Repentance

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Jocund said:
The weeds in the garden will continually pop up, a dilligent garden tender will pull out the weeds whenever they are seen. And by reducing the number of weeds in our own garden, we also reduce the number of weeds seeds that are spread to neighbouring gardens by the wind. We can also have the oppose happen, where a beautiful garden can pass its beauty to a neighbouring garden by seeds in the wind from beautiful plants.
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your quote here ------The weeds in the garden will continually pop up

I say
The weeds will continually pop up I agree -------
That is why your Faith seed needs to be sown in Good Soil so it takes deep root and can keep the weeds at bay when they try to come and choke your Faith harvest -------the seed of Faith needs to be grounded and rooted deeply to withstand the weeds -------the weeds will disperse if your Faith seed is fully grounded and rooted in your Good Soil -------so maturing in your Faith Gardening is needed to keep the weeds out --


Your Quote here --------
we also reduce the number of weeds seeds that are spread to neighbouring gardens by the wind. We can also have the oppose happen, where a beautiful garden can pass its beauty to a neighbouring garden by seeds in the wind from beautiful plants

I say ------Well if your seed is being picked up by the wind ---your in trouble as that says your faith seed is on rocky soil and is blowing all over the place and therefore the weeds have full access to choke the seed where ever they end up ----the seed has no root at all and is free to be scattered and devoured by many weeds -----

Deep Roots is needed to keep the weeds at bay -----


1647900142939.jpeg
 
studentoftheword said:
your quote here ------The weeds in the garden will continually pop up

I say
The weeds will continually pop up I agree -------
That is why your Faith seed needs to be sown in Good Soil so it takes deep root and can keep the weeds at bay when they try to come and choke your Faith harvest -------the seed of Faith needs to be grounded and rooted deeply to withstand the weeds -------the weeds will disperse if your Faith seed is fully grounded and rooted in your Good Soil -------so maturing in your Faith Gardening is needed to keep the weeds out --


Your Quote here --------
we also reduce the number of weeds seeds that are spread to neighbouring gardens by the wind. We can also have the oppose happen, where a beautiful garden can pass its beauty to a neighbouring garden by seeds in the wind from beautiful plants

I say ------Well if your seed is being picked up by the wind ---your in trouble as that says your faith seed is on rocky soil and is blowing all over the place and therefore the weeds have full access to choke the seed where ever they end up ----the seed has no root at all and is free to be scattered and devoured by many weeds -----

Deep Roots is needed to keep the weeds at bay -----


View attachment 238073
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03271-Dandelion-with-seeds-blowing-off.jpg
 
Weeds do two basic and depriving things: They eat up valuable nutrients (Christ, the Food - Eat of Him and Live forever) - They also drink up valuable water (the Holy Spirit - Life-giving Water).

They can also choke out the Sun, which is [also} a Life-giving substance (which could also be Christ).

Seed placed in shallow soil (God Himself) does not contain many nutrients nor can it hold any sense of sustaining water.

We must be rooted in the Soil of God so that we might Eat of His Life-giving Nutrient, namely Christ, and so that we might drink of the Water and Live . . . Life-producing Water . . . the Holy Spirit. In such an environment, Holy Seeds will Live but once again, be raised to New Life and become the thriving plant it was intended to become; a Holy Plant that bears much "fruit" / produce.
 
Jocund said:
The Lord's prayer is the correct version of the standing prayer. And even in that sense Jesus states "pray like this" which means it isn't necessary to do so verbatim.

There is no garauntee that the version of the standing prayer you are reading from is actually what was spoken in that time. I think there is good value in comparing Christian customs to cousin religions like modern Judaism, but only with the heaviest of caution that modern Judaism is an antiChrist religion, OT Judaism was not. It is important not to get suckered into the bad doctrine and false historical claims that are present in modern Judaism. There are sprinklings of good things written, much like any pagan religion can have sprinklings of good things. God can speak through many different peoples. That does not make the literature of modern Judaism a safe and idol-free resource to draw upon. Everything should be seen through the lens of the NT, otherwise one gains only a veiled perspective.

