Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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I posted this a bunch of times. Guess you're not able to grasp its meaning? Out of heaven, not earth, Israel of God, got it? I can explain it further if you need me to but it should be pretty clear.
[Rev 21:2 KJV] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Here are a few new ones. Try to read them slowly and carefully while thinking. Understand them before responding. Notice the "Lamb's wife". If earthly Isarel was still God's wife as it used to be, as the object of His blessing, then He couldn't marry "holy Jerusalem": the saved, the new and only object of His blessing
[Rev 21:9-10 KJV]
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Notice the "descending out of heaven from God" part above. Heaven, not earth, got that: spiritual Israel
[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
The Israel of God are comprised only of those who are made "new creature(s)".
"Israel of God": spiritual Israel
[Rev 21:2 KJV] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Here are a few new ones. Try to read them slowly and carefully while thinking. Understand them before responding. Notice the "Lamb's wife". If earthly Isarel was still God's wife as it used to be, as the object of His blessing, then He couldn't marry "holy Jerusalem": the saved, the new and only object of His blessing
[Rev 21:9-10 KJV]
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Notice the "descending out of heaven from God" part above. Heaven, not earth, got that: spiritual Israel
[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
The Israel of God are comprised only of those who are made "new creature(s)".
"Israel of God": spiritual Israel
That land is not here, And it is not now. And israel in Gen 12 15 and 17 was NO PROMISED THAT LAND. nor was it given to them as a gift..
You can post that passage 1000 times, UNTIL you look at and respond to the actual covenant given in Gen 12, 15 and 17 you will continue to fail to grasp the palestinian covenant made between God and Israel as an eternal covenant.
You can post that passage 1000 times, UNTIL you look at and respond to the actual covenant given in Gen 12, 15 and 17 you will continue to fail to grasp the palestinian covenant made between God and Israel as an eternal covenant.
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That is an invalid question as per our conversation.
1. Israel today is our enemy concerning the gospel but beloved concerning the promise
2. Israel is in sin, Their land is in ruins, the temple is destroyed and they are dispered throughout the nations, as promised in Lev 26 (another passage you have failed to respond to)
3. They will not be saved until the time of the gentile is complete (see romans 11)
4. We are discussing the Israel that was given the promise in the covenant made to abraham. The true physical Israel.
5. God knows who real isreal is today. What we think does not matter.. We know this, they are blinded in part. and they are the natural branches..
1. Israel today is our enemy concerning the gospel but beloved concerning the promise
2. Israel is in sin, Their land is in ruins, the temple is destroyed and they are dispered throughout the nations, as promised in Lev 26 (another passage you have failed to respond to)
3. They will not be saved until the time of the gentile is complete (see romans 11)
4. We are discussing the Israel that was given the promise in the covenant made to abraham. The true physical Israel.
5. God knows who real isreal is today. What we think does not matter.. We know this, they are blinded in part. and they are the natural branches..
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K
No, you've been proven wrong through the Word. Utterly wrong. Let's read it this time through, ok?
And Genesis 15:18 states, “On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: ‘To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates.’” This is a very literal land. Heaven is not described, even allegorically, as the area between the river of Egypt and the Euphrates.
READ AGAIN !! A LITERAL PLACE!!!
God told Abraham, “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions” (Genesis 15:13-14).
Israel’s departure from the Promised Land was literal because they went into a literal Egypt. After four hundred years they became a nation of two to three million people and they physically left a literal Egypt for a literal Promised Land – not heaven.
AGAIN, A LITERAL PLACE !!
The title deed to the Promised Land was passed from Abraham to Isaac. God said to Isaac, “Sojourn in this land, and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I will give all these lands, and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father” (Genesis 26:3).
The title deed to the Promised Land was then passed to Jacob from Isaac. In Genesis 28:13, God said, “I am the LORD God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants.”
You have to be in a very literal land to lie on it !!
LITERAL LAND PASSED DOWN, UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE !!!!
