Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[DavidTree]

Where do you find laughter as either a Spiritual gift or Spiritual fruit? I'm still looking for that.

What you're doing is expecting me to just take your word for it. Why should anyone listen to you if you don't don't speak from the scriptures?

I don't listen to strangers.

"If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."—John 8:31-32

Are Christ's words limited to the Gospel?
or
Are His words, as it is written, from Genesis to Revelation?

Does not the scripture say this of Christ:
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

Did not the LORD say this to the Apostles:
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth;
for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

HalleluYah - Open your heart so that the LORD can open your eyes to understanding and you also will laugh in great Joy.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Are Christ's words limited to the Gospel?
or
Are His words, as it is written, from Genesis to Revelation?

Does not the scripture say this of Christ:
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

I know Pentecostals and Charismatics love to focus on the Old Testament. That's the only way they can get any traction for their misguided beliefs; so what you're saying doesn't surprise me.

Did not the LORD say this to the Apostles:
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth;
for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

HalleluYah - Open your heart so that the LORD can open your eyes to understanding and you also will laugh in great Joy.

We finally get to the center of the maze—scripture isn't finished. Sounds like the standard propaganda.

 

[DavidTree]

I know Pentecostals and Charismatics love to focus on the Old Testament. That's the only way they can get any traction for their misguided beliefs; so what you're saying doesn't surprise me.



We finally get to the center of the maze—scripture isn't finished. Sounds like the standard propaganda.

Where did I say scripture is not finished?

I bear witness of Genesis to Revelation and NOT beyond as we wait for His Second Coming.

While you are arguing against scripture and accusing your brethren, the Holy Spirit is moving in and thru those who believe the words of God.

Just a reminder for you: I do not condone false gifts/witnesses and those who make merchandise of the word of God.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Where did I say scripture is not finished?

You didn't say it. You don't have to.

 

[DavidTree]

You didn't say it. You don't have to.

If I did not say it and you accuse me of it - then you sin by bearing false witness against your brother in Christ.

You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’”
Mark 10:19

SEE Post #603

What is more important to you?
Knowing Truth according to the Scripture or arguing against it and those who bear witness to the Truth?

 

[ResidentAlien]

If I did not say it and you accuse me of it - then you sin by bearing false witness against your brother in Christ.

You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’”
Mark 10:19

SEE Post #603

What is more important to you?
Knowing Truth according to the Scripture or arguing against it and those who bear witness to the Truth?

Save it for the chumps. As I said, I don't listen to strangers.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Now, this really goes to the heart of the whole matter. When it gets down to it Pentecostals and Charismatics would love to sweep all of this under the rug and just forget about it, and hope others forget it too. Unfortunately it's out there and ain't goin' away any time soon.

I am so glad it is not going away soon. Having read of so many Pentecostal/charismatics giving up all to go and serve the poor of this world and bring them to Christ, what they do is invaluable to the kingdom of God.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I am so glad it is not going away soon. Having read of so many Pentecostal/charismatics giving up all to go and serve the poor of this world and bring them to Christ, what they do is invaluable to the kingdom of God.

I suppose LDSs and Catholics are to be commended for doing the same?

 

[DavidTree]

You didn't say it. You don't have to.

If I did not say it and you accused me of it - then you sin by bearing false witness against your brother in Christ.

You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’”
Mark 10:19

SEE Post #603

Save it for the chumps. As I said, I don't listen to strangers.

So are you admitting to being lost in your sins and a stranger to the Body of Christ and the Holy Spirit???

This is where I am currently = Ephesians ch2

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Now, therefore, DavidTree and all who believe are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

This is where God is = dwelling in His People = in the Holy Spirit - Amen

 

[mustaphadrink]

I suppose LDSs and Catholics are to be commended for doing the same?

I don't know as I have not studied them and it is my policy not to comment unless I have some knowledge of the matter.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I don't know as I have not studied them and it is my policy not to comment unless I have some knowledge of the matter.

Have thought about a career in politics?

 

[mustaphadrink]

Have thought about a career in politics?

I have been involved in politics for 55 years in some form or another, I have a post graduate degree in Politics and I have taught senior students Politics as a subject.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I have been involved in politics for 55 years in some form or another, I have a post graduate degree in Politics and I have taught senior students Politics as a subject.

Okay, if you say so.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Okay, if you say so.

Why wouldn't I say so if that is the fact? I have no intention in saying things to say "look at me."

 

[oyster67]

I remember a guy who was as saved as saved could be, saved in his own home. Minutes after he was saved two Mormons turned up on his doorstep and bagged him.

We must pray that the Spirit give him light.

 

[Gideon300]

If we’re gonna talk about Pentecostal is it be wise to get the facts straight and your way off. Later you post a video of some unknown person who doesn’t help the kingdom he hurts the kingdom it’s not your kids or my kids he’s touching it’s the children that belong to a God. Some just don’t know how to handle the fact that those that came before us we’re human paid with a price paid in full with one sacrifice it’s the blood of Jesus Christ that cleanses us from all sin we all fall we all miss it we get up dust off keep going help the kingdom speak words of life or get out of his way.

