind a full release from the Adamic penalty and a full opportunity to return to God. “Whosoever will” may have that full opportunity and may, be improving it, be found worthy of everlasting life. He may at the end of the thousand years, in mankind’s final test, demonstrate that he is able and willing—able because perfect, willing because of right heart-intentions—to keep the Divine Law. All such will be granted life eternal by the Father. All others will be destroyed.

Adam was on trial for this life eternal, but he failed at the outstart of his trial. The world of mankind at the opening of the Millennium will start in a different way. They will start imperfect; but, with an experience in the nature and effect of win, and under the covering of Christ’s work—not granted as an individual imputation, but through the operation of the Mediatorial Reign—they will be permitted to rise up, up, up, out of sin and death; and while having this privilege they will be permitted to demonstrate their real character, whether determined for good or for evil. If they faithfully determine for good, they will gain eternal life; if for evil; they will lose eternal life, and will die again and be dead forever—incur the Second Death. Thus the Bible teaches a universal redemption or salvation from the Adamic penalty; but it does not teach a universal salvation in eternal life.

Thank RR for your post. Some have claimed that salvation comes to all mankind thanks to Christ, but the Bible does have scriptures which seem to indicate that some will be saved, while others will not be. Those who are saved will be saved not by their own works but by God's own choice and election and by his work, not by ours. That is his business. A casual reading of 1 Corinthians sounds almost like all of mankind will be saved: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. " However, a closer look at the scripture shows that 'all' refers to those who are 'in Christ'. So the word 'all' does not appear to mean all of mankind, but rather to 'all of those who are in Christ'.

It is a very very common notion that Adam was a bad sinner who caused all of mankind's problems. However, I wish you to consider that the Bible says that "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. " Perhaps it would be more correct to blame Eve, who was a picture of believers, Christ's bride. Adam was a picture of Christ and Eve was a picture of Christ's spouse, the mother of all living (and that means spiritually alive). I personally think it is more likely that Adam's sin was more like Christ's sin. We know that Christ was without sin. Yet we also know that he became sin for us, on our behalf. So when I read: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." I tend to think of this as meaning something more akin to: for as Jesus died on the cross to cover the sin of his own, so in his resurrection shall all in Christ be made alive.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do the Scriptures teach universal redemption or universal salvation, or do they teach both?

Neither. While Christ died for all mankind, only those who obey the Gospel will be saved.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Neither. You must be born again, and follow Jesus.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is a very very common notion that Adam was a bad sinner who caused all of mankind's problems.

Not a "bad sinner", but it took only one act of disobedience by Adam to bring sin and death upon all mankind. And Eve is not without fault either. Regardless, since the human race is subject to sin and death God has provided a Savior for all humanity. But only those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved (Acts 16:31).

 

[pottersclay]

Let us make man in our image.....by this one verse alone the answer to your question is both.
Why you may ask. This verse tells us that God is our closest relative. That makes him all of mankinds goel or as we know him our redeemer.

 

[RR]

It is a very very common notion that Adam was a bad sinner who caused all of mankind's problems. However, I wish you to consider that the Bible says that "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. " Perhaps it would be more correct to blame Eve, who was a picture of believers, Christ's bride. Adam was a picture of Christ and Eve was a picture of Christ's spouse, the mother of all living (and that means spiritually alive). I personally think it is more likely that Adam's sin was more like Christ's sin. We know that Christ was without sin. Yet we also know that he became sin for us, on our behalf. So when I read: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." I tend to think of this as meaning something more akin to: for as Jesus died on the cross to cover the sin of his own, so in his resurrection shall all in Christ be made alive.

I have a different spin on this. The Bible teaches that Jesus was an exact equivalent of Adam, Adam sinned willfully and so did the race in him, according to 1 Tim. 2:14, compared with Rom. 5:12-14. Jesus died to overcome all the effects of Adam’s wilful sin; and Adam’s wilful sin made him and the race in his loins wilful sinners before Divine Justice. Thus the whole race became guilty of Adam’s wilful sin; and God so regards them. Jesus died for this wilful sin of Adam and Adam’s race. Adam’s debt to Divine Justice was a perfect human body, life, right to life, and life-rights; and these are exactly what Jesus gave up in laying down the ransom. Since nobody else but Adam had these four perfect things, these four perfect things that Jesus gave up to be a corresponding price must have been given up for Adam.

