Are we in the end times ?

[Goliath]

There have been many signs of the end times throughout history, but this generation seems to have one we not previously seen....

This know also: that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, without selfcontrol, fierce, despisers of those who are good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. From such turn away.
(2 Timothy 3:1-5)

Look at all the folks taking selfies, putting them online...wanting everyone to see how beautiful or handsome they are. Wanting people to follow them on social sites...etc..etc..etc..
Narcissism gone wild!!

 

[shittim]

"Holy" is to be set apart for God, giving Him first place, to my understanding.
If that be true, any of us living to ourselves and not giving Him 1st place with every thought, word and deed, praying without ceasing in the Divine prayer language, and perceiving and walking out His guidance, is then unholy, that is a very high standard to meet.
He deserves this.
bless you brother

 

[Mem]

"I" am no way implying that Jesus is a liar. What I stated is that those who refuse to honor His plain teaching and WORDS about His SOON return in His generation make Him a liar.

My interpretation is a biblical interpretation. Please ask a question that we can consider with Scripture instead of condemning outright.

It is NOT an Amillennial view. The millennium teaching of most churches today is based upon a rigid insistence on ONE THOUSAND years. This term is couched in a book of SYMBOLS and, therefore, does not require an actual span of one thousand years. Large rounded numbers are consistently found in Scripture as symbolic. The "one thousand years" is representative of the 40-year span between Jesus' ascension and return. Forty is also a very symbolic number used to define a time of testing or of a change in God's dealings with His people.

Jesus and His apostles made numerous statements concerning His return. These are unfortunately twisted or ignored by most Christians. At the heart of this rejection is the misconception of the NATURE of the Parousia, the Resurrection, and the Judgment. The futurist understanding of these events will never find harmony with the timing. Scripture is clear that the Second Coming of Christ in CLOUDS was not to be bodily or necessarily visible to everyone who has ever lived. Nor is the resurrection physical bodies popping up out of their graves. Furthermore, the Judgment was for a specific people (Old Covenant, apostate Jews guilty of all the righteous blood shed on the earth) and for a specific time--the time when the "elements" of Judaism and the Mosaic Law were "melted with fervent heat." A.D. 70!

When one understands the biblical nature of the Parousia, the Resurrection, and the Judgment, there is no disharmony with the clear timing. TIMING dictate NATURE. Futurists should refrain from foisting the tenets of their paradigm upon our beliefs. Disagree with our paradigm if you must, but please allow our tenets to speak for themselves.

Ok so then, you must believe that death and hell has already been cast into the lake of fire and there is no more death?

 

[Lanolin]

sounds like it describes the baby boomer generation to a t

the selfish generaration

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

sounds like it describes the baby boomer generation to a t

the selfish generaration

They are a generation of weak men created by good times. Millennials are the weakest men who have created super hard times.

 

[shittim]

Hmm.... Wonder if the people who raised such have any responsibility for this?
No wonder so many gen x blame everyone else for everything, they learned it from the model the parents made.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

It does not have to be the end of time to just be the end of a civilization whose shameful generations did nothing but defend evil all of the time. Woe to the four shameful generations of America, woe to them! A Sword Cometh for them unless they will make the acknowledgements that their ways were wrong, and acknowledge that all the curses they have seen in the past 2 years it is the Lord God who has judged them, powerful and just is he. Woe to them, A Sword Cometh!

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

Your interpretations speak for themselves. They are easy to dismiss by those you call "futurist" not because they were tainted by "futurists" books but because the plain reading of the scripture is enough to give us faith that Jesus is coming the power and Glory of the Father and in that day we will be transformed and transfigured as Peter taught. We have this expectation and hope by reading scriptures and we have the Holy Spirit to teach us, so that we can discern when an interpretation that Jesus already came in 70AD is a false teaching and we reject it.

9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

That did not happen in 70AD. Any attempt to say that Jesus came back in the clouds visibly for those people who were spoken to, alone and that they were the ones who saw Jesus come back in the clouds already is a made up lie. And those that have the Holy Spirit know it is a lie. We have the Holy Spirit to teach us at least that much.