If something in the writings of modern Judaism (or alleged 0AD Judaism) resonates with you, follow your heart and mind. Maybe God is speaking through abstract things to say whatever you need to hear. But, be wary of idolizing a culture merely on a claim that they are inheritors of a promise. Especially if your perspective is that those of that culture are just blind to Christ currently, why would you follow the blind when you have the truth in Christ?

Yes, maybe there is something of value that you can draw from the version of the standing prayer you reference, but in a sense only in the same capacity as reading Tarot cards or drawing lots. God will reveal what He needs to reveal to you, and that may be different than what is revealed to someone else (an ear receives messages that an ear needs and a foot receives messages that a foot needs).

Sunlight is the best disinfectant, there should be no issue with reading or observing anything so long as it is consistent with the covenant of Christ. But modern Judaism has become an idol for some Christian believers that can lead people away from the truth, therefore it is prudent to be mindful of this and avoid modern Judaic teachings if you feel the pull of idolatry.
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The Lords Prayer and the standing prayer as it was in Christ's day agree with each other, so if the Lords Prayer is correct then the standing prayer is correct.
 
Blik said:
The Lords Prayer and the standing prayer as it was in Christ's day agree with each other, so if the Lords Prayer is correct then the standing prayer is correct.
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The passage for the Lord's prayer says "pray like this". If you feel that the standing prayer content is the same then there is no issue with going with whatever version you feel is right. It certainly can be correct in that sense.

My point is that you don't know whether that version of the standing prayer was genuinely spoken in Christ's day. You should be extremely cautious about taking an antiChrist's word on the matter. They will also tell you that Jesus was a false prophet that was stoned to death and that he is currently in Shoal being tormented in boiling excrement. They also go to great lengths to reinterpret OT scripture in order to try to exclude the proper contexts of prophecies that point to Christ. And there has been 2000 years to perfect the lie. Moslems take it a step further by claiming "Yes, Jesus is messiah, but he isn't God."

No one should give that version of the standing prayer reverence merely because an antiChrist claims it was spoken back in Jesus' day. We shouldn't idolize antiChrist cultures. Things should stand on their own merits or fall on their lack of merit. Even if you found a written version of the standing prayer from 0AD, that would be a great way to rule out antiChrist influence but that still isn't evidence that it should universally be a considered a correct way to do it. Christ came to correct many things that were being done incorrectly, and when He gave instructions on how to pray the Lord's prayer that takes precedence over any other version.
 
studentoftheword said:
[B]Jocund[/B]------LOL -----nice picture--what your showing is not seed it is allergy Pollen which is your weed blowing around causing people grief --------that is what happens when your not rooted and grounded when the wind comes the weeds attack you -------

Asthma and pollen
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No, those are definitely seeds.

And within the garden metaphor, it is an example where when one person doesn't take care of their weeds as they pop up that it can pass on the weeds to your neighbour's garden.

And you can also have seeds of beautiful flowers be caught by the wind and produce new flowers in others gardens. I've had it happen before.

If you don't understand plants and gardening, this metaphor is not going to resonate with you.
 
Jocund said:
The passage for the Lord's prayer says "pray like this". If you feel that the standing prayer content is the same then there is no issue with going with whatever version you feel is right. It certainly can be correct in that sense.

My point is that you don't know whether that version of the standing prayer was genuinely spoken in Christ's day. You should be extremely cautious about taking an antiChrist's word on the matter. They will also tell you that Jesus was a false prophet that was stoned to death and that he is currently in Shoal being tormented in boiling excrement. They also go to great lengths to reinterpret OT scripture in order to try to exclude the proper contexts of prophecies that point to Christ. And there has been 2000 years to perfect the lie. Moslems take it a step further by claiming "Yes, Jesus is messiah, but he isn't God."