Divine Justice requires an exact equivalent for a debt; and the only person apart from Jesus who had a perfect human body, life, life-rights and right to life was Adam. Consequently, in giving the ransom, Adam was the only one for whom the equivalent price could be given directly by Jesus. As a matter of fact, if Adam was not considered as to be redeemed, God could not have asked for a perfect human being to be a corresponding price; for Jesus is not an equivalent of the imperfect race, considered apart from Adam. Thus there would not have been an equivalent price furnished for the fallen race, unless the fallen race is considered a part of Adam, as in his loins, redeemed in Adam; for one perfect human being is not the corresponding price for billions of imperfect human beings considered in themselves alone. It is only as these billions of imperfect human beings are considered as having been perfect in the loins of perfect Adam that God could have required a perfect human being as the corresponding price, in whose loins was a perfect race. This, therefore, proves Adam was the direct subject of the ransom. The rest of the race was only indirectly involved in the ransom, because they were in Adam’s loins, and for them Jesus gave an unborn perfect race in His loins.

In Heb. 2:7, 9 Adam and Jesus are presented as the only two men crowned with glory and honor, i.e., perfect in the image and likeness of God; and thus Jesus is shown to be an exact equivalent of Adam; and he thus gave Himself to “taste death for every man.” Adam was a member of the human race, and thus was included in Jesus’ ransom, for 1 Tim. 2:5, 6 tells us that Jesus died for “all,” hence for every member of the human race. According to Heb. 2:7-9, Adam was the only one crowned with glory and honor for whom Jesus as another crowned with glory and honor could directly die. It will be noticed that v. 8 shows us that the rest of the human race are not crowned with glory and honor, which, therefore, means that Jesus was an equivalent of Adam and, therefore, ransomed Adam and the race as it was in Adam’s loins. The two passages above explained directly involve the ransom as centered in Adam; and it is on the basis of Jesus’ having provided the ransom for Adam that Paul gives us the contrast between Adam’s effects on the race and Jesus’ effects on the race, in 1 Cor. 15:21, 22, and in Rom. 5:15-19.

Jesus’ ability to undo the consequences of Adam’s sin for the world, as these two passages show, is based on the fact that He before Divine Justice makes good for Adam’s wilful sin and the race’s participation in it while in Adam’s loins. Therefore, the ransom must involve Adam. If it did not, there would be no possibility of removing the effects of his sin before Divine Justice, as these effects involve the race. It should, therefore, be repeated, that Jesus’ sacrifice atones for Adam’s wilful sin and the share the race had in it; as it also atones for all of the effects that come from that wilful sin upon Adam and Adam’s race, the weaknesses and ignorance resulting therefrom.

It is, therefore, a mere sophism to say that our Lord’s death is only for the cancellation of sins of weakness and ignorance. It is true it does effect the cancellation of our sins of weakness and ignorance; but it also cancels the guilt of Adam’s wilful sin, as that guilt involved him and us; and, therefore, Jesus’ ransom is to undo Adam’s wilfulness and the race’s wilfulness in that sin. If Jesus’ death does not atone for Adam’s wilful sin, because of its wilfulness, then it does not atone for the race’s share in that wilful sin, because of its wilfulness; hence we would not be redeemed from the sentence upon that wilful sin as participants in it by virtue of our being in Adam’s loins when he sinned wilfully; and hence, however much our sins of weakness and ignorance would be atoned for by Jesus’ death, we would have no deliverance from the original sentence upon Adam and his race for his wilful sin. Hence the pertinent error makes salvation impossible. To deny that Jesus ransoms Adam is to directly deny the most fundamental part of the ransom—it’s being the corresponding price for Adam.

I hope that makes sense to you!

 

[JAPOV]

Only those who sincerely ask for God's forgiveness and repent will be given to Christ for redemption.

 

[Aerials1978]

Neither

 

[Amanuensis]

It's simple. But only the spiritual understand it. Jesus came to save whoever will believe. Not all will believe, but that they could have makes their judgment just.

The second death simply means that they are cast into the Lake of fire after they are raised bodily from the dead to be judged.

 

[CS1]

many complicate the work of salvation and the context of who is saved. Jesus is the authority on the topic.

He said in John 3:16-18


16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

some see this for whatever reason and added as a positional argument that it is somehow saying You are working for salvation because "YOU have believed".

That can not be so because the belief in Christ is of faith which was given to man so he could believe or reject. Free will to choose Christ doesn't mean you can save yourself, because salvation had to be in place before one could surrender to it and repent. Christ was slain at the foundation of the world. The work of the Cross by Christ is absolute yet, many will reject his salvation, MANY already have.

 

[Evmur]

This is a matter that might be stated in different terms and yet stated correctly. We might say that we have universal redemption, in that the redemption is on behalf of all, and that the results of the death of Christ will be made efficacious to all of Adam’s race. When it is made efficacious to all it will mean their salvation—either that they will be actually and fully saved out of sin and death conditions, or that they will have a full, complete opportunity for recovery out of sin and death, with only their wills to intervene. Through Christ the work of the first Adam will be entirely undone. Each member of the race will be privileged to come back to all that was lost, if he will.