Of course one must consider who is speaking, and who is being spoken to, but that does not mean that we are not included in a promise that Jesus is coming again in the clouds in the Glory of the Father and that every eye shall see him is not for us.

We have this promise repeated to more than one group of believers. There comes a point when any reasonable thinking person understands when the promise it applicable to all churches and not just one, such as 2 Thess 1 when the promise to avenge the persecuted at His coming applies to all persecuted churches, from the first century, the middle ages, and today.

Everyone can read Acts 1:9 above and 2 Thess 1 and know that the coming of the Lord in these passages is still future.

When you say, we must consider who is being spoken to and then say it was not for us, we reject that as not true at all. We understand who is being spoken to and we also understand that it applies to us too.

Your reasoning is faulty because nothing was written to you personally. You can't apply any of it to you. You might as well just quit reading the bible if you can't apply it to yourself because it was not spoken to you directly.

We know when to apply it to us and when not to based on rules of hermeneutics. 2 Thess 1 applied to their situation but the truth that applied to their situation applied to any other church that was also suffering as they were, which we know were many of them.

5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Now even you would agree that if the church at Thyatria, or Corinth, or Ephesus was suffering persecution (and they all did at some point even post 70AD) that this promise would be applicable to them also.

Therefore the day of the Lord when he comes in the glory of his power to recompense their adversaries and reward them and be admired in ALL OF HIS SAINTS is applicable to all of his saints. We understand this passage because we have so many others that go along with it. We will be glorified in that day and judgment will be poured out on the ungodly. It has not happened yet.

10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

This is obviously about more than the Thessalonians. Any attempt to make it only about the Thessalonians is a flagrant attempt to wrestle the Word of God into fitting your own narrative and not what the author intended.

This is what is clear: Paul spoke about specific persecution being meted out to a specific group of people at a specific time in history. Paul is writing to those very Thessalonians. He commends THEM for THEIR faith and encourages THEM and comforts THEM in knowing that THEY, in THEIR lifetimes, will be vindicated and THEIR enemies (those JEWS living in THEIR time) would be sorely judged and given a taste of their own medicine. THAT is the context and the AUDIENCE RELEVANCE. When would THEY be vindicated? When would THEIR enemies be judged and removed? The text is clear. AT HIS APPEARING. THEY were to personally in THEIR lifetimes be rescued and given relief from their enemies. There is no justification for removing the HISTORICAL SETTING of this passage and applying it to any other generation!

I never said that those of that day would see Christ visibly. Perhaps they did, but that is not the point. The OT Jews did not SEE the visible coming of God when He brought judgment upon them through their enemies. They saw the EVIDENCE through the destruction that came to them (e.g. the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple) and through their being taken into captivity. What was the LIKE manner in Acts 1? Where were the "every eye" who should have seen Him leave? Where were the mighty angels gathering together the elect? Where was the loud trumpet sound? He did NOT leave that way. You refuse to acknowledge the significance of the CLOUDS. Do an OT study of their force. Jesus did not tell Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin (Mt. 26:64) that they would see Him come visibly and bodily. That was not His point. The context was Jesus' claim to deity. It was for this reason that the high priest tore his clothes. That is the subject. By telling THEM that they would see HIM coming on the CLOUDS OF HEAVEN, He was boldly stating to THEM that He was God. He did that through associating Himself with CLOUDS--a symbol of God's presence, power, and glory! Notice also that they are the clouds of HEAVEN (God's dwelling place) and not of the earthly sky.

Your own concept of like manner does not match His return. Why do you accuse others?

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

Every day is one day closer to the Rapture, but we may die in the next five minutes. Either way, the time to get ready is NOW.

There is no Rapture. That is a misinterpretation of Scripture.

 

[peldom10]

There is no Rapture. That is a misinterpretation of Scripture.

Please show scripture that there is NO rapture.
Further, explain how we are to get from this physical life to a spiritual life and eternity?
Perhaps I missed it.

 

[peldom10]

We are going thru pre-tribulation conditions leading to the rapture.
We must be very close to God pulling the curtain on this era as man's day, the church age, day of grace. All the prophetic signs are present for the first time in history.
What we don't know is how long God will allow such to continue before the rapture.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

That did not happen in 70AD.

