America needs to defeat Russia in Ukraine NOW!!!!

[Roughsoul1991]

Well, you may be right in respect of trying to resolve the conflict from the outside, it seems the only option left for the Western European nations now given that 'the horse has bolted' on them. Unless Putin decides to use WMDs or the West can't stomach the atrocities any more and they give Russia an ultimatum to withdraw their troops, the war will grind on and Ukraine's people will continue to be slaughtered. I personally couldn't stand by and let a friendly neighbour suffer at the hand of a heartless thug and bully.

But would you personally be okay sending your son, your neighbor's son, and sons for generations?

War will grind on but look already how many have escaped? Look at the Ukrainian resistance with NATO help has saved countless lives. Look at the withdraw or reposition of the Russian troops now at least allowing more people to escape.

War is war and it is always ugly. The calculations are not always rewarding. Look at the results of the Vietnam war. Look at our liberation effort in Iran. We had good people who fought with us to liberate their country but we only have bodies to show for it.

Look at the atrocities in Africa to the Christian people but to move troops in would be guerilla warfare and like the middle east it will be a never ending war.

So much to factor in and even though it may make our hearts cry, as scripture says we must have many advisors before going to war. Many advisors are needed to weigh the many factors that ultimately you must also put your nation and people first.

 

[RichMan]

Said it before and will say it again---
Any elected official that agrees with sending American young men to a foreign war should be hung on the capital's steps.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Said it before and will say it again---
Any elected official that agrees with sending American young men to a foreign war should be hung on the capital's steps.

What is your view on alliances like NATO? Is the world better off with alliances or everyone for themselves?

 

[RichMan]

What is your view on alliances like NATO? Is the world better off with alliances or everyone for themselves?

Let the US supply it's share of weapons but European nations should supply troops.
If they are not willing to send their own young men to die, why should we?
I am sick and tired of the US sending young men to fight other peoples wars.
I have lost to many family and friends to death or disabilities, and for what?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Let the US supply it's share of weapons but European nations should supply troops.
If they are not willing to send their own young men to die, why should we?
I am sick and tired of the US sending young men to fight other peoples wars.
I have lost to many family and friends to death or disabilities, and for what?

What makes you think they are not willing to send troops in a WW3 scenario?

 

[ChristianTonyB]

But would you personally be okay sending your son, your neighbor's son, and sons for generations?

War will grind on but look already how many have escaped? Look at the Ukrainian resistance with NATO help has saved countless lives. Look at the withdraw or reposition of the Russian troops now at least allowing more people to escape.

War is war and it is always ugly. The calculations are not always rewarding. Look at the results of the Vietnam war. Look at our liberation effort in Iran. We had good people who fought with us to liberate their country but we only have bodies to show for it.

Look at the atrocities in Africa to the Christian people but to move troops in would be guerilla warfare and like the middle east it will be a never ending war.

So much to factor in and even though it may make our hearts cry, as scripture says we must have many advisors before going to war. Many advisors are needed to weigh the many factors that ultimately you must also put your nation and people first.

I don't think my sons or myself would stand by and let the family members of a friendly neighbour be threatened or slaughtered at the hands of an intruding neighbour. In fact we neighbours where I live have said that's what we would have done. War is a terrible thing, but you can't let a friend be bullied and decimated. I'm a Vietnam Vet, an infantryman, so I know what war is like first hand, and I don't take decisions about it lightly....but there's a moral obligation I have to fully help a friend in need.

 

[RichMan]

What makes you think they are not willing to send troops in a WW3 scenario?

We are not talking about WW3 scenario.
Europe has enough troops, or should have, to fight any enemy in Europe or even Russia.
No need for US troops.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I don't think my sons or myself would stand by and let the family members of a friendly neighbour be threatened or slaughtered at the hands of an intruding neighbour. In fact we neighbours where I live have said that's what we would have done. War is a terrible thing, but you can't let a friend be bullied and decimated. I'm a Vietnam Vet, an infantryman, so I know what war is like first hand, and I don't take decisions about it lightly....but there's a moral obligation I have to fully help a friend in need.

Define friend? If you mean innocent people then we better invade China as well to liberate the labor camps and persecuted minorities.

Is 10,000 innocent lives worth millions of innocent lives? It isn't like Ukraine is helpless nor do we know if it will spill over into Europe. I just do not see the logic.

But they are taking volunteers so both old and young could go fight.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

We are not talking about WW3 scenario.
Europe has enough troops, or should have, to fight any enemy in Europe or even Russia.
No need for US troops.

If war breaks out in Europe, it will pull in the world based on the fact of alliances. Should the US break our alliance with the European countries? I don't think that is wise.

How about a Russia, China, North Korea, and Iranian alliance? Will we stand against that of Europe is defeated?

 

[Gideon300]

I was wondering how we would feel if we were a patriarch of a family, that is hearing missiles and bombs fall around where his wife and children are cowering in a hopefully secure cellar or the like. I think sometimes we use our rationality to hide our cowardice!

America's engagements since WW2 have not gone well for the most part. If America gets directly involved, will it provoke Russia to use nukes? Is Putin bluffing?

This situation should never have been allowed to develop in the first place. Ukraine should have been added to NATO in 2014. Putin would not take on all of NATO. Russia's military has been seriously over estimated. Europe has fallen for the same misplaced hope that they suffered from in the 1930's.

Israel has shown how it should be done. Be armed to the teeth and hit hard and often, where it hurts the most. Ukraine gave up a lot of military hardware after the dissolution of the USSR. Hindsight is wonderful. They should have made giving up their nukes conditional on receiving protection from the West. At least one Christian prophet said that Russia would revert to its old ways after the end of the USSR. Europe should have listened!

