Is there ANYBODY ...OUT THERE!!!
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If you don't mind me sharing a few thoughts please read on.
If you read 1 Corinthians 14, its hard to come away with this understanding. Edification is the point, the edification of the Church. This is about uplifting and exhorting others, in context.
Some things to consider. The believer speaks to God and not men (1 Corinthians 14:2). The believer without interpretation edifies himself, but not others (1 Corinthians 14:4). This is further emphasized when reading 1 Corinthians 14:14-17, as it goes on to say of the believer operating in the gift of tongues that he "gives thanks well enough, but the other is not edified." It also reads, just prior, "else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned sayeth Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?"
Please take note, that tongues regardless of interpretation is edifying. The interpretation part is for the edification of the Church (the context here is to edify the Church) as opposed to the believer being the only one benefiting. So here we find that tongues can edify a person who operates in the gift, and is not "only if there is somebody to understand."
Heres the kicker.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Two things here. Why would he be thankful to God that he spoke in tongues more than them all? One might think it was a boast, but no, it was coming from a place of gratitude. We go back to the beginning of 1 Corinthians 14, and realize that it edifies the person operating in the gift, and it is something between God and the speaker (a means of fellowship).
Secondly, he says, "Yet in the church..." which begs the question. Where else does he speak in tongues? Possibly, maybe, in private?
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 King James Version (KJV)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
That last bit, on the end of verse 28 is interesting isn't it? What should the tongue speaker do if there is no interpreter? "Speak to himself and to God." With what? Don't want to be too much on the nose here, but if I may be so forthright, with the gift of tongues that is used to speak to God and not man, that blesses the spirit and gives thanksgiving unto God and speaks mysteries in the spirit.
I do personally speak in tongues, and can tell you, that one does not need to make audible noise to speak in tongues. Hence it makes sense to "let him speak to himself and to God."
Anyways, I hope this could be of use to you in some manner.
I believe one has to be open to all that God wants to give His people, many people struggle unneccessarily becuase they are so in unbelief about what God can do they actually miss out on miracles.
Jesus couldnt do much miracles in certain areas because of peoples unbelief.
Some examples...the Pharisees who were very strict about the Sabbath, didnt want Jesus healing on the Sababth as it broke their man made traditions...never mind the person who was healed.
When Jesus healed a man that was blind and he could see even that wasnt good enough for some people.
People even went so far to question has this man sinned cos he was blind?
Jesus couldnt do much miracles in certain areas because of peoples unbelief.
Some examples...the Pharisees who were very strict about the Sabbath, didnt want Jesus healing on the Sababth as it broke their man made traditions...never mind the person who was healed.
When Jesus healed a man that was blind and he could see even that wasnt good enough for some people.
People even went so far to question has this man sinned cos he was blind?
If you don't mind me sharing a few thoughts please read on.
If you read 1 Corinthians 14, its hard to come away with this understanding. Edification is the point, the edification of the Church. This is about uplifting and exhorting others, in context.
Some things to consider. The believer speaks to God and not men (1 Corinthians 14:2). The believer without interpretation edifies himself, but not others (1 Corinthians 14:4). This is further emphasized when reading 1 Corinthians 14:14-17, as it goes on to say of the believer operating in the gift of tongues that he "gives thanks well enough, but the other is not edified." It also reads, just prior, "else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned sayeth Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?"
Please take note, that tongues regardless of interpretation is edifying. The interpretation part is for the edification of the Church (the context here is to edify the Church) as opposed to the believer being the only one benefiting. So here we find that tongues can edify a person who operates in the gift, and is not "only if there is somebody to understand."
Heres the kicker.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Two things here. Why would he be thankful to God that he spoke in tongues more than them all? One might think it was a boast, but no, it was coming from a place of gratitude. We go back to the beginning of 1 Corinthians 14, and realize that it edifies the person operating in the gift, and it is something between God and the speaker (a means of fellowship).
Secondly, he says, "Yet in the church..." which begs the question. Where else does he speak in tongues? Possibly, maybe, in private?
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 King James Version (KJV)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
That last bit, on the end of verse 28 is interesting isn't it? What should the tongue speaker do if there is no interpreter? "Speak to himself and to God." With what? Don't want to be too much on the nose here, but if I may be so forthright, with the gift of tongues that is used to speak to God and not man, that blesses the spirit and gives thanksgiving unto God and speaks mysteries in the spirit.