No one should give that version of the standing prayer reverence merely because an antiChrist claims it was spoken back in Jesus' day. We shouldn't idolize antiChrist cultures. Things should stand on their own merits or fall on their lack of merit. Even if you found a written version of the standing prayer from 0AD, that would be a great way to rule out antiChrist influence but that still isn't evidence that it should universally be a considered a correct way to do it. Christ came to correct many things that were being done incorrectly, and when He gave instructions on how to pray the Lord's prayer that takes precedence over any other version.
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Pkease bane the antichrist was is speaking to you.

Christ would not listen to an antichrist. yet there is clearly a connection between the prayer we are to "pray like this" and the standing prayer. If we read it, it is only to get an expanded view of the Lords Prayer. Instead of "hallowed by thy name" there are many attributes of God given for instance.
 
Blik said:
Pkease bane the antichrist was is speaking to you..
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My typing fingers seem to have gone south. I was trying to type a request for the source of this antichrist that you say is speaking. I don't know of an antichrist who repeats the standing prayer.
 
Blik said:
My typing fingers seem to have gone south. I was trying to type a request for the source of this antichrist that you say is speaking. I don't know of an antichrist who repeats the standing prayer.
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Talmudic Judaism (the predominate form of modern Judaism) is an antiChrist religion. Are you looking for specific quotes from the Talmud? I provided examples already, such as that they believe that Jesus was stoned to death, wasn't resurrected, is not God, was a false prophet, possessed by demons, and is currently being tormented in Shoal in boiling excrement. The Talmud also teaches that God does not know the hearts of believers and can be mistaken in his understanding. The god of the Talmud and God of the Bible are fundamentally different characters. All of this together should be a red flag for any Christian.

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." - 1 John 2:22 KJV

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." - 1 John 4:2-4 KJV

AntiChrists are our enemy for the sake of the Gospel, but we are still to have God's love for our enemy. Even Saul would have denied Christ before he became Paul. Calling something antiChrist is not necessarily to say that someone is destined for damnation (as only God can know that) but it is to say that that person is in a bad place in life and on a road to bad things.

By Biblical definition, per 1 John 2:22 and 1 John 4:3, Talmudic Jews are antiChrist and liars in that respect. By those passages, they are not of God. At least, not in their outward spirit. An antiChrist is basically something or someone that desperately and especially needs God's help and intercession for salvation.

Saul/Paul is an interesting point in all of this. Because through his revelation, and through his repentance, Christ set him on the right path. Saul was a liar, antiChrist, and not of God. Paul was of Christ and God. And it was only through his perspective of being an antiChrist that he became such a useful teacher for everyone. God works in mysterious ways, and it does seem that Saul's journey as an antiChrist served God's purposes. The same could be true of any number of people in any number of circumstances. Maybe a murderer finds Christ and becomes a new person, maybe an adulterer, a drunkard, or a thief finds Christ and through their wretched lives they lived before have a deepened understanding of how much they have failed without God the Son, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

When we get passed the sticker shock of "How dare you question the worldly power of modern Judaism!" We see that there an interesting question underneath that can be explored from a Christian perspective untainted by antiChrist perspectives. But believing that anyone that denies Christ can still be of God is a contradiction of 1st John.

If you know anyone that recites the standing prayer but denies Christ, then you do therefore know an antiChrist that repeats the standing prayer.
 
Jocund said:
Talmudic Judaism (the predominate form of modern Judaism) is an antiChrist religion. Are you looking for specific quotes from the Talmud? I provided examples already, such as that they believe that Jesus was stoned to death, wasn't resurrected, is not God, was a false prophet, possessed by demons, and is currently being tormented in Shoal in boiling excrement. The Talmud also teaches that God does not know the hearts of believers and can be mistaken in his understanding. The god of the Talmud and God of the Bible are fundamentally different characters. All of this together should be a red flag for any Christian.