 

[Gideon300]

If war breaks out in Europe, it will pull in the world based on the fact of alliances. Should the US break our alliance with the European countries? I don't think that is wise.

How about a Russia, China, North Korea, and Iranian alliance? Will we stand against that of Europe is defeated?

The difference is that there is a mutual defence agreement with various European nations. Ukraine is not a part of that agreement. personally, I think that they should be. They are far more worthy than Turkey, for example.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

The reason America cares is due to the geopolitical landscape, NATO alliance, global economy, domestic economy, human rights abuse, war crimes, weapons of mass destruction, the actions of other US enemies if this event isn't handled with strength, and currently the popular opinion of the US population is they do not want to jump into another decades long war with 1000s of our kids dead.

There are a lot of variables and unfortunately any day could change the the rally cry of the nation. By the end of the day, a new event, could easily set in motion the cry for war. (The day of infamy)

Yes.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Feelings are not always rational. For example,

View attachment 238585

The emotions portrayed in this image is raw and relational but not so much rational. This image is now used in many training exercises to get this point across. You can not help someone if you are dead yourself.

This was a lesson they taught us in fire science technology (fire fighting training) in many cases the fire department will do all they can to suppress or control the damage of a house fire but if it can not be extinguished and the risk is not worth the life of the fire fighter, they will fight the fire from the outside and simply protect the other houses around it. This is in my opinion the strategy we need right now in Europe.

How many families have been saved by outside efforts to get the across the border? By weapons we have supplied them? By our special operation forces who helped prepare them for this invasion the last 8 or 10 years? Could more be done? Of course, but it should also be well calculated.

There's no easy way to resolve this conflict now, the horse has bolted IMO.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The difference is that there is a mutual defence agreement with various European nations. Ukraine is not a part of that agreement. personally, I think that they should be. They are far more worthy than Turkey, for example.

Agreed but that should of happened decades ago.

 

[gb9]

The difference is that there is a mutual defence agreement with various European nations. Ukraine is not a part of that agreement. personally, I think that they should be. They are far more worthy than Turkey, for example.

ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations on earth. they should not be in nato.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

America's engagements since WW2 have not gone well for the most part. If America gets directly involved, will it provoke Russia to use nukes? Is Putin bluffing?

This situation should never have been allowed to develop in the first place. Ukraine should have been added to NATO in 2014. Putin would not take on all of NATO. Russia's military has been seriously over estimated. Europe has fallen for the same misplaced hope that they suffered from in the 1930's.

Israel has shown how it should be done. Be armed to the teeth and hit hard and often, where it hurts the most. Ukraine gave up a lot of military hardware after the dissolution of the USSR. Hindsight is wonderful. They should have made giving up their nukes conditional on receiving protection from the West. At least one Christian prophet said that Russia would revert to its old ways after the end of the USSR. Europe should have listened!

I'm wondering if Europe decided to ignore what was obvious to them, because easy access to affordable energy resources outweighed their concerns about Putin's and Russia's integrity.

Many believe that Putin's indignant rhetoric about the eastward move of NATO is a mask he is using to cover his real goal, which is to institute his version of the USSR, run under his rule.

Anyway, IMO it's too late to bring Putin to heel now, we missed the chance, and now Ukraine and probably eventually the West, will be paying a heavy price in materials and human lives before this invasion is terminated.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

There's no easy way to resolve this conflict now, the horse has bolted IMO.

I agree, but I also believe God's sovereignty is still in control and events will lead to exactly where God wants it to be. We see only evil, but yet we still see God moving amidst the people giving light to those snared in the dark. Through trials and tribulations as if baptism by fire has stirred up the church especially in places like Ukraine. People in great numbers have found refuge in the church and that will be fruitful on Earth as well as rewards in Heaven. And if it is our time to die, we will transition to life eternal.

 

[JohnDB]

ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations on earth. they should not be in nato.

That corruption stemmed from being under the Soviet Union umbrella.

It's impossible to go from a completely morally bankrupt society to a purely moral society overnight.

This sort of culture change is why Iran fell into the hands and control of Moslem extremists...and why America is revolting wholesale from the "progressive's" agenda of lax moral standards.

These sorts of cultural shifts must be made in degrees from grass root efforts..not overnight as a dictate from leadership.

 

[Gideon300]

I'm wondering if Europe decided to ignore what was obvious to them, because easy access to affordable energy resources outweighed their concerns about Putin's and Russia's integrity.

Many believe that Putin's indignant rhetoric about the eastward move of NATO is a mask he is using to cover his real goal, which is to institute his version of the USSR, run under his rule.

Anyway, IMO it's too late to bring Putin to heel now, we missed the chance, and now Ukraine and probably eventually the West, will be paying a heavy price in materials and human lives before this invasion is terminated.

Absolutely. There is a conceit in the West that the people in undemocratic societies would rush to embrace Western values if they could. Not necessarily. And the authoritarians in power ensure that they remain in control.

There is a very old English saying: "If you wish to dine with the devil, you need a very long spoon". Europe got way too close to Russia. Putin has lied continually since coming to power and used traditional brutal methods to suppress dissent. He's charmed the average Russian the way that Hitler charmed the people of Germany.

Europe did nothing much when Putin annexed Crimea. They've learned nothing from their own history. People like Putin respect only strength and power. Germany especially wimped out They walked softly but threw away the big stick. Appeasement does not work.

 

[Gideon300]

ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations on earth. they should not be in nato.

The whole world is corrupt. Allowing Ukraine to join NATO simply renders Russia unable to enforce its even more corrupt rule over Ukraine.