An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation

[Carry_Your_Name]

Can I ask you how Acts 8:18-20 equates to a charismatic heresy - as you say @Absolutely is "barking like a dog and shouting to the top of [his] lungs?

I would also encourage you to respond in a meaningful way. So that would have to be by explaining how the ambition of Simon the Sorcerer to purchase the apostolic authority he witnessed in Peter equates to anything that @Absolutely said.

He said the Holy Spirit is received simply by "laying of hands" in #858. "Laying of hands" and "speaking in tongues" are typical behaviors from charismatic heretics. Just because it was written in Acts that Holy Spirit was received in those few instances doesn't mean it can be duplicated today.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

This place will be properly taken over by baptists and postribbers.

You get what you need.

No pushback.

Sad.
Sad that people are bullied by viscous heretics and cussed out with no sanctions.

There is getting to be a sad pattern here in this forum

If you wanna push back, at least speak in complete sentences and bring meaningful arguemnts like that gentleman above in #1020. All you've been doing is trolling and you don't seem to know anything else except promoting the heresy invented by Darby and Scofield.

 

[Angela53510]

Yeah, you go listen to the "experts", I listen to God. You sound exactly like those talking heads on TV who hide behind the "experts", using their authority as both weapon and shield to fight with opponents, while they themselves are abdicated.

This is exactly the reason your interpretation is so wrong! You rely on your limited knowledge, post verses from a 400 year old Bible with obsolete and archaic words; you have no clue how to do Bible interpretation or hermeneutics; you refuse to read scholarly resources, of people who speak the ancient languages, and who have spent their lives studying this topic- like Beale in his Greek Commentary in Revelation.

You don't know Koine Greek or Biblical Hebrew, and rely on what tools/resources? Oh right, on yourself. No wonder you come up with this convoluted interpretation of Revelation!

Finally you reject everything that had been written on this topic. Are you more inspired than 2000 years of people studying the z Bible? I agree, some did make mistakes, like Darby and Scofield in the 18th century! But a true scholar would check their writing. If only to disagree.

Very tiresome post and thread. Nothing like knowing nothing about Bible interpretation, and trying to reinvent the wheel, when you don't have enough math to know the circumference or surface area of a circle! You are an anti-intellect, and God uses our minds. Without having a background in the languages or even a basic understanding of how to interpret the Bible, leaning towards your own understanding, you are just another person claiming to be a scholar, who doesn't understand that it is too late to invent the wheel!

 

[FreeGrace2]

ISN'T THAT THE BEST PART? WE WILL KNOW FOR SURE SOON ENOUGH

Absolutely!!

 

[FreeGrace2]

.
Comical how i explained what happened and you could not comprehend that I ran out of time.

Oh, I comprehend just fine.

Why can't you comprehend that there will be NO glorified trip to heaven?

Sometimes it posts multiple posts, or even quotes things out of nowhere. Not that you could understand that , as that anomaly supplies more fake fodder for your personal attacks. ( a plus for you as you just demonstrated).

Your posts have been screwed up for quite a while. What I post keeps appearing as coming from you.

I don't know why i am telling you anything since you do not comprehend what people say.

Just more snark. Does it make you feel better?

 

[FreeGrace2]

This place will be properly taken over by baptists and postribbers.

You would be quite welcomed on the "rapture forum".

 

[Rhomphaeam]

He said the Holy Spirit is received simply by "laying of hands" in #858. "Laying of hands" and "speaking in tongues" are typical behaviors from charismatic heretics. Just because it was written in Acts that Holy Spirit was received in those few instances doesn't mean it can be duplicated today.

In @#858 the brother, said:

No
"Born again" is salvation

"Baptism in the Holy Spirit" is via laying on of hands to an already saved individual.
Confirmed several times in acts.
Nobody is ever saved via laying on of hands.

So how does that statement warrant citing a sorceric ambition - as you did do by citing a reference to Simon the Magician and the laying on of hands by Peter in Samaria for the newly saved to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

How is that even plausible unless you cite a doctrinal reason for refusing the baptism of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands?

Anyways, my concern is that you are striving in the flesh and may yield the fruit thereof yourself. It appears that your ambition is to uphold a cessationist position. Is that all? Waste of effort - because unless you are prepared to condemn every single pentecostal and charismatic as not your brother, then neither can you cite them all as being in the same mind as a sorcerer.

You did cite Acts 8:18-20 did you not?