An everlasting salvation, a complete deliverance from sin and death, will require the individual’s full co-operation. There is a Law of God which when broken leads to a sentence of death, as in the case of Father Adam. Broken by any one who has been delivered from the sentence of Adam and fully restored, that Law would mean that individual’s condemnation to death afresh. The Bible speaks of this condemnation as the Second Death, which it teaches some will undergo.

The first death passed upon all because of one man’s sin. The Second Death will pass upon none except for wilful, intelligent sin of the individual, which the Bible teaches some will commit. Such a sin could not be committed until first such ones had been delivered from the sentence previously upon him through Father Adam—the first death sentence. The world, therefore, could not now die the Second Death, because the world is not yet released from the first death. No man could be judicially tried and condemned to death twice for the same offense. To have a second sentence he must have come, either actually or reckonedly, from under the first sentence, and then committed a second offense. The world has been condemned once—Adam and all his race. Not until they shall be released from that condemnation could they come into a fresh condemnation.

Hence the Bible declares it to be God’s purpose that there shall be a great Day, a thousand-years Day, in which Christ will give the world a judgment, or trial. The right to give them this trial our Lord Jesus has secured by His own death, having tasted death for Adam and all his posterity condemned in him. (Hebrews 2:9.) The death of our Lord, a perfect man, would be the full offset of the sentence upon the first man. Thus the way is opened for the great “Times of Restitution” spoken of by the Apostle Peter.—Acts 3:19-21.

So our Lord Jesus has become the Redeemer, the Purchaser, of Adam and all his race. He has not yet fully accomplished the work of purchase; for the application of the merit of His sacrifice for the world is to follow His Second Advent, when the Church shall have been completed. As soon as this purchase shall have been effected, the cancellation of the sin of the world will be made. The world will then be turned over to Christ, free from the penalty of original, or Adamic sin; and each individual will have a full opportunity, or trial, or judgment, to determine his real character, his real intention, his real attitude toward right and toward wrong, toward God and toward sin. This will affect first the living nations, and then, gradually, those who will be in the tomb, as they shall come forth. This will be universal redemption, or deliverance, from the Adamic death penalty, universal purchase from death; but not universal deliverance or salvation to eternal life, which will be conditional.

The Apostle Paul, in speaking about this great trial Day, or Judgment Day, of the world, says, “God hath appointed a Day [future] in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained.” (Acts 17:31.) The word “Man” in this case is evidently used in a figurative way to represent Jesus the Head of The Christ and the Church His Body, who are to constitute the great Mediator between God and men for a thousand years, for the purpose of giving all mankind a full release from the Adamic penalty and a full opportunity to return to God. “Whosoever will” may have that full opportunity and may, be improving it, be found worthy of everlasting life. He may at the end of the thousand years, in mankind’s final test, demonstrate that he is able and willing—able because perfect, willing because of right heart-intentions—to keep the Divine Law. All such will be granted life eternal by the Father. All others will be destroyed.

Adam was on trial for this life eternal, but he failed at the outstart of his trial. The world of mankind at the opening of the Millennium will start in a different way. They will start imperfect; but, with an experience in the nature and effect of win, and under the covering of Christ’s work—not granted as an individual imputation, but through the operation of the Mediatorial Reign—they will be permitted to rise up, up, up, out of sin and death; and while having this privilege they will be permitted to demonstrate their real character, whether determined for good or for evil. If they faithfully determine for good, they will gain eternal life; if for evil; they will lose eternal life, and will die again and be dead forever—incur the Second Death. Thus the Bible teaches a universal redemption or salvation from the Adamic penalty; but it does not teach a universal salvation in eternal life.

"...will be damned" I have always understood to mean judged, we are to preach the judgement day when God will judge the world by Jesus Christ.

He will judge with equity. The wicked will depart into eternal punishment.

Now this judgement takes place after the church is raptured and have reigned with Christ 1, 000 years so whoever those "righteous" ones are on His right hand they cannot possibly be the church. Nor yet can they be the Jews who will have reigned with Christ on earth.

This provides solid ground to believe in a much wider mercy than is generally preached.

 

[TDidymas]

This is a matter that might be stated in different terms and yet stated correctly. We might say that we have universal redemption, in that the redemption is on behalf of all, and that the results of the death of Christ will be made efficacious to all of Adam’s race. When it is made efficacious to all it will mean their salvation—either that they will be actually and fully saved out of sin and death conditions, or that they will have a full, complete opportunity for recovery out of sin and death, with only their wills to intervene. Through Christ the work of the first Adam will be entirely undone. Each member of the race will be privileged to come back to all that was lost, if he will.

