Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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read again brightfame52
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.
vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
God allows mankind to restrain, suppress, hinder the truth in unrighteousness
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō - restrain, suppress, hinder] the truth in unrighteousness
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
those who restrain, suppress, hinder the truth in unrighteousness do so of their own accord. God has revealed the truth and they reject Him ... to their own detriment
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Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
kinda foolish to disagree with God ... are your "good works" revealed when you don't believe what is written???
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John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
not according to Scripturebrightfame52 said:
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.
vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
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James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Abraham believed God, with True faith with works, which means he worked righteousness, by his own free will:
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
And his True faith, was counted as righteousness. The word "counted" or "imputed" doesn't mean it was forcibly injected against his free will. It just means it was another good deed of Abraham, had Abraham not worked righteousness, he would have dead faith, but because he worketh righteousness out of his free will, he was declared righteous.
The fact that Abraham was justified proves he was righteous:
Exodus 23:7 [...] I will not justify the wicked.
Abraham was a righteous man with True faith, he wasn't made righteous by another.
Justified by His Death alone !
Rom 6:7
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
7 for he that hath died is justified from sin.
That those Christ died for are Justified solely by His Death is seen here in the above scriptures.
He who hath died or is dead is freed from sin. that word freed is the greek word dikaioó:
I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
This is because by Christ's death alone they have been cleared of all charges by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified !
Now this is true of all for whom Christ died, simply because, all for whom He died, God reckons it as if they died, because He died in the place and in their behalf, when He died for their sins 1 Cor 15:3 or when He was delivered for their offences Rom 4:25.
By Him being their Head and Substitute, when He died, so did they as far as the reckoning of Divine Law and Justice is concerned; Just like when they were in Adam, when he died they died,however when they died in adam that death brought to them condemnation, but the death they died in Christ when He died for them, that death brought about their Justification Rom 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
This is basically what Rom 6:7 is saying. So it is by His Death alone apart from anything they do, they are Justified before God. They are freed[Justified] from sin ! 8
Rom 6:7
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
7 for he that hath died is justified from sin.
That those Christ died for are Justified solely by His Death is seen here in the above scriptures.
He who hath died or is dead is freed from sin. that word freed is the greek word dikaioó:
I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
This is because by Christ's death alone they have been cleared of all charges by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified !
Now this is true of all for whom Christ died, simply because, all for whom He died, God reckons it as if they died, because He died in the place and in their behalf, when He died for their sins 1 Cor 15:3 or when He was delivered for their offences Rom 4:25.
By Him being their Head and Substitute, when He died, so did they as far as the reckoning of Divine Law and Justice is concerned; Just like when they were in Adam, when he died they died,however when they died in adam that death brought to them condemnation, but the death they died in Christ when He died for them, that death brought about their Justification Rom 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
This is basically what Rom 6:7 is saying. So it is by His Death alone apart from anything they do, they are Justified before God. They are freed[Justified] from sin ! 8
Rom 4:25 confirms that they were Justified when Christ rose from the dead after He having died for their offences. All for whom Christ died have been Justified before God apart from their faith, in fact before they are born.read again brightfame52
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.
vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
God allows mankind to restrain, suppress, hinder the truth in unrighteousness
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō - restrain, suppress, hinder] the truth in unrighteousness
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
those who restrain, suppress, hinder the truth in unrighteousness do so of their own accord. God has revealed the truth and they reject Him ... to their own detriment
.
daniell
False Abraham, As all believers were made righteous by Christs obedience Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
False Abraham, As all believers were made righteous by Christs obedience Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
You who say this do not know what is free-will, and how it is possible to be really good; that he who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice.
Abraham was justified right then and there. Christ only came after many many years. Abraham didn't wait for Christ, Abraham went to heaven before Christ.
What you mean, the Word says Abraham believed God, that is True Faith with works, not the faith of devils.
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
You erroneously point to Genesis 26:5 as the verse in which God imputed righteousness to Abraham. However, when we read God's Word, we find God imputed righteousness to Abraham in Genesis 15:6.
Genesis 15:6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [God] counted it [Abraham's faith] to him [Abraham] for righteousness.
It appears you do not like faith being the sole basis for God to impute righteousness. You want God to impute righteousness to you due to your own works ... sad
Again, let's read Genesis 26:2-5 ...
Genesis 26:
2 And the LORD appeared unto him [Isaac], and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Because Abraham obeyed God, Abraham was blessed with land (all these countries - vs 3).
That is not the issue, DanielLL.DanielLL said:
The issue is whether righteousness was imputed due to Abraham's faith as shown in Genesis 15:6 (yes)
or whether righteousness was imputed to Abraham because Abraham obeyed God's voice, kept God's charge, commandments, statutes, laws as shown in Genesis 26:5 (no - Abraham was blessed with land (the all these countries of Gen 26:3) because Abraham obeyed God, kept God's charge, commandments, statutes, laws).
again ... let's let Scripture tell us why Abraham was declared righteousDanielLL said:
Genesis 15:6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [God] counted it [Abraham's faith] to him [Abraham] for righteousness.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.
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John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.brightfame52 said:
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
nope ...brightfame52 said:
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.
vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".
.
The Lord Jesus Christ came to take away the sin of all mankind, not just some subgroup (the "elect") you claim are the only ones for whom Christ came ...
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The justified ones are the whosoevers (John 3:16) who believe.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith ...
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No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
Jesus said so
I agree Abraham was justified by faith, but not apart from works. Because by dead faith shall no flesh be justified:
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Abraham believed God, means Abraham worked righteousness. If Abraham had no works, he would have no faith. The fact that Scripture says Abraham believed, proves Abraham was righteous and had True faith with works.
No man has ascended out of his own accord, or by his own power, no man has ascended to heaven without God, save God Himself:
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Because there are plenty of people who "went" to heaven already:
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Abraham was in heaven:
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Many people "go to heaven", they just don't ascend by themselves like Jesus did. People need Jesus to "go to heaven".
Then you do not believe what God wrote in Romans 4:
Romans 4:
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [NOTE: this verse makes clear that faith is NOT works]
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works [righteousness without works = faith / believing - vs 5]
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. [according to vs 5, righteousness is imputed when a person believes]
God attributed righteousness to Abraham solely because of Abraham's faith (Gen 15:6, Rom 4:3).DanielLL said:
Have you read the record in Heb 11 concerning the extent of Abraham's faith and the record reveals the "work" of Abraham:
Hebrews 11:
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
In vs 19, the word "accounting" is translated from the Greek word logizomai, the same word translated as "counted" in Rom 4:3 and 5, "reckoned" in Rom 4:4, "imputed" in Rom 4:6.
Go back and read the record in Genesis 22:1-14.
God had told Abraham that he would have a son and that his (Abraham's) descendants would be innumerable (Gen 15:5).
When Abraham offered up Isaac, Abraham's faith in God was so steadfast and unmovable that he believed God would raise up Isaac from the dead after he was sacrificed.
And now look at God's blessing to Abraham because Abraham's faith in God was so strong:
Genesis 22:
15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
God blessed Abraham and told him:
- God would bless Abraham
- God would multiply Abraham's descendants
- Abraham's descendants would possess the gates of his enemies
- All nations of the earth shall be blessed because Abraham obeyed God
Please note that God did not impute righteousness to Abraham because of Abraham's actions. God had already imputed righteousness to Abraham in Gen 15:6 because of Abraham's faith.
We don't get more "righteousness" when we do as God tells us ...
We receive God's grace and blessing for following God.
When we do not follow what God tells us, we receive the consequence of our unbelief.
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