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." - 1 John 2:22 KJV

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." - 1 John 4:2-4 KJV

AntiChrists are our enemy for the sake of the Gospel, but we are still to have God's love for our enemy. Even Saul would have denied Christ before he became Paul. Calling something antiChrist is not necessarily to say that someone is destined for damnation (as only God can know that) but it is to say that that person is in a bad place in life and on a road to bad things.

By Biblical definition, per 1 John 2:22 and 1 John 4:3, Talmudic Jews are antiChrist and liars in that respect. By those passages, they are not of God. At least, not in their outward spirit. An antiChrist is basically something or someone that desperately and especially needs God's help and intercession for salvation.

Saul/Paul is an interesting point in all of this. Because through his revelation, and through his repentance, Christ set him on the right path. Saul was a liar, antiChrist, and not of God. Paul was of Christ and God. And it was only through his perspective of being an antiChrist that he became such a useful teacher for everyone. God works in mysterious ways, and it does seem that Saul's journey as an antiChrist served God's purposes. The same could be true of any number of people in any number of circumstances. Maybe a murderer finds Christ and becomes a new person, maybe an adulterer, a drunkard, or a thief finds Christ and through their wretched lives they lived before have a deepened understanding of how much they have failed without God the Son, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

When we get passed the sticker shock of "How dare you question the worldly power of modern Judaism!" We see that there an interesting question underneath that can be explored from a Christian perspective untainted by antiChrist perspectives. But believing that anyone that denies Christ can still be of God is a contradiction of 1st John.

If you know anyone that recites the standing prayer but denies Christ, then you do therefore know an antiChrist that repeats the standing prayer.
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Christ did not use the talmud. The talmud is of man, and Christ is God. Christ used the standing prayer.
 
Blik said:
Christ used the standing prayer.
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I'm not saying your necessarily wrong in this case, but by what evidence do you come to this conclusion?

If it is by "Jews that use the standing prayer today" how do you rule out antiChrist tainting?

If it is by archaeological evidence, how have you come to the conclusion that this was the way Christ prayed?
 
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I like this rendition of the section of the Standing Prayer that you've shown me, @Blik . I love it! Check out the difference in phrasing:

"Bring us back, Our Father, to Your instruction; draw us near, Our King, to Your service; and cause us to return to You in perfect repentance. Blessed are You, Oh Lord, who delights in repentance."

This translation comes from the site in the link below:

The Spoken Word Church - The Amidah - "The Standing Prayer"

This states what I have found the Bible to state, which is that Repentence is granted. A person is enabled to repent. It is stated several times and through different translations, that repentance is given . . . not chosen.

NASB - "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

NKJV - "But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."

By the way, the 2nd Timothy passage above points out the clear doctrine that we are to ignore ignorant, foolish disputes. True Servants of the Lord will not quarrel but be gentle to all. This is precisely why I consistently point out that we are making a massive mistake in our continual arguing. I will continue to point out this evil nonsense.
 
Jocund said:
I'm not saying your necessarily wrong in this case, but by what evidence do you come to this conclusion?

If it is by "Jews that use the standing prayer today" how do you rule out antiChrist tainting?

If it is by archaeological evidence, how have you come to the conclusion that this was the way Christ prayed?
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If we toss out all history by any source, we might toss something out that is not truth, but certainly we also are going to miss the truth.

When I studied scripture telling of the return of the Jews from Babylon, I found some rich words from the Lord. They gathered the elders to reconstruct their knowledge of the Lord that had been lost in Babylon. History tells us that part of that was giving us the standing prayer. It is preserved in Jewish tradition, not in the canon, so it has to be looked at carefully to be sure it is agreement with Christ. I passes that test so well that the Lords Prayer is a condensed version.

We are told that it was a prayer used 400 years before Christ, when the Jews returned from Babylon. It is used today. It would be very strange if Christ did not use it when he translated it.
 
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