Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

[Phoneman-777]

Do you believe Lazarus was raised from the dead? And several others? Or were they parables as well…

Lazarus was raised. Samuel was not. He will be raised in the resurrection of the just.

If you believe the spirit was actually “Samuel” who died and was in heaven (for Solomon is clear the “SPIRIT SHALL RETURN TO GOD” when a person dies), why did “Samuel” rise UP from somewhere instead of ascending DOWN from heaven???

 

[Phoneman-777]

Where is the scripture you are eluding to? Thanks.

Jude 7

 

[Phoneman-777]

I already answered that.

Unless you answered “no”, you answered wrong

 

[posthuman]

If you believe the spirit was actually “Samuel”

if you believe it was Samuel, you believe the Bible.
if you do not believe it was Samuel, you do not believe the Bible.

the woman saw Samuel
(1 Samuel 28:12)

Saul perceived that it was Samuel
(1 Samuel 28:14)

Now Samuel said to Saul
(1 Samuel 28:15)

Then Samuel said
(1 Samuel 28:16)

the words of Samuel
(1 Samuel 28:20)



​

 

[posthuman]

If you believe the spirit was actually “Samuel”

the text does not happen to say 'a spirit'

And the king saith to her,​

'Do not fear; for what hast thou seen?'​

and the woman saith unto Saul,​

'Elohim I have seen coming up out of the earth.'​

(2 Samuel 28:13 YLT) ​

​

ויאמר לה המלך אל תיראי כי מה ראית ותאמר האשה אל שאול אלהים ראיתי עלים מן הארץ׃​

 

[posthuman]

Brother, you fight against o.s.a.s ...can i annoy you to the max and ask you to check this thread out? https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...her-look-at-the-garden-of-eden.204589/page-11

"calling all heretics" lol

 

[John146]

Lazarus was raised. Samuel was not. He will be raised in the resurrection of the just.

If you believe the spirit was actually “Samuel” who died and was in heaven (for Solomon is clear the “SPIRIT SHALL RETURN TO GOD” when a person dies), why did “Samuel” rise UP from somewhere instead of ascending DOWN from heaven???

That‘s the whole point. It wasn’t the spirit of Samuel returning to his body. It was not a physical resurrection, rather his soul was brought up from Abraham’s bosom. The soul and spirit are not the same.

Man is a tri-part being, made in the image of God…body, soul, and spirit. See 1 Thessalonians 5:23. Three parts make up the whole.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Obey-JESUS]

Jude 7

Brother, maybe i can get your attention to go to the other thread by reading this:


JESUS is The Life, sin is death and separation. Remind me how you are in a Relationship with Him with death in your fallen life?

SALVATION is freedom from sin slavery ...being in The Book of LIFE.

sin slavery is wanting to remain a slave to wicked intentions. it is wanting to continue living in death by eating from the wrong tree.

the tree of knowledge (of good and evil) is man's doctrine claiming who has SALVATION. You want to keep your rotten life so you hide behind a bush of repeated Repentance. Your doctrine is using CHRIST'S Name to sin ...you are going to burn for it.

 

[Phoneman-777]

why are you ignoring definitions from KJV Bible Dictionary?

ignoring exactly what?

 

[Phoneman-777]

That‘s the whole point. It wasn’t the spirit of Samuel returning to his body. It was not a physical resurrection, rather his soul was brought up from Abraham’s bosom. The soul and spirit are not the same.

Man is a tri-part being, made in the image of God…body, soul, and spirit. See 1 Thessalonians 5:23. Three parts make up the whole.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Why do you insist on calling man a “tri-part” when Genesis 2:7 KJV says he’s only a “bi-part”?

Genesis 2:7 KJV plainly says the Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life.

 

[John146]

Why do you insist on calling man a “tri-part” when Genesis 2:7 KJV says he’s only a “bi-part”?

Genesis 2:7 KJV plainly says the Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life.

That’s your private interpretation…

 

[gb9]

That’s your private interpretation…

That’s your private interpretation…

actually , probably ellen white's interpretation , since that is who he follows.

 

[TheLearner]

Lazarus was raised. Samuel was not. He will be raised in the resurrection of the just.

If you believe the spirit was actually “Samuel” who died and was in heaven (for Solomon is clear the “SPIRIT SHALL RETURN TO GOD” when a person dies), why did “Samuel” rise UP from somewhere instead of ascending DOWN from heaven???

OT saints were took to heaven around the Resurrection

 

[TheLearner]

Jude 7

start at #2,142

 

[Duckybill]

How's this
Hell will be filled with those who believe in Hell! Because hell is a false doctrine.

Why would Jesus burn someone in Hell for quoting Him? You have it backwards.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So what happens to those sent to an unreal place? Maybe they get "unrealed". That's annihilation!