Right.

"...will thus come in which manner you beheld Him going / journeying / traveling into heaven"





["will thus come in which manner YOU BEHELD..."... which most certainly DID NOT take place in 70ad. Agreed! But at the "MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" (2Th2:8b... distinct occurrence from v.1), that will indeed be when "EVERY EYE" existing on the earth at that time WILL "SEE" Him ("journeying / traveling" back down to the earth Rev19)]

 

[Thewatchman]

Yes we are in the final generation; the generation of the fig tree

 

[peldom10]

Yes we are in the final generation; the generation of the fig tree

I conclude you are applying a Euphonism of sorts but, applicable meaning of fig tree with generation is obscured.

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

Please show scripture that there is NO rapture.
Further, explain how we are to get from this physical life to a spiritual life and eternity?
Perhaps I missed it.

We get from this physical dwelling to a heavenly dwelling when our physical bodies die and return to dust in the earth. I don't have to prove that there is no rapture--rapturists need to prove that there is. The "evidence" is lacking. Please show scripture that there IS a rapture.

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

Yes we are in the final generation; the generation of the fig tree

How are we in "the final generation"? How are WE "the generation of the fig tree"? There is NO fig-tree generation taught in Scripture and there is NO teaching of any FINAL generation.

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

Right.

"...will thus come in which manner you beheld Him going / journeying / traveling into heaven"





["will thus come in which manner YOU BEHELD..."... which most certainly DID NOT take place in 70ad. Agreed! But at the "MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" (2Th2:8b... distinct occurrence from v.1), that will indeed be when "EVERY EYE" existing on the earth at that time WILL "SEE" Him ("journeying / traveling" back down to the earth Rev19)]

WHAT is the CONTEXT of Revelation 1:9? First of all, it falls with the time restraints John is given in chapters 1 and 22. He was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place; the time was NEAR (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10).

NOWHERE in 1:9 is it taught that "every eye existing on the earth at that time" would see it. The every eye is found within the scope of "the tribes of the LAND" and "THOSE who pierced Him." Words such a "every" very often are constrained to the members of a restricted group. For example, when my kids where young, they attended Word of Life at Church. If they went to a certain activity, when they returned I might ask them, "Who was there." They sometimes said, "Everyone was there." Was EVERYONE throughout the whole world there? Of course not. The word was confined by the circumstances and the setting. The same is true of Revelation 1:9. Just as "every eye" of those "tribes of the land" of OT Israel SAW God's coming in judgment against them through the Babylonians and the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, so "every eye" of those Jews Jesus condemned in Matthew 23 (cf. Mat. 26:64) saw His coming in judgment against THEM in A.D. 70. That is the CONTEXT. It is egregious eisegesis to make this about us or about any other people.

 

[Oblio]

Are we in the end times? In my opinion, probably, though I don't want to live anywhere near the great tribulation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

it falls with the time restraints John is given in chapters 1 and 22. He was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place

First of all, the word "SHORTLY" is not in the text (of 1:1 / 22:6).

And as long as you keep insisting that it IS [the word "SHORTLY," as you do here again ^ ], you will start off on the wrong foot as far as "interpreting" [the Book] goes.

The things that John was "SHOW[N]" start in 4:1 (COME UP HERE AND I WILL SHOW YOU what things must take place AFTER THESE [what 1:1 was talking about when referencing "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... not "SHORTLY [adverb]"... not "SOON [adverb]"... not "QUICKLY [adverb]"... not "IMMEDIATELY [adverb]"... not "SPEEDILY [adverb]"...)


Rev1:7 (re: EVERY EYE") is what will occur AFTER the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period [/set of things which must come to pass] fully transpires, which is what is happening in Revelation 19 when HE "COMES" (i.e. "RETURNS" to the earth, per Luke 19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN" [parallel Matt25:14-30] and Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [parallel Matt24:36-51 / Mk13:32-37] which Lk12 passage says "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the MEAL [G347; used in Matt8:11 and parallel; speaking of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19]").









____________


For those who do not believe there will be a future earthly MK age following Rev19, CONSIDER:


--Rev19:19-21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (Armageddon time-frame; His Second Coming to the earth)

...CONNECTS WITH...