An everlasting salvation, a complete deliverance from sin and death, will require the individual’s full co-operation. There is a Law of God which when broken leads to a sentence of death, as in the case of Father Adam. Broken by any one who has been delivered from the sentence of Adam and fully restored, that Law would mean that individual’s condemnation to death afresh. The Bible speaks of this condemnation as the Second Death, which it teaches some will undergo.

The first death passed upon all because of one man’s sin. The Second Death will pass upon none except for wilful, intelligent sin of the individual, which the Bible teaches some will commit. Such a sin could not be committed until first such ones had been delivered from the sentence previously upon him through Father Adam—the first death sentence. The world, therefore, could not now die the Second Death, because the world is not yet released from the first death. No man could be judicially tried and condemned to death twice for the same offense. To have a second sentence he must have come, either actually or reckonedly, from under the first sentence, and then committed a second offense. The world has been condemned once—Adam and all his race. Not until they shall be released from that condemnation could they come into a fresh condemnation.

Hence the Bible declares it to be God’s purpose that there shall be a great Day, a thousand-years Day, in which Christ will give the world a judgment, or trial. The right to give them this trial our Lord Jesus has secured by His own death, having tasted death for Adam and all his posterity condemned in him. (Hebrews 2:9.) The death of our Lord, a perfect man, would be the full offset of the sentence upon the first man. Thus the way is opened for the great “Times of Restitution” spoken of by the Apostle Peter.—Acts 3:19-21.

So our Lord Jesus has become the Redeemer, the Purchaser, of Adam and all his race. He has not yet fully accomplished the work of purchase; for the application of the merit of His sacrifice for the world is to follow His Second Advent, when the Church shall have been completed. As soon as this purchase shall have been effected, the cancellation of the sin of the world will be made. The world will then be turned over to Christ, free from the penalty of original, or Adamic sin; and each individual will have a full opportunity, or trial, or judgment, to determine his real character, his real intention, his real attitude toward right and toward wrong, toward God and toward sin. This will affect first the living nations, and then, gradually, those who will be in the tomb, as they shall come forth. This will be universal redemption, or deliverance, from the Adamic death penalty, universal purchase from death; but not universal deliverance or salvation to eternal life, which will be conditional.

The Apostle Paul, in speaking about this great trial Day, or Judgment Day, of the world, says, “God hath appointed a Day [future] in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained.” (Acts 17:31.) The word “Man” in this case is evidently used in a figurative way to represent Jesus the Head of The Christ and the Church His Body, who are to constitute the great Mediator between God and men for a thousand years, for the purpose of giving all mankind a full release from the Adamic penalty and a full opportunity to return to God. “Whosoever will” may have that full opportunity and may, be improving it, be found worthy of everlasting life. He may at the end of the thousand years, in mankind’s final test, demonstrate that he is able and willing—able because perfect, willing because of right heart-intentions—to keep the Divine Law. All such will be granted life eternal by the Father. All others will be destroyed.

Adam was on trial for this life eternal, but he failed at the outstart of his trial. The world of mankind at the opening of the Millennium will start in a different way. They will start imperfect; but, with an experience in the nature and effect of win, and under the covering of Christ’s work—not granted as an individual imputation, but through the operation of the Mediatorial Reign—they will be permitted to rise up, up, up, out of sin and death; and while having this privilege they will be permitted to demonstrate their real character, whether determined for good or for evil. If they faithfully determine for good, they will gain eternal life; if for evil; they will lose eternal life, and will die again and be dead forever—incur the Second Death. Thus the Bible teaches a universal redemption or salvation from the Adamic penalty; but it does not teach a universal salvation in eternal life.

I think your idea here has some very serious issues with scripture. The whole nature of your narrative is a legal relationship with God. What I read you saying is that eternal life is obtained by doing good, obeying God, have right intentions, or whatever you call it, meaning it's a salvation by works formula. Yet, Paul declares that believers are not under law, but under grace. Someone who has a grace relationship with God believes that he already has eternal life as a free gift from God, and that his obedience to God's will is an outcome of that grace relationship. Eph. 2:8-10, 1 Jn. 5:1,12, among many others, clearly declare it.

Those who believe in a grace relationship with God understand that God is the one doing His work in the individual. My works are done through God (that is, by God's power and will) - John 3:21. God is already dwelling in me doing His work - Rom. 8:9, Phil. 2:13. Therefore, I believe, thereby proving that I am God's son - 1 Jn. 5:1, Rom. 8:14 (among many others).