No Scripture? Of course you don't! I do.

Luke 16
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"

Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell!

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Why would Jesus burn someone in Hell for quoting Him? You have it backwards.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Hell mongering impugns the Character of God and Jesus. Blasphemy is condemned not rewarded.
1 Tim 6:1Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

You revel about the concept of hell full of strife and pain contrary to the Godly Doctrine.
1 Tim 6:3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

You quote some verses but do not conform the rest which you ignore. You create fantasies to support your premise
1 Tim 6:4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

No Scripture? Of course you don't! I do.

Luke 16
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"

Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell!

You might have me here. I was at a loss why God would send someone to mount olympus or asgard - i.e. places that don't exist like hell. Then it hit me.

I said "So what happens to those sent to an unreal place?" - I never said God or Jesus sent him specifically. So in the case an arbitrary person A sending himself A to an unreal place, in theory would get himself Judged by God and sent to the second death because they have added the Scriptures.

Hell, mount olympus, asgards, etc.. are not explicitly written in the bible, hence the unwritten eisegetical premise is imposed. That is adding to the Scriptures.

Revelation 22:18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Hence, non existence is likely - maybe. "Maybe they get "unrealed". That's annihilation!"

 

[Duckybill]

Hell mongering impugns the Character of God and Jesus. Blasphemy is condemned not rewarded.

Jesus is not a "hellmongerer". Quoting Jesus does not make someone a "hellmonger".
Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.


1 Tim 6:1Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

You revel about the concept of hell full of strife and pain contrary to the Godly Doctrine.[/QUOTE]
That's a lie.

1 Tim 6:3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

You quote some verses but do not conform the rest which you ignore. You create fantasies to support your premise
1 Tim 6:4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

How ironic since you avoid the Scriptures of Hell like plague.

You might have me here. I was at a loss why God would send someone to mount olympus or asgard - i.e. places that don't exist like hell. Then it hit me.

I said "So what happens to those sent to an unreal place?" - I never said God or Jesus sent him specifically. So in the case an arbitrary person A sending himself A to an unreal place, in theory would get himself Judged by God and sent to the second death because they have added the Scriptures.

Hell, mount olympus, asgards, etc.. are not explicitly written in the bible, hence the unwritten eisegetical premise is imposed. That is adding to the Scriptures.

Revelation 22:18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Hence, non existence is likely - maybe. "Maybe they get "unrealed". That's annihilation!"

ONLY if you believe Jesus lied!

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Duckybill]

Hell mongering impugns the Character of God and Jesus. Blasphemy is condemned not rewarded.
1 Tim 6:1Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

You revel about the concept of hell full of strife and pain contrary to the Godly Doctrine.
1 Tim 6:3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

You quote some verses but do not conform the rest which you ignore. You create fantasies to support your premise
1 Tim 6:4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,



You might have me here. I was at a loss why God would send someone to mount olympus or asgard - i.e. places that don't exist like hell. Then it hit me.

I said "So what happens to those sent to an unreal place?" - I never said God or Jesus sent him specifically. So in the case an arbitrary person A sending himself A to an unreal place, in theory would get himself Judged by God and sent to the second death because they have added the Scriptures.

Hell, mount olympus, asgards, etc.. are not explicitly written in the bible, hence the unwritten eisegetical premise is imposed. That is adding to the Scriptures.

Revelation 22:18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Hence, non existence is likely - maybe. "Maybe they get "unrealed". That's annihilation!"

ONLY if you believe Jesus lied.

Luke 16
"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Jesus is not a "hellmongerer". Quoting Jesus does not make someone a "hellmonger".
Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Are we in court? Here is the context
Matt 5:25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
I am saying you are peddling a doctrine not espoused by the Scriptures.

That's a lie.

Just look at what you said about the the pain of the rich guy. This is the behaviour of an ideologue. I can almost hear the cackling laughter (I think it was the caps)

How ironic since you avoid the Scriptures of Hell like plague.

I did a study of the terms eternal correlated with torment, etc 5 times in the NT out of 196 has hellish dimensions within the verse. 10 times if it is within the same chapter. The rest concerns life, joy happiness, kingdom, etc...
I don't make theology out of 5 verses where none are explicit. Only people who draw on their own imagination make things up to fill the gaps. It is self-evident as you quote only a few verses aeon to aeon.

ONLY if you believe Jesus lied!

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Here is what is ironic. I happened on your spiel about Michael and Jesus. The very same principle you cite to reject Michael as Jesus is the same as when you consider hell. It is not explicitly written in the Scriptures.
This double standard is indicative of ideology, not belief.

 

[TheLearner]

read to here