And it’s not the world doing this is it no it’s those that love Jesus Christ so much we show the world how we love each other we forgive each other 70×7 are we expect Jesus to forgive us we demand it but those that came before us didn’t sing against us but we’re gonna remember their faults. Do you know all the good they did what do you look at first you’re the light the light doesn’t see darkness and again through his kids there’s a price to this saying you love Jesus doesn’t do anything for this. The god 1000 years it’s like one day so Chris just told us little over two days ago to love one another as he loves us to forgive one another it’s a free choice this isn’t helping anyone

The problem with TB and those like it is that they are usually non denominational. There is no overseer over the pastor, he's top dog. Sometimes there is a legit move, but it's quickly taken over by opportunists. Then there is no one to stop them from going too far.

My own home church saw this type of movement. It started out slowly and then we began to see things that were not right. We who disagreed talked to the pastor and his response was he didn't want to "steady the ark" even though he didn't totally agree with what people were doing. Before it was over we saw people barking like dogs, "birthing something spiritual" , line dancing, half of the church would fall down "laughing in the spirit". Attending church was like Jumanji people flinging themselves in every direction. Our main people were stunned by it all. Finally they were able to get this pastor out. People had come from all around to see the circus.

By the time we got rid of the pastor and all of his followers and had the main church back again, our people were devastated. It took years to get over the damage that had been done. I had known this pastor all my life and I hate to judge him. But when this movement came people packed the church to the doors and the money was flowing. I've been gone from home for many years and the church is still there today. That pastor moved to the city in another state and I've never heard of him since then. It was a very sad and difficult time for our church.

TB went through most of the Pentecostal and quite a number of non-Pentecostal churches in Australia. It was officially endorsed by what was then known as the AOG and Australia's home grown CRC. I and others spent a year checking this abomination. We started neutral as we had been praying for revival and we hoped that was what we were seeing. Tragically, not. The opposite.

 

[kaylagrl]

TB went through most of the Pentecostal and quite a number of non-Pentecostal churches in Australia. It was officially endorsed by what was then known as the AOG and Australia's home grown CRC. I and others spent a year checking this abomination. We started neutral as we had been praying for revival and we hoped that was what we were seeing. Tragically, not. The opposite.

It wasn't endorsed by PAOC in Canada, nor was Vineyard. Not sure, I didn't live in the US back then. I know Benny Hinn was ousted from the AOG in the US. They told him to stop his "seeing a mist" and foolishness. He refused.

 

[Gideon300]

While I know nothing of these men you speak of, I do however, know of the One who established the Day of Pentecost.

IF there were to be a denominational identity approved by God it would be 'Pentecostal'.

Now, we know that God does not permit denominational entry into the Kingdom of CHRIST.
HE does however emphasize that only Born-Again Children are permitted in.
HE also emphasizes that the Baptism in His Holy Spirit is the 2nd PROMISE of God that we are to CHERISH.

HE who established, forever, His Word is the TREE where only Good Fruit can be found All Year Long.
That TREE is ALIVE and ETERNAL and HE made the Path clear for us to follow.

So the TREE of LIFE leaves you with this Pathway and Unction:

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

First up, no denomination is approved by God. The only NT church that could be described as "Pentecostal" was Corinth. Paul rebuked them for starting splinter groups within the church. To me, that was the start of the first denominations.

The "gifted" church was also the unspiritual church. They also tolerated gross immorality. The meetings were disorderly.

Gifts can be counterfeited. The fruit of the Spirit cannot. I was a member of a Pentecostal church for 5 years. I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Gideon300]

Are Christ's words limited to the Gospel?
or
Are His words, as it is written, from Genesis to Revelation?

Does not the scripture say this of Christ:
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

Did not the LORD say this to the Apostles:
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth;
for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

HalleluYah - Open your heart so that the LORD can open your eyes to understanding and you also will laugh in great Joy.

The problem with Pentecostalism these days is the obsession with the Holy Spirit. Electricity is hidden in wires and it is seen only what it produces, such as light. The Holy Spirit's job is to reveal Jesus to us. The Holy Spirit's work is also to glorify Lord Jesus, as you have quoted. The TB glorified the Holy Spirit, immediately casting doubt on it's authenticity as being of God.

 

[kaylagrl]

First up, no denomination is approved by God. The only NT church that could be described as "Pentecostal" was Corinth. Paul rebuked them for starting splinter groups within the church. To me, that was the start of the first denominations.

The "gifted" church was also the unspiritual church. They also tolerated gross immorality. The meetings were disorderly.

Gifts can be counterfeited. The fruit of the Spirit cannot. I was a member of a Pentecostal church for 5 years. I know what I'm talking about.

I don't know about that. I consider myself a pretty good judge of people considering all the traveling I did, meeting hundreds of people. But after I moved away, the pastor of my home church left his wife for his worship leader. Shocked her, shocked me and everyone who knew him. So yes, I'd say both can be counterfeited. I've been in Pentecostal churches all my life. I think I know a lot more what I'm talking about then RA and others who claim knowledge about it. I attended the church, I traveled and ministered in the churches, I have family that are pastors in the churches. PAOC/ AOG