I do personally speak in tongues, and can tell you, that one does not need to make audible noise to speak in tongues. Hence it makes sense to "let him speak to himself and to God."
Anyways, I hope this could be of use to you in some manner.
@PennEd I am curious of your response and thoughts on this. Do the scriptures provided give you some food for thought?
Yes it does. I have to admit that this isn't an issue I have seriously dug into. I'm just certain there is something terribly wrong with so many, especially some Pentecostals, wriggling on the floor, laughing themselves silly, meaningless babblings and slain in the spirit stuff.
But I think there is more to this issue than a simple tongues are done, or tongues are not done.
#10 should be scooted up near #1.
10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.
All these other issues are a moot point if the Bible is not infallible in it's original languages. It would cease to be God's Word. At least Wycliffe believed it was worth dying for.
10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.
All these other issues are a moot point if the Bible is not infallible in it's original languages. It would cease to be God's Word. At least Wycliffe believed it was worth dying for.
O
Omegatime
Guest
We would get along well in most of your theology. My exception is #20, his coming is not imminent but based on time, and #10, I dont think the bible is complete.
O
Oblio
Guest
What wonderful postings this has been---there is discussion of differences done with love and acceptance of others.
John 3:18 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
Proverbs 20:3 It is to one’s honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel.
John 3:18 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
Proverbs 20:3 It is to one’s honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel.
P
pottersclay
Guest
you don't believe in eternal life?
I believe in eternal life for sure.. I just don't believe in the calvin doctrine of eternal security..
Either it's eternal or it isn't ... nowhere are we led to believe we are on probation.
You don't seem to know what the doctrine of eternal security teaches.. If you did you would not have replied to me or linked eternal life with eternal security.. they are two different things..
They shouldn't be.
Eternal security would just be FAITH in eternal life.
Believing in things not seen...
Been a LOT of new people since I started this thread.
I thought it important to bring back up, so we remember that NONE of us believe the exact same things on a whole host of Biblical issues. Like in the 1st post.
We need to remember:
I thought it important to bring back up, so we remember that NONE of us believe the exact same things on a whole host of Biblical issues. Like in the 1st post.
We need to remember:
D
Daisy2
Guest
Most christians should agree on the majority that you have listed
There are two
14 is a a difference of opinion dna has something to do with it I'll agree on that
15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation. Some see that when Jesus rose from the dead and became savior. his rule on earth has already began.
There are two
14 is a a difference of opinion dna has something to do with it I'll agree on that
15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation. Some see that when Jesus rose from the dead and became savior. his rule on earth has already began.
1-10: Agree
No. 11 You're right The Church did not replace Isreal but the Church is Isreal. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed which is Christ. Galatians 3:16 Jesus is the seed of Abraham to whom the promises were made and every true believer in Jesus Christ is part of the Isreal of God, whether they be gentile or Jew. That's what the Bible teaches.
No.12-15: Agree
No. 16 This point has to be clarified. Jesus did say, "No man can come to me except the Father which has sent me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day." But this has to be balanced with other scriptures like this one from 2Peter: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promises as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." And this one from 1Timothy 2:4: "Who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the Knowledge of the Truth." Gods will is for everybody to be saved but in order for somebody to be saved they have to come unto the knowledge of the Truth and repent of their sins, which is a free will decision. So, to clarify, it's like John says in His epistle: "We love Him because he first loved us." We choose Him because He first chooses us. Once He draws us to Him we still have to make the conscious decision to accept Him. Jesus told His disciples, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you", But after Jesus chose them, they still had to make the individual decision to follow Him. So, it actually works both ways: God chooses us, and we choose Him.
No. 17-18. Agree. But I just wanted to add a tidbit of info on 18. There is one way to know for sure if someone has an infilling of the Holy Ghost. The Apostle Paul says, "No man speaking by the Holy Ghost calleth Jesus accursed, neither can any man say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Ghost. Anybody who can say Jesus is Lord of my life has an in filling of the Holy Spirit.
19-20. Disagree, because the rapture happens after the great tribulation and therefore Jesus' return is not going to happen at any moment.
So, how many's that? Looks like I agree with you on 16 points and only disagree with you on 4.