My relationship with God was initiated by God Himself, not by my trying to believe or trying to do right - Rom. 3:28 (my testimony of how I became a Christian fits into this framework, but of course, I had to reinterpret my experience in line with what the Bible actually says). Even though I spent time making effort to believe what I saw the Bible teaching, I consider that even my faith is a gift from God, as Eph. 2:8 indicates, and not my own decision or effort. John 1:13 tells me I was not born again out of my own decisions or intentions, but by the will and intentions of God.

In addition to your legal relationship concept, you claim that redemption is obtained for all, except for those with "willful intelligent sin," (showing your concept is legal in nature). Yet, those redeemed are effectually redeemed - Rev. 5:9. Also, Gal. 3:13 says "He has redeemed us from the curse of the law," so if we are redeemed in such a manner, the law cannot condemn us, because we are "under grace," which means we are in a grace relationship with God.

Therefore, those redeemed are sons of God, and have eternal life. And those not redeemed are unbelievers, and are facing the 2nd death - John 3:36. It doesn't mean that an unbeliever cannot become a believer, since that is happening every day. The epistle of 1 John teaches quite clearly that whoever is a true believer in Christ already has eternal life.

I suggest that you start reading the NT epistles many times, trying to discover what is actually being said, rather than trying to make make the Bible support your idea by prooftexts, as it appears to me you are doing. It's not that prooftexting is wrong, but bad interpretation, misunderstanding, misapplication, and eisegesis is the problem.

 

[posthuman]

Divine Justice requires an exact equivalent for a debt; and the only person apart from Jesus who had a perfect human body, life, life-rights and right to life was Adam. Consequently, in giving the ransom, Adam was the only one for whom the equivalent price could be given directly by Jesus. As a matter of fact, if Adam was not considered as to be redeemed, God could not have asked for a perfect human being to be a corresponding price; for Jesus is not an equivalent of the imperfect race, considered apart from Adam. Thus there would not have been an equivalent price furnished for the fallen race, unless the fallen race is considered a part of Adam, as in his loins, redeemed in Adam; for one perfect human being is not the corresponding price for billions of imperfect human beings considered in themselves alone. It is only as these billions of imperfect human beings are considered as having been perfect in the loins of perfect Adam that God could have required a perfect human being as the corresponding price, in whose loins was a perfect race. This, therefore, proves Adam was the direct subject of the ransom. The rest of the race was only indirectly involved in the ransom, because they were in Adam’s loins, and for them Jesus gave an unborn perfect race in His loins.

so could Adam have offered himself as a substitutionary atonement for his wife?
is that what he was doing? what was he doing? did he have a plan or was he just an unthinking fool?
was he trying to save her or only thinking of himself? was he thinking at all?

 

[RR]

so could Adam have offered himself as a substitutionary atonement for his wife? is that what he was doing? what was he doing? did he have a plan or was he just an unthinking fool? was he trying to save her or only thinking of himself? was he thinking at all?

As a perfect human being, yes, Adam could have ransomed Eve. But he would have stayed dead, and how would the human race begin?

 

[RR]

I think your idea here has some very serious issues with scripture. The whole nature of your narrative is a legal relationship with God. What I read you saying is that eternal life is obtained by doing good, obeying God, have right intentions, or whatever you call it, meaning it's a salvation by works formula.

Tell me something, isn't that what God told Adam, that eternal life depended on him obeying Him? He said "eat of the fruit and you will die". If Adam had not sinned, the world would be filled with humanity, under the same conditions as Adam, obeying God's command. It was the same as the Law Covenant with the nation of Israel. God's plan for humanity has not changed. They will still need to obey God and his commands.

 

[posthuman]

As a perfect human being, yes, Adam could have ransomed Eve. But he would have stayed dead, and how would the human race begin?

what would Adam think?
could God not create another man?

but what would happen to Woman? if Satan had deceived her once, could he not again?
Adam has a dilemma.

had he thought it through?
he was not deceived - what was he trying to do? did he accomplish it?

 

[posthuman]

Tell me something, isn't that what God told Adam, that eternal life depended on him obeying Him? He said "eat of the fruit and you will die". If Adam had not sinned, the world would be filled with humanity, under the same conditions as Adam, obeying God's command. It was the same as the Law Covenant with the nation of Israel. God's plan for humanity has not changed. They will still need to obey God and his commands.

i do not think that the fact he would die if he ate from the forbidden tree of dying-you-will-die necessarily implies Adam was originally created in an effective death-state that needed constant 'healing' from the tree of life to stave off...

​

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 8:1-4