Could you even explain Galatians 5:20 as a source text and meaning to explain your inference of sorcery as a fruit of the flesh?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

This is exactly the reason your interpretation is so wrong! You rely on your limited knowledge, post verses from a 400 year old Bible with obsolete and archaic words; you have no clue how to do Bible interpretation or hermeneutics; you refuse to read scholarly resources, of people who speak the ancient languages, and who have spent their lives studying this topic- like Beale in his Greek Commentary in Revelation.

You don't know Koine Greek or Biblical Hebrew, and rely on what tools/resources? Oh right, on yourself. No wonder you come up with this convoluted interpretation of Revelation!

Finally you reject everything that had been written on this topic. Are you more inspired than 2000 years of people studying the z Bible? I agree, some did make mistakes, like Darby and Scofield in the 18th century! But a true scholar would check their writing. If only to disagree.

Very tiresome post and thread. Nothing like knowing nothing about Bible interpretation, and trying to reinvent the wheel, when you don't have enough math to know the circumference or surface area of a circle! You are an anti-intellect, and God uses our minds. Without having a background in the languages or even a basic understanding of how to interpret the Bible, leaning towards your own understanding, you are just another person claiming to be a scholar, who doesn't understand that it is too late to invent the wheel!

Before you blasted at me, you should've checked what the argument is about - 2 Cor. 5:21 "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." That's the entire gospel encapsulated in one verse. Scholars could be right on any other things and I'm more than happy to spend time to study, but you can't just replace sin with "sin offering" which was defined in Leviticus 4 and not mentioned in the context of 2 Cor. 5 at all. "Sin offering" was a temporary covering of sin by animal blood, Jesus ended that by becoming sin. That's substitutionary atonement, the core doctrine of Christianity. The only kind of people who deny this doctrine is the New Age cultists who only preach the love of God while censor the wrath of God. They even attempted to change this part in the lyrics of In Christ Alone.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

So how does that statement warrant citing a sorceric ambition - as you did do by citing a reference to Simon the Magician and the laying on of hands by Peter in Samaria for the newly saved to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

""Baptism in the Holy Spirit" is via laying on of hands," that's exactly Simon the sorcerer's ambition. Attempting to buy it with money was just one of his sins, he also identified the Holy Spirit as a "power' instead of the third member member of the Holy Trinity, and he presumed that he could pass it by laying of hands like the apostles. And then this "brother" whom you call only quoted 8:14-17, the rest of the chapter about Simon was completely and deliberately left out.

How is that even plausible unless you cite a doctrinal reason for refusing the baptism of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands?

Acts 2:2-4, Holy Spirit came from above like a rushing wind. Nobody laid hand on anybody else, God laid His hand on them. And that was BEFORE they got baptized.

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

Sin doesn't weigh anything. It's intangible. Sin is only symbolically placed upon a sin sacrifice. ......

(Isa 53:3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

(Isa 53:4) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

(Isa 53:5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

(Isa 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

bruised
H1792
דּכא
dâkâ'
BDB Definition:
1) to crush, be crushed, be contrite, be broken
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to be crushed
1a2) to be contrite (figuratively)
1b) (Piel) to crush
1c) (Pual)
1c1) to be crushed, be shattered
1c2) to be made contrite
1d) (Hithpael) to allow oneself to be crushed

God Bless!

 

[Oncefallen]

No you didn't. You were spreading a charismatic heresy. Here is it again, Acts 8:18-20.

"And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! "

Keep barking like a dog and shouting to the top of your lungs with your heresy, you ain't gonna change what the Scripture says.

@Absolutely I find the unashamed hypocrisy displayed by some users here to be disheartening. At 5:00 this morning you reported the post above complaining about the personal attack, and then 30 minutes later you make the identical accusation. As a result, you will get the sanction that you demanded others get.

This place will be properly taken over by baptists and postribbers.

You get what you need.

No pushback.

Sad.
Sad that people are bullied by viscous heretics and cussed out with no sanctions.

There is getting to be a sad pattern here in this forum

 

[Rhomphaeam]

""Baptism in the Holy Spirit" is via laying on of hands," that's exactly Simon the sorcerer's ambition. Attempting to buy it with money was just one of his sins, he also identified the Holy Spirit as a "power' instead of the third member member of the Holy Trinity, and he presumed that he could pass it by laying of hands like the apostles. And then this "brother" whom you call only quoted 8:14-17, the rest of the chapter about Simon was completely and deliberately left out.



Acts 2:2-4, Holy Spirit came from above like a rushing wind. Nobody laid hand on anybody else, God laid His hand on them. And that was BEFORE they got baptized.

You either lack intellect or else you are wilfully malicious.

 

[Oncefallen]

Since this thread has been reduced to a handful of users screaming at each other about doctrine that is no where near the original topic, this thread is now closed