--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], following which there is a stated "TIME-PERIOD," before...


... before the [LATER-occuring] SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] will take place AFTER the stated "TIME-PERIOD" which INTERVENES the TWO (this SECOND one ["PUNISH"], aligning with the LATER GWTj point in time, in Rev20:11-15)...
THUS, in the exact same way that Revelation 19 & 20 ALSO conveys an INTERVENING SPANS OF TIME between the two.


[and one of the reasons why Isaiah 24-27 is commonly called "the little apocalypse"]

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

First of all, the word "SHORTLY" is not in the text (of 1:1 / 22:6).

And as long as you keep insisting that it IS [the word "SHORTLY," as you do here again ^ ], you will start off on the wrong foot as far as "interpreting" [the Book] goes.

The things that John was "SHOW[N]" start in 4:1 (COME UP HERE AND I WILL SHOW YOU what things must take place AFTER THESE [what 1:1 was talking about when referencing "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... not "SHORTLY [adverb]"... not "SOON [adverb]"... not "QUICKLY [adverb]"... not "IMMEDIATELY [adverb]"... not "SPEEDILY [adverb]"...)


Rev1:7 (re: EVERY EYE") is what will occur AFTER the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period [/set of things which must come to pass] fully transpires, which is what is happening in Revelation 19 when HE "COMES" (i.e. "RETURNS" to the earth, per Luke 19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN" [parallel Matt25:14-30] and Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [parallel Matt24:36-51 / Mk13:32-37] which Lk12 passage says "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the MEAL [G347; used in Matt8:11 and parallel; speaking of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19]").









____________


For those who do not believe there will be a future earthly MK age following Rev19, CONSIDER:


--Rev19:19-21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (Armageddon time-frame; His Second Coming to the earth)

...CONNECTS WITH...

--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], following which there is a stated "TIME-PERIOD," before...


... before the [LATER-occuring] SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] will take place AFTER the stated "TIME-PERIOD" which INTERVENES the TWO (this SECOND one ["PUNISH"], aligning with the LATER GWTj point in time, in Rev20:11-15)...
THUS, in the exact same way that Revelation 19 & 20 ALSO conveys an INTERVENING SPANS OF TIME between the two.


[and one of the reasons why Isaiah 24-27 is commonly called "the little apocalypse"]

Keep on twisting Scripture to fit your preconceived ideas and you will never understand.

SHORTLY means SHORTLY and NEAR means NEAR. You can redefine them and manipulate them all you want, but that will not change the fact that even "IN QUICKNESS" is easily understood (especially with its connection to NEAR) as SOON. There are MANY time indicators that you twist to support your false paradigm. You don't like the clear meaning and commonly understood meaning of THIS generation, so you make it THAT generation.

Tell me this. John was told to NOT seal of the vision because the time was NEAR. Daniel, however, was told TO seal up the vision because it was for a time far off. It is almost unanimously understood that the fulfillment came merely hundreds of years later with the Advent of Christ and life of Christ. You and other futurists contend that John's vision is STILL not fulfilled--nearly TWO THOUSAND years later. How is 2,000 years NEAR while hundreds of years are FAR OFF?: They are not. John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place, the fulfillment was NEAR.

What is your problem with John's words in Revelation 1:19? What are the "these things" John was to write of? John was given a vision of the Son of Man. He was NOT shown all the things that would take place in THAT vision. He was simple instructed to write them in a book when he saw them and he was to then send the book to the churches. The things that were to SHORTLY take place (i.e. NEAR) were not revealed to him in Revelation 1:9-20. He merely received the instructions to write them when he saw them. He was to write the things he had seen, the things which then were, and then the things which were about to transpire (e.g. Jesus' words to the churches). After Jesus' words to the churches, John was taken "up" and THEN he was shown the things which would take place (e.g. the seven seals, the sealing of the 144,000, the seven trumpets, etc.). There is no 2-thousand year gap.

THIS generation means THIS generation and none other. All of the things Jesus told His disciples who were standing right there with Him were to happen in THEIR day. He told them so. Why do you not believe the words of Our Lord?