In Genesis 15, God commanded Abraham to take a heifer, a she-goat, a ram, a turtledove, and a pigeon; and all were split in half except the birds. God placed Abraham in a deep sleep, for no man can look upon God and live, as He prepared to enter a blood covenant with Abraham.
In his sleep, Abraham saw “a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces” (Genesis 15:17). In the Old Testament, the burning lamp signified the presence of the Shekinah Glory of God. God was binding Himself, unconditionally, by a blood covenant to Abraham and his descendants forever, saying, “To your descendants I have given this land” (Genesis 15:18).
BLOOD COVENANT, UNCONDITIONAL !!
Done, over, nothing left to say. 100% proof, end of the story, period.
Brother, you've not just been proven wrong, you've been blown out of the water !! You sitting there and denying it is silliness. Anyone who can read can see you're totally and utterly wrong. You can't deny the Word, it's right here in front of you. Even a child can tell the difference between reality and a story.
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You are starting from a false foundation
You are starting from a false foundation There is no unconditional election. The Elect earned the right to be called "Gods' Elect" when they stood with God at the over through of Satan. Look at Ezekiel 28; no room to go into everything here but we can if you would like start a study of that.
You are starting from a false foundation There is no unconditional election. The Elect earned the right to be called "Gods' Elect" when they stood with God at the over through of Satan. Look at Ezekiel 28; no room to go into everything here but we can if you would like start a study of that.
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I noticed you haven't included an explanined or harmonized how the Israel of today fits with God's promises to Abraham, according to
your stated beliefs.
And you find eternal in there, where?
And you find eternal in there, where?
And you find eternal in there, where?
And you find eternal in there, where?
I think the problem lies with your lack of understanding of the gospel.
And boy oh boy, talk about a red herring - if you're going to do that you need to be a little more subtle with your approach. I never said that God didn't give certain earthly lands to Abraham - I realize that God made promises to Abraham for those, but there were two kinds of promise made: one for the eternal; one for the temporal.
Not all of God's promises were eternal as witnessed by the conditional covenant He made with Israel, which covenant, they failed in, and consequently, were divorced by God. Otherwise, had they been eternal promises, God couldn't have made them as conditional, and they certainly couldn't have been withdrawn: eternal means eternal.; everlasting means everlasting.
Look below. Do you see "the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised" part below? The eternal promises were to ALL that believe, not only to the Jews, and therefore, not because they were/are of the physical seed of Abraham. Do you see the "to them not of the circumcision only, but who walk in the steps of our father Abraham? What do you think that means? Do you see the "righteousness of faith" part? This world is to be destroyed along with everything in it, to include all of its lands (as I've posted to you multiple times), being replaced by a new eternal world created by God. Consequently, this world can't be the one of the promise. Do you still not see it?
Let me ask you a question. Do you consider yourself a Christian? If so, how then could you believe that anything Abraham
had done could bring forth things spiritual and eternal? Answer: they couldn't have, only Christ's could.
[Rom 4:11-13 KJV]
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
[Rom 4:14 KJV] 14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
God made Abraham the father of many nations, not only one:
[Rom 4:17 KJV] 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
your stated beliefs.
And you find eternal in there, where?
And you find eternal in there, where?
And you find eternal in there, where?
And you find eternal in there, where?
I think the problem lies with your lack of understanding of the gospel.
And boy oh boy, talk about a red herring - if you're going to do that you need to be a little more subtle with your approach. I never said that God didn't give certain earthly lands to Abraham - I realize that God made promises to Abraham for those, but there were two kinds of promise made: one for the eternal; one for the temporal.
Not all of God's promises were eternal as witnessed by the conditional covenant He made with Israel, which covenant, they failed in, and consequently, were divorced by God. Otherwise, had they been eternal promises, God couldn't have made them as conditional, and they certainly couldn't have been withdrawn: eternal means eternal.; everlasting means everlasting.
Look below. Do you see "the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised" part below? The eternal promises were to ALL that believe, not only to the Jews, and therefore, not because they were/are of the physical seed of Abraham. Do you see the "to them not of the circumcision only, but who walk in the steps of our father Abraham? What do you think that means? Do you see the "righteousness of faith" part? This world is to be destroyed along with everything in it, to include all of its lands (as I've posted to you multiple times), being replaced by a new eternal world created by God. Consequently, this world can't be the one of the promise. Do you still not see it?
Let me ask you a question. Do you consider yourself a Christian? If so, how then could you believe that anything Abraham
had done could bring forth things spiritual and eternal? Answer: they couldn't have, only Christ's could.
[Rom 4:11-13 KJV]
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
[Rom 4:14 KJV] 14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
God made Abraham the father of many nations, not only one:
[Rom 4:17 KJV] 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
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This is what you get for continuing to ignore the posts I have given you.
Gen 12 is the promise, I will make you a great nation
Gen 15 is the promise, I give you this land
Gen 17 is the promise, How long
Gen 17: 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
What land is he talking about here?
Gen 15:
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites,
and here is YOUR PROBLEM.
Not only do you fail to look at the passages I continually show you (We all know why if you really get down to it) But you try to make this a GOSPEL issue.
ps my friend, The land covenant HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOSPEL.
He did NOT promise Israel they would ALL BE SAVED.. He promised them LAND, as an eternal promise
Your making the same mistake they did. They thought as physical descendents they got an automatic in, because they too did not understand the LAND COVENANT.
That WHY paul wrote romans 9 - 11 to explain not only the jews how they were wrong. but the gentiles who were hearing the jews make this argument that they were in, and gentiles were out..
Gen 12 is the promise, I will make you a great nation
Gen 15 is the promise, I give you this land
Gen 17 is the promise, How long
Gen 17: 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
What land is he talking about here?
Gen 15:
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites,
and here is YOUR PROBLEM.
Not only do you fail to look at the passages I continually show you (We all know why if you really get down to it) But you try to make this a GOSPEL issue.
ps my friend, The land covenant HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOSPEL.
He did NOT promise Israel they would ALL BE SAVED.. He promised them LAND, as an eternal promise
Your making the same mistake they did. They thought as physical descendents they got an automatic in, because they too did not understand the LAND COVENANT.
That WHY paul wrote romans 9 - 11 to explain not only the jews how they were wrong. but the gentiles who were hearing the jews make this argument that they were in, and gentiles were out..
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Do you believe yourself a Christian?
Different Canaan(s). Just like earthly Israel and spiritual Israel - you just aren't able to get that, are you? One name is spiritually symbolic; one earthly (btw you show your ignorance of the gospel quite plainly because it is evident that
you either don't know, don't trust. or don't care about how God told us the Bible was written. If you ignore those rules, you will come to incorrect conclusions - which is why you incorrectly interpret as you do. For example: [2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. and:[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.)
Here's what God said He will do to the earthly Canaan
[Zep 2:5 KJV] 5 Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD [is] against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant.
So, as even you should be able see in above, the Canaan of God's blessing and the gift to Abraham, cannot be the earthly one - the Canaan that you believe is God's gift to the Jews. God is going to destroy it along with this entire world. How then can it be eternal? This is going to take some actual thinking on your part in order to resolve the contradiction you've established. To help you I'll repost this
[Rev 21:1-2 KJV]
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Different Canaan(s). Just like earthly Israel and spiritual Israel - you just aren't able to get that, are you? One name is spiritually symbolic; one earthly (btw you show your ignorance of the gospel quite plainly because it is evident that
you either don't know, don't trust. or don't care about how God told us the Bible was written. If you ignore those rules, you will come to incorrect conclusions - which is why you incorrectly interpret as you do. For example: [2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. and:[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.)
Here's what God said He will do to the earthly Canaan
[Zep 2:5 KJV] 5 Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD [is] against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant.
So, as even you should be able see in above, the Canaan of God's blessing and the gift to Abraham, cannot be the earthly one - the Canaan that you believe is God's gift to the Jews. God is going to destroy it along with this entire world. How then can it be eternal? This is going to take some actual thinking on your part in order to resolve the contradiction you've established. To help you I'll repost this
[Rev 21:1-2 KJV]
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
You continue to do it.
You keep going to revelation
Revelations does not discuss Gen 12 Gen 15 and Gen 17.
You have failed miserably to look at the passage and declair how the PHYSICAL LAND is not physical. How the PHYSICAL NATION is not physical, and how the ETERNAL PROMISE is not eternal.
then you want to attack us and say we are doing something wrong.
Your not helping yourself by continually refusing to look at the passages that we have given to you. You have not even touched lev 26, which tells Israel exactly what will happen if they sin, and what will happen if they repent.
one can only wonder why your so afraid to touch on these passages.. and continue to try to divert the conversation to passages which we have already agreed have do do with either salvation given to all whether jew or gentile. or the punishment to physical Israel based on Lev 26.
You keep going to revelation
Revelations does not discuss Gen 12 Gen 15 and Gen 17.
You have failed miserably to look at the passage and declair how the PHYSICAL LAND is not physical. How the PHYSICAL NATION is not physical, and how the ETERNAL PROMISE is not eternal.
then you want to attack us and say we are doing something wrong.
Your not helping yourself by continually refusing to look at the passages that we have given to you. You have not even touched lev 26, which tells Israel exactly what will happen if they sin, and what will happen if they repent.
one can only wonder why your so afraid to touch on these passages.. and continue to try to divert the conversation to passages which we have already agreed have do do with either salvation given to all whether jew or gentile. or the punishment to physical Israel based on Lev 26.
Your summation is a beautiful thing.
QUOTE
I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.
However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.
This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative!
ALL the GLORY to GOD and HIS CHRIST.
QUOTE
I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.
However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.
This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative!
ALL the GLORY to GOD and HIS CHRIST.
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The verses of The Revelation that I posted pertain to ALL of this world that they will be destroyed. This world will cease to exist and
will be replaced by another- everything gone.
I noticed you did not state whether you are a Christian or not, so I guess that means not.
This discussion has ceased being worth the effort. Terminating now.
will be replaced by another- everything gone.
I noticed you did not state whether you are a Christian or not, so I guess that means not.
This discussion has ceased being worth the effort. Terminating now.
It may appear to be a beautiful thing, but it is quite unbiblical.
Election is NOT to salvation, regardless of how many people have been taught that. Biblical election is all about service, and easily provable.
Jesus Christ is The Chosen (elected) One. Isa 42:1. He is the Savior, and not in need of salvation.
Matt 12:18 - “Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many (the masses).
1 Pet 2:6 - For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
Isa 42:1 - “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
The nation of Israel was chosen to preserve God's Written Word and serve Him, and they, of course, failed all over the OT.
Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Luke 11:54 “He has helped his servant Israel, remembering to be merciful”
Angels are said to be "elect" in 1 Tim 5:21.
Heb 1:7 - In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.”
Heb 1:14 - Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
Rev 19:10 - At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”
Rev 22:8,9 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”
The 12 original disciples/apostles
John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” {Judas was chosen to betray the Lord}
John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you. {a very clear statement about service}
Every believer was elected for service. iow, every believer IS in full-time Christian service. Those who are merely pew warmers are derelict in their duties.
Election is NOT to salvation, regardless of how many people have been taught that. Biblical election is all about service, and easily provable.
Jesus Christ is The Chosen (elected) One. Isa 42:1. He is the Savior, and not in need of salvation.
Matt 12:18 - “Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many (the masses).
1 Pet 2:6 - For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
Isa 42:1 - “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
The nation of Israel was chosen to preserve God's Written Word and serve Him, and they, of course, failed all over the OT.
Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Luke 11:54 “He has helped his servant Israel, remembering to be merciful”
Angels are said to be "elect" in 1 Tim 5:21.
Heb 1:7 - In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.”
Heb 1:14 - Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
Rev 19:10 - At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”
Rev 22:8,9 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”
The 12 original disciples/apostles
John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” {Judas was chosen to betray the Lord}
John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you. {a very clear statement about service}
Every believer was elected for service. iow, every believer IS in full-time Christian service. Those who are merely pew warmers are derelict